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LunchCutter

Are Battleships all about luck?

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I'm in my New Mexico, I line up a Kongo at 8k sideon and fire every gun, most shells hit, I do 3k damage... He returns fire and hits me fore 30k.... I'm like 'yay my RNG luck..) I reload and return fire, again, 3k damage from multiple hits, he also fires back, 15k damage.. I'm aiming at his superstructure, shells are hitting him in the good spots but RNG is saying 'nope'. I end up dying for only wiping 10% off his health. Yet he completely blew me away, despite nearly all my shells hitting him and me having the initial advantage. Think I'll stick with HE, far less frustrating that all these zero damage pens..

Edited by LunchCutter

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Okay, the fact that you mentioned aiming for and hitting the SUPERSTRUCTURE tells me exactly what he was doing right and what you got wrong. See that Kongo wasn't getting normal hits, he was getting CITADEL hits, which do way more damage that can't be healed as easily. At range you want to do two things:

First, avoid sailing broadside. Keep your ship at an aggressive angle toward the enemy, basically turn juuuust enough from "going straight at them" that you can bring every gun you have to bear.
Second, shoot for the waterline dead-center. Against the majority of ships that is the best way to get at their vulnerable machine spaces and rack up the citadel damage. That's what will do someone in if they're sailing side-on for you and you're using AP.

Now if someone is HIDING their belt by coming straight at you or coming in at a steep enough angle that your shells just ricochet, that's when you go for superstructure hits or aim for the turrets. Basically you want to hit the flattest, but thickest armor you can whenever you shoot. Flat so it'll penetrate, thick because what's behind it is something they DON'T want to get blown up.

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Only part of playing a battleships is about luck. But for the most part, it's about aiming and positioning.

The better you aim, the more shells will land where you want to over time. If an enemy battleship shows its side at closer distances, don't fire at the superstructure, you'll only get overpens there, doing 10% of the damage you could have done. Fire at the water line and try to hit the citadel.
Do not show your broadside to enemy battleships (and some cruisers). Then they will hit YOUR citadel and doing these 15-30k salvos. Firing at angled or even bow on battleships will result in only dealing 2k-6k damage per salvo when hitting the superstructure, that's right. Firing at the bow will make your shells bounce if you can't overmatch it. You could use HE in that scenario, but it's often inferior to AP, unless you play the RN battleships.

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While RNG does randomize some elements, in many cases it really is down to skill. For example, Battleship caliber AP will never do any more than minimal damage against Superstructure. You need to aim for the Citadel, and you need to understand the armor protecting that citadel to understand where to aim.

Lets take the Kongo for example. The Kongo's armor scheme is rather interesting, it features a partial 'turtleback' citadel armor scheme. This means that at the forward and after sections beneath the turrets, the armor is sloped such that a shell that penetrates the outer belt in those sections is more likely to fail to penetrate the citadel, exploding in the casemates section of the ship. However, the central section, beneath the smokestacks, is a flat armored section, without the turtleback scheme that protects the  sections beneath the turrets, so if you're in a close range brawl with a Kongo, you want to aim to hit the Waterline beneath the smoke stacks. This gives your shell the best chance to penetrate through the citadel protection and score maximum damage.

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13 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

Okay, the fact that you mentioned aiming for and hitting the SUPERSTRUCTURE tells me exactly what he was doing right and what you got wrong. See that Kongo wasn't getting normal hits, he was getting CITADEL hits, which do way more damage that can't be healed as easily. At range you want to do two things:

First, avoid sailing broadside. Keep your ship at an aggressive angle toward the enemy, basically turn juuuust enough from "going straight at them" that you can bring every gun you have to bear.
Second, shoot for the waterline dead-center. Against the majority of ships that is the best way to get at their vulnerable machine spaces and rack up the citadel damage. That's what will do someone in if they're sailing side-on for you and you're using AP.

Now if someone is HIDING their belt by coming straight at you or coming in at a steep enough angle that your shells just ricochet, that's when you go for superstructure hits or aim for the turrets. Basically you want to hit the flattest, but thickest armor you can whenever you shoot. Flat so it'll penetrate, thick because what's behind it is something they DON'T want to get blown up.

^^^  :Smile_great: Aim at the waterline. It helps a lot!!!

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7 minutes ago, Schnitchelkid01_ said:

 

 

^^^  :Smile_great: Aim at the waterline. It helps a lot!!!

I'm in a New Mexico, this ships dispersion is comical and it's accuracy is abysmal 95% of the time, I missed a Omaha earlier at 5k, every single shell was on target but nothing hit... All shells flew over or splashed in front of him. My secondaries were having more luck and those gunners are blind drunk.

 You cannot aim it, you cannot target parts of a ship, you just point in the direction of the target and cross your fingers. Sometimes the shells will go in the vague direction where you are aiming, most of the time they will fly off in a random direction..

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Not really. Yeah, RNG plays a much bigger role in battleship performance than in any other ship, but there are also things you can do to improve your chances. For instance, aiming at the superstructure of a broadside ship is bad play. The New Mexico has 14" guns, and a lot of them. It also has a shotgun spread. If you aim too high, most of your shells will sail over your target and the rest will overpens the superstructure for little damage. You WILL penetrate the side of anything you shoot at. Aim for that citadel and your damage numbers will skyrocket. Even if you don't hit the citadel itself, normal pen damage is higher than overpen. Also, never show the side of your ship to an enemy battleship if you can avoid it. Always point your bow at them until they fire, then turn just enough to fire all your guns back at them, and immediately turn in again. Sometimes it's better to only fire your forward guns and avoid the risk of heavy damage. There's a lot of YouTube videos up on how to angle and attack. Watch them. I've watched hundreds of videos on various topics about just the mechanics of this game. It's good info. Take advantage of it. 

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1 minute ago, LunchCutter said:

I'm in a New Mexico, this ships dispersion is comical and it's accuracy is abysmal 95% of the time, I missed a Omaha earlier at 5k, every single shell was on target but nothing hit... All shells flew over or splashed in front of him. My secondaries were having more luck and those gunners are blind drunk.

 You cannot aim it, you cannot target parts of a ship, you just point in the direction of the target and cross your fingers. Sometimes the shells will go in the vague direction where you are aiming, most of the time they will fly off in a random direction..

That is true... I guess. Being a German BB captain I can say I've seen worse but I do get where you are coming from. It doesn't help that the American BB's are sluggish. However, at long ranges, it can be a struggle indeed.

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Here another tip , because your ship has turret on the back doesn't mean you should turn broadside to use them , it make me laugh when I play BB and they show me full broadside to use their gun when him angled against them while I only use the front to citadel them

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Another thing you can do is ripple fire the turrets, one at a time, at slightly different places on the ship.

Practice in coop.

 

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I do second the training room with the new mex. It is a shotgun. I usually aim 1/2 between waterline and deck, that assures a few shells towards citadel, a  deck pen, and a couple super structure hits. It seem to have best dispersion in the mid range 8-10, although ive had some amazing (rng) shots at 3 and at max spotter.

But specifically practice with the angle, i find best results right about where the third turret is just barely on target. At that point 2 of the 3 turrets seems to shoot well.

Unfortunately like most BBs the rear turret is usually dead on, where the 3 shells will pen the front and rear and the middle one will citadel and mid range. As long as you are paying attention you can fish tail out, shoot and re-angle between enemy salvos. This is kind of a trademark skill for US bbs more than some of the others. Of course it relies on synchronised or solo engagements.

Worst comes to worst, stack xp flags and camo and hit Op Aegis to gain quick xp to move past to Colorado. I just did a mission earlier to level up commander and got 15.5k for ship and 43.5 for commander on a 5 star win. It doesnt take long like that....

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3 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

I'm in a New Mexico, this ships dispersion is comical and it's accuracy is abysmal 95% of the time, I missed a Omaha earlier at 5k, every single shell was on target but nothing hit... All shells flew over or splashed in front of him. My secondaries were having more luck and those gunners are blind drunk.

 You cannot aim it, you cannot target parts of a ship, you just point in the direction of the target and cross your fingers. Sometimes the shells will go in the vague direction where you are aiming, most of the time they will fly off in a random direction..

Yes, with my New Mexico I've had six shells hit short & six hit long. In fact, I've seen this type of dispersion with all my BB's. Yesterday I smoked a Kongo with a broadside from my NM collecting 4 citadels & sinking it.

I've had issues at times with the auto-targeting changing targets while my shells are in flight from time to time. This happens when the ship I'm targeting disappears for a second then reappears.

Also rarely are you squared broadside to broadside. Yes, this makes a difference.

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Kinda? IMO your skill at aiming means the least in battleships over every other class simply due to dispersion (although skill is still very much important) as due to the nature of battleships a single bad roll on dispersion can mean the difference between success and defeat both due to the potential damage lost and the long reload which in clutch matches means you often won't get a second chance. Also the feedback to the player can be... confusing sometimes. For example say I aim at a broadsides bb's superstructure (for some reason) but every shell lands short. What information are you supposed to gather from that, to aim higher? And in more grey area examples it can be even harder to tell if your lead was wrong or if your guns just fluffed it.

At the end of the day, don't take a days performance at face value straight away, sometimes bb's miss everything, others they'll snipe full hp destroyers from 17 km away (i've done it before way back when i still played randoms don't worry about it ;p )

 

Also for those who say "just aim better" and "you can't possibly miss at this range"  I've mained battleships for 3 years, rng is entirely capable of destroying otherwise guaranteed shots, I've seen a few times where I can aim at close as 400 meters to a broadside target and still straddle them (shells land to their port and starboard) or other times where I don't deserve a shot because of bad aim or target yet still land a devastating blow.

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6 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

I'm in my New Mexico, I line up a Kongo at 8k sideon and fire every gun, most shells hit, I do 3k damage... He returns fire and hits me fore 30k.... I'm like 'yay my RNG luck..) I reload and return fire, again, 3k damage from multiple hits, he also fires back, 15k damage.. I'm aiming at his superstructure, shells are hitting him in the good spots but RNG is saying 'nope'. I end up dying for only wiping 10% off his health. Yet he completely blew me away, despite nearly all my shells hitting him and me having the initial advantage. Think I'll stick with HE, far less frustrating that all these zero damage pens..

Its not luck, it was a misplay from your side. Aparently you aimed at the wrong place and showed to much of your side and the Kongo aimed at the right place. A few things:

- If you took 30k from a Kongo, you were probably broadsided to the Kongo, try to keep you ship angles. By doing this you can bounce most/all shell and take no/little damage. 

- You were aiming at the superstructure. Dont. Aim at the water line, this is where you get the big dmg number. Aiming at the superstructure you mostly get overpens. Aiming at the water line you get citadels and pens getting much more dmg. 

- Overall, AP is the way to go in most BBs, mainly the USN ones. HE is limited to DDs and a few BBs that are too angled. 

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BB artillery relies a lot on RNGeus and not luck.  A BB can get a sexy full broadside, aim right, but have 90% of the shells hit in the water with the rest magically going high and hitting the superstructure for minimal damage.  Other times you can hit another BB at an obscure angle and get 2-3 cits on it.

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6 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

I'm in my New Mexico, I line up a Kongo at 8k sideon and fire every gun, most shells hit, I do 3k damage... He returns fire and hits me fore 30k.... I'm like 'yay my RNG luck..) I reload and return fire, again, 3k damage from multiple hits, he also fires back, 15k damage.. I'm aiming at his superstructure, shells are hitting him in the good spots but RNG is saying 'nope'. I end up dying for only wiping 10% off his health. Yet he completely blew me away, despite nearly all my shells hitting him and me having the initial advantage. Think I'll stick with HE, far less frustrating that all these zero damage pens..

Hey Lunchcutter,

As other captains have pointed out, when you are in a BB like the NM and you are aiming at a Kongo, make sure you are aiming at the waterline with AP. Let us talk about the New Mexico first, she is a "shotgun" style BB just the her IJN counterpart the Fuso. Accuracy wise she is not the best but you do your damage with volume of shells. I have played many battles in BBs so lets see if I can give you helpful tips =).

Tips:

  • First and foremost you will be shooting AP the majority of the time in BBs. Yes, there are cases where you will shoot HE (shooting at a bow on Yamato) but for the most part you will shoot AP and do good damage. We did recently change the amount of damage that AP does to destroyers (with a couple exceptions) to the equivalent of an overpen (10% of shell damage). I almost always shoot AP at all destroyers even after the change due to the guaranteed damage you get, HE is ok if you have time to switch to but BBs have long reloads even with expert loader captain skill. The other downside to HE is you sometimes will just knock out/destroy modules and not do any damage to the enemy ship. This of course is something you will learn over time in BBs.
  • When you are aiming at a broadside of any ship, aim for the waterline. That is where you will be able to do the most damage with your AP shells, just remember that angling is a thing (I will be covering that in my tips post in the near future).
  • Prioritize targets, as a BB player I will look for the squishy cruiser first and then the enemy BBs. You will also want to shoot at DDs, I see players say I can't hit a dd (you will never learn how if you never shoot at them. =).
  • Last but not least practice! There will be times you have the perfect shot lined up and oof RNG says no but the more you practice in BBs the more comfortable you will become!

I hope these help and I am sure other captains will have more tips/tricks to using BBs well!

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57 minutes ago, Kami said:

When you are aiming at a broadside of any ship, aim for the waterline.

I'd just like to add that if you know your BB has bad vertical dispersion, try shooting a little above the water line. I find that some BBs have a bad habit of putting most of their volley into the water if you don't aim a little bit above waterline. 

More reliable BB guns can aim right on it though.

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at tier 10 most BBs are accurate.

at lower tiers you depend on way too much luck if you are shooting at more 13+km.

if you are closer than 13km then your shots mostly land where you aim.

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Long story short...Aim for the waterline or slightly above...enjoy!

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In short, the impact locations of a perfectly aimed salvo depend on luck and nothing else.

However the results of the shell hits depend on the positioning (angle and distance) of the ship and the amount of damage and damage location the ship has already taken.

So the difference between a high win rate player and low win rate player is the maneuvering and positioning of the ships.

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9 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

I'm in a New Mexico, this ships dispersion is comical and it's accuracy is abysmal 95% of the time,

The NM has the high velocity 14" rifles. I've been RNG trolled with zero cits at full broadside. I changed to HE, then just logged out, relogged, and the cits was back. Probably just happenstance. It can be frustrating for sure. The dispersion, yes lol. 

As other people have posted positioning and aiming is very crucial. However that is with any BB pretty much. Only exception I would think would be the Yamato, Musashi, and possibly the Georgia? 18.1" rifles on the IJN and 18" on the Georgia if I'm not mistaken. They can overmatch anything in the game. 

Interesting enough I seem to recall the Warspite can overmatch any in it's tier and below? Seems I remember Jingles mentioning that on a YouTube video.

Edited by Capt_Ahab1776

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9 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

I'm in my New Mexico, I line up a Kongo at 8k sideon and fire every gun, most shells hit, I do 3k damage... He returns fire and hits me fore 30k.... I'm like 'yay my RNG luck..) I reload and return fire, again, 3k damage from multiple hits, he also fires back, 15k damage.. I'm aiming at his superstructure, shells are hitting him in the good spots but RNG is saying 'nope'. I end up dying for only wiping 10% off his health. Yet he completely blew me away, despite nearly all my shells hitting him and me having the initial advantage. Think I'll stick with HE, far less frustrating that all these zero damage pens..

Armor is important. You were aiming where your armor piercing shells either bounced or over penetrated his armor.

Against cruisers, this is largely irrelevant as even 14 inch guns can usually penetrate.

But against BBs, you need to do some homework on where to shoot them and when.

Do use HE. If you are being hunted by a DD, being able to turn that shotgun on him with big HE shells can be devastating.

If you are bottom tier and facing off against a higher tier enemy battleship that isnt giving you good shots at armor you can penetrate, shoot HE at his upper deck. You will at least get some damage in as you try to kite.

Watch YouTube videos from Business6 to learn how to brawl. Once the range shortens inside secondary range...wait for the ability to citadel your opponent. Pre swing the guns to the side you expect to pass him...wait for the shot and let him blast away at your angled armor. As he passes, pump all 12 shells into his magazine.

9 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

I'm in a New Mexico, this ships dispersion is comical and it's accuracy is abysmal 95% of the time, I missed a Omaha earlier at 5k, every single shell was on target but nothing hit... All shells flew over or splashed in front of him. My secondaries were having more luck and those gunners are blind drunk.

 You cannot aim it, you cannot target parts of a ship, you just point in the direction of the target and cross your fingers. Sometimes the shells will go in the vague direction where you are aiming, most of the time they will fly off in a random direction..

At range, she is definitely frustrating.

Up close though, much different. Enemies who think they want to brawl will find her much tougher than they thought. 

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This game is 50% about luck and 50% about skills.

No matters aiming right if sometimes the rng hate you.

But sometimes you can great dmg without even try aiming if the rng bless you.

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Battleship guns are a dice roll, but by aiming correctly you can make it so you're playing with loaded dice.

Angling, positioning and target selection are all skill based BB decisions.

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13 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

I'm in my New Mexico, I line up a Kongo at 8k sideon and fire every gun, most shells hit, I do 3k damage... I'm aiming at his superstructure

Watch some video guides, or read the wiki. You need to learn the basics.

And no, it isn't all luck. Even dispersion does nothing to hamper good players in the long run. People that say that BB dispersion makes aim unimportant simply don't understand how dispersion works. 

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