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DevBlog: Graf Zeppelin and Hakuryu changes

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A WG DevBlog entry for some changes coming up for Graf Zeppelin and Hakuryu.

https://www.facebook.com/wowsdevblog/posts/2351631258496541

ST, changes to Graf Zeppelin and Hakuryu

Graf Zeppelin bombers got several improvements:

- Armor penetration increased by 11 mm.
- Attack time increased from 6 to 8 s.
- Bomb falling speed increased by 13%.
- Inner and outer ellipses slightly reduced in size.

Due to the behavior of the aircraft at the beginning of the attack, the use of Graf Zeppelin dive bombers is noticeably different from the dive bombers of other aircraft carriers. These changes will make the use of Graf Zeppelin squadrons more comfortable.

Hakuryu’s alternative J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 torpedo bombers also got some improvements:

- Attack preparation time reduced from 5 to 2.5 s.
- Aiming speed during preparation increased.
- Attack time lowered from 10 to 8 seconds.
- Torpedo arming range reduced from 1182 m to 698 m.
- The smallest possible spread of torpedoes slightly reduced.
- Time between attacks decreased from 4 to 2 s.
- The Repair consumable regenerates half the HP that it does on the standard torpedo bombers.
- Damage reduction during attacks removed.
- Unlike other squadrons, J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 are vulnerable to AA fire at all stages of the attack, but the squadron returns under the player's control immediately after the drop.

Hakuryu offers two concepts of torpedo bombers: the main ones imply standard use, and the alternative ones encourage attacking from a distance. The changes will increase the effectiveness of the second option. Hakuryu J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 will be most effective as a ranged weapon which requires more skill. If used correctly, they will reward the player with great damage due to each flight’s 4 torpedoes. Consider their vulnerability: when entering the middle AA zone, the entire squadron is likely to be lost.

Changes to Hakuryu can be tested on the Public test for 0.8.4.

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

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Newsflash. The buffs won't do you a damn bit of good on the Graf. Wanna know why?

 

The global changes to how the Engine Cooling(Boost) consumable works. You're losing a metric butt-ton of top speed on all of the Graf's planes which it relies on to help reduce incoming AA fire. Enjoy your scraps they're throwing you while they feast on the hog right in front of your starving bellies.

And to think I was almost ready to buy the GZ for collection purposes.

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dammit why the hell those 2 carriers getting buffs in particular? carriers all across the board in general deserved to get buffed especially since there WILL be an added delay time in 0.8.4. RTS had that high alpha but was offset because of the delay time so this should too.

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14 minutes ago, The_Big_Red_1 said:

dammit why the hell those 2 carriers getting buffs in particular? 

as a distraction./

WG throws scraps to the crowd so we are too busy arguing to pay attention to the important stuff (speed reductions, takeoff delays and so forth). Why only GZ of the t8s? probably because it is the only t8 premium to have been nerfed at every micro ad major patch since 0.8.0/

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16 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

as a distraction./

WG throws scraps to the crowd so we are too busy arguing to pay attention to the important stuff (speed reductions, takeoff delays and so forth). Why only GZ of the t8s? probably because it is the only t8 premium to have been nerfed at every micro ad major patch since 0.8.0/

that is a real scummy nickel-dime-bait-and-switch d1ck tactic even for WG. EA and Epic would be so proud of WG for doing that.

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3 minutes ago, The_Big_Red_1 said:

that is a real scummy nickel-dime-bait-and-switch d1ck tactic even for WG. EA and Epic would be so proud of WG for doing that.

For some reason, (many years watching WG at work..) I doubt it is deliberate, the company cannot help itself, it is part of the DNA.

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1 minute ago, LoveBote said:

For some reason, (many years watching WG at work..) I doubt it is deliberate, the company cannot help itself, it is part of the DNA.

the day WG becomes "another EA" will be a sad day. i invested so much time and money into this game and to see it become a victim of it own success it's gonna break my heart when i have to cease my "investment" fundings to WG and take it elsewhere to better pastures like towards CDPR for instance....

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27 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

as a distraction./

WG throws scraps to the crowd so we are too busy arguing to pay attention to the important stuff (speed reductions, takeoff delays and so forth). Why only GZ of the t8s? probably because it is the only t8 premium to have been nerfed at every micro ad major patch since 0.8.0/

Are you sure this isn't a Nerf in disguise? The extra bomb speed is gonna cause a lot of overpens, especially on cruisers. It's not like the bomb is going to do more than 7k damage on a Citadel after the change.

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16 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Are you sure this isn't a Nerf in disguise?

of course it is a nerf, badly disguised. As I state, the AP bomber changes are scraps, crumbs thrown for the birds, a distraction to cause confusion (which is why we are having this conversation!).

sometimes I wonder if WOWS community and dev management don't take their inspiration from real world culture wars.

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20 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

of course it is a nerf, badly disguised. As I state, the AP bomber changes are scraps, crumbs thrown for the birds, a distraction to cause confusion (which is why we are having this conversation!).

sometimes I wonder if WOWS community and dev management don't take their inspiration from real world culture wars.

really? i never really thought about that. goddam u WG for tricking me like that. now my confidence in them is at an all down low. them russians better start taking notes from CDPR's playbook if they are going win my trust back. once it's gone it's going to be really difficult to get it back. FFS why isn't WG making any effort to fly to Warsaw, Poland? it's literally next to Russia according to the dam map. is it really THAT HARD for WG to make the time to buy planes tickets to fly from Minsk to Warsaw to learn from the video game masters of long-term business/customer management and ethics?!?

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On 5/8/2019 at 2:44 AM, LoveBote said:

of course it is a nerf, badly disguised. As I state, the AP bomber changes are scraps, crumbs thrown for the birds, a distraction to cause confusion (which is why we are having this conversation!).

sometimes I wonder if WOWS community and dev management don't take their inspiration from real world culture wars.

I agree that it is going to be a nerf against CL.. who even bothered against DDs  But this may actually give us some more consistent citadels against BB and maybe some CA?     The engine cooling/boost is going to a big deal with GZ particularly.       

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4 hours ago, RA6E_ said:

But this may actually give us some more consistent citadels against BB and maybe some CA?     The engine cooling/boost is going to a big deal with GZ particularly.       

I have never had issues with GZ AP bombs versus bbs, and have become quite accustomed to the drop pattern, its strengths and weaknesses, attack pattern and various drop heights for max effectiveness/

the alpha dmg is too low, but then that is the rework curse, all CVs suffer from that/

At face value the change is a nonsense, or covering for something else, something unpublished. It will further reduce (i.e nerf) the ability of Graf to adapt and counter differing threats, encouraging a more narrow focus on BBs, will not help it win battles.

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I have played the GZ alot since I bought it and several times since the changes and to me this is an all around nerf.  The speed change is massive and has alot of issue resulting from it like lower survivability when they are already very fragile planes.  However, they say they buffed the dive bombers but I disagree.  Something isn't right.  I used to get about 3-5 citadels on average per game.  Now I have gotten 1 total over multiple games.  The reticle is not noticeably smaller to me, however they way the dive pattern has been adjusted causes the reticle to suddenly and violently jump forward, causing huge inaccuracy issues.  Additionally, the bombs fall more to the edges of the reticle now so I almost never hit both bombs anymore.  I usually miss with one or ricochet with one and hit with the other.  I think something has changed with the angle of the bombs or something.  I can't think of anything else. 

Overall, I can't speak for the other changes but the GZ changes have basically ruined the entire ship for me.  I hope they do something to fix it because after dropping $50 dang bucks on it, I am pretty pissed I can't do anything but piddly little 2k torp hits to enemy ships since the dive bombers usually do 800 or some such.  

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On 6/1/2019 at 5:27 PM, Augsberger said:

I have played the GZ alot since I bought it and several times since the changes and to me this is an all around nerf.  The speed change is massive and has alot of issue resulting from it like lower survivability when they are already very fragile planes.  However, they say they buffed the dive bombers but I disagree.  Something isn't right.  I used to get about 3-5 citadels on average per game.  Now I have gotten 1 total over multiple games.  The reticle is not noticeably smaller to me, however they way the dive pattern has been adjusted causes the reticle to suddenly and violently jump forward, causing huge inaccuracy issues.  Additionally, the bombs fall more to the edges of the reticle now so I almost never hit both bombs anymore.  I usually miss with one or ricochet with one and hit with the other.  I think something has changed with the angle of the bombs or something.  I can't think of anything else. 

Overall, I can't speak for the other changes but the GZ changes have basically ruined the entire ship for me.  I hope they do something to fix it because after dropping $50 dang bucks on it, I am pretty pissed I can't do anything but piddly little 2k torp hits to enemy ships since the dive bombers usually do 800 or some such.  

Ya know... I was always under the impression that WG wasn't allowed to nerf premiums. For legal reasons otherwise they could get nailed with  class action lawsuits. But they can buff premiums. Like the Atago's rudder was buffed years ago and given a heal...

I find carriers to be really low damage anemic ships in general. I can do 150,000 damage in anyT6  DD, BB, or CL/CA... but for some reason I cant get past 80,000 damage on a T6 carrier...

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On 6/1/2019 at 7:27 PM, Augsberger said:

I have played the GZ alot since I bought it and several times since the changes and to me this is an all around nerf.  The speed change is massive and has alot of issue resulting from it like lower survivability when they are already very fragile planes.  However, they say they buffed the dive bombers but I disagree.  Something isn't right.  I used to get about 3-5 citadels on average per game.  Now I have gotten 1 total over multiple games.  The reticle is not noticeably smaller to me, however they way the dive pattern has been adjusted causes the reticle to suddenly and violently jump forward, causing huge inaccuracy issues.  Additionally, the bombs fall more to the edges of the reticle now so I almost never hit both bombs anymore.  I usually miss with one or ricochet with one and hit with the other.  I think something has changed with the angle of the bombs or something.  I can't think of anything else. 

Overall, I can't speak for the other changes but the GZ changes have basically ruined the entire ship for me.  I hope they do something to fix it because after dropping $50 dang bucks on it, I am pretty pissed I can't do anything but piddly little 2k torp hits to enemy ships since the dive bombers usually do 800 or some such.  

From playing around with my Graf last night, I was able to get citadels by coming in from the side of the ship, and dropping the bombs before the reticle jumps forward, around 4.5secs left in the attack run. Was able to farm a Sinop for 6 citadels in one game.

Edited by DemonGod3

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On 6/9/2019 at 10:18 AM, DemonGod3 said:

From playing around with my Graf last night, I was able to get citadels by coming in from the side of the ship, and dropping the bombs before the reticle jumps forward, around 4.5secs left in the attack run. Was able to farm a Sinop for 6 citadels in one game.

I will try this, however this is still frustrating.  The main advantage of the dive bombers is that you should be able to attack from any angle to compensate for the low number of bombs. I have also noticed alot more overpens because of the increase in penetration which is also a nerf.  Overall it has been a terrible change.

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1 hour ago, Augsberger said:

I will try this, however this is still frustrating.  The main advantage of the dive bombers is that you should be able to attack from any angle to compensate for the low number of bombs. I have also noticed alot more overpens because of the increase in penetration which is also a nerf.  Overall it has been a terrible change.

Reason I say come from the side is because the bombs seem to drift the the left and right of your attack.

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On 6/10/2019 at 5:33 PM, DemonGod3 said:

Reason I say come from the side is because the bombs seem to drift the the left and right of your attack.

I agree.  It is a way of helping.  The necessity of doing so however defeats the purpose of having a circular and thus omni-directional reticle.

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Just now, Augsberger said:

I agree.  It is a way of helping.  The necessity of doing so however defeats the purpose of having a circular and thus omni-directional reticle.

True enough, but take heart, more buffs are being tested.

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Good...both of these CVs are performing pretty badly :( 

 

The graf AP bombers, while I can get them to work, are still extremely dodgy to use "effectively". I just have to stick with torpedoes till they fix them. 

Hak definitely needs love...it far under performs next to the Midway and the Audacious. 

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