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warheart1992

12th Ranked Season: The Less Bad, the Bad, and the Real Ugly.

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So, recently on the Dev Blog it was announced (WiP of course: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/188903-st-12th-ranked-season/) that the upcoming Ranked season would be tier X, would be the first to feature CVs after the rework (hard capped to 1 per team), follow similar rules to the previous Ranked Season ( possibly a shorter duration, irrevocable ranks stop at Rank 12) The number of ranks and steel doesn't change compared to the 11th season. In addition, to give the ability to people without a tier X to play Ranked, rental ships will be provided for those who play battles in tier VIII ships

Quote

Similar to Clan battles, rental ships for ranked battles are introduced for the case where you don't have tier X ships but you want to try ranked battles. These ships will be given for battles on a certain class, so the rental destroyer may be obtained after a battle on a tier VIII or higher destroyer. This will let players use their already obtained skills. Battle results with rental ships won't count for the ranked emblem progress and you can't get battle achievements with them.

 

Disclaimer

Before we get started, all this is in Development and could very well change; the purpose of the post is to show why if there’s no change this Ranked Season is a pretty bad idea. Obviously this is a subjective opinion.

 

The Less Bad: CVs.

Many will disagree on whether CVs are the worst thing or not that could happen for Ranked right now. Personally I don’t think it’s the worst, though still issues remain.

Nothing is certain right now on AA balance or the future of CV rework in general. Some DDs in addition are pretty poorly equipped to deal with CVs at that tier (especially Midway) in a mode where objective control is very important. That said the 45 second launch delay that CVs should have by then might improve things. Still, I forsee a pretty “AA-centric” meta, with Grozovoi, Harugumo and Gearing being pretty popular and “safe” choices DD wise for example.

That said, WG is with it’s back against the wall on the matter. It’s 3 months after the rework, CVs need to slowly take their spot in competitive modes and stop being the “leper” class. On the other hand, if WG doesn’t include CVs, it’s practically admitting failure with the CV-rework, something which would hurt the company in many ways, not just economically.

In addition, due to constant player requests the tier VIII premium CVs became available recently, with quite likely many sales. This in turn leads to the issue of someone without half a clue being able to buy a CV, playing Ranked and potentially dooming his team due to inexperience.  Regarding that danger, I don’t know how many such cases exist or how many will try Ranked, though I get the feeling they wouldn’t be that many.

 

The Bad:  Ranks

If the upcoming Season follows the rules of the previous one, then the last irrevocable rank will be Rank 12.  While it was a nuisance last Season, the Arms Race mode and the use for the first time of Tier IXs made it somewhat bearable. But now we also have to deal with CVs and most importantly Rentals as I will touch upon later. There are so many random factors to take into account that this is simply a sink of signals, camos, and credits. Of course this is one of the reasons behind doing a Tier X Ranked Season, yet that doesn’t mean it isn’t unhealthy.

 

The Real Ugly: Rentals

Rentals, while good in theory are pretty bad in practice in my opinion. Personally I consider that the worst addition in Ranked. Not only do you get somewhat inferior ships (can’t equip camo), but also if they rotate similarly to how the Clan rentals work, that means you will be having to play ships very ill suited for the current meta. This in turn can lead to a pretty bad experience. In addition this completely trumps the whole “it’s tier X so no player can buy his way in” since you can still buy a premium, play a battle, unlock a tier X rental then play.

The way I read this is as an attempt to give new players a dose of tier X and get them hooked onto rushing to get to that tier. If this is combined with a “grind boost” package like the recent one for IJN BBs, even more inexperienced players will try getting at tier X. This will not only further ruin high tiers, but will make tier X more populous on the long run, creating possibly an even worse environment for Tier VIII.

 

The Combo of absolute Bad:

The worst to come out of all this however is that this is a combination of “features” for Ranked. You get 3 individually lesser issues and combine into a much bigger one to create a pretty toxic environment for anyone wanting to try his hand at competitive. And because of the Steel prizes, many will try and play Ranked and only end up getting frustrated.

 

P.S As an addendum to the whole section of “Bad”, let’s not forget to mention the danger of players active in CB burning out due to the new Season requiring also tier Xs.

 

Any Good?

This is my take on what we know about Ranked, how some issues will arise and why it ain’t such a good idea to go forth as is. In that vein thought of a couple of solutions, nothing groundbreaking really, that could help make 12th Season that bit more bearable.

  1. .       Do a split Season, with Ranks until 12 using tier VIIIs, then until Rank 1 tier Xs. This has been already done with not much negativity as far as I remember. Ditch the Rentals while at it too. 
  2.         Add one more irrevocable Rank, at 5 or 6. This will make lower ranks feel less stressful by eliminating the danger of finding yourself again at Rank 12 due to silly RNG and Rentals.
  3.         Try and focus a lot on tuning AA before Ranked begins; Good CV players can avoid most flak damage whereas bad ones have their planes absolutely slaughtered.

Anyway, I know this is pretty early to go all about sky falling and apocalyptic posts, yet too many bad foundations can lead to the upcoming Ranked season simply crumbling and earning another round of the playerbase’s ire, deservedly so.

 

Hope we can have a good discussion and thanks for the read :Smile_honoring:.

 

 

Edited by warheart1992
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I will probably need to run my Salem a lot this season since it does burn planes out the sky, and it’s super heal keeps up with damage quite nicely.

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5 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

There are so many random factors to take into account that this is simply a sink of signals, camos, and credits.

This is why I spent coal on the Salem.

I think it will be interesting to see what happens with the rentals. They have to try these things or the game will stagnate.

I would also prefer a return to the T8/10 split.

We could argue about where the last irrevocable rank should be until we're blue in the face, and everyone will have their (likely quite valid) opinions. 

8 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

will make tier X more populous on the long run, creating possibly an even worse environment for Tier VIII.

Or make high tiers populous enough that they won't have to reach down that far to fill the queue?

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I think CVs will be OK?   I'm sure it's going to bring on the continued shitestorm, due to further challenging of the DD heavy meta that every other ranked season has been.   But it does make cruisers way more viable as well.   So will definitely,  I expect move away from the BB/DD spamfest it has been?  We'll see it looks like.     I'm not going to lie... the thought of rental CVs is pretty dam scary.. As a CV rework proponent the thought of new to the class players jumping into one and being matched against skilled player in CVs....  Meh.... I don't see how that goes well?   And it certainly won't help anyone's attitude towards current CV status.   

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At the end of the day, T8 players using rental T10s are just as bad as the average player with their T10s so it is such a small difference it likely won't matter. As for CVs, yes that would be terrible. As for irrevocable ranks, despite the randomness it is still good to have the last irrevocable be far far far from r1 so we don't have people ranking out with 45% winrates so often.

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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Or make high tiers populous enough that they won't have to reach down that far to fill the queue?

Depends on your viewpoint. Am more of a  glass half empty guy at that point :fish_boom:

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29 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

In addition, due to constant player requests the tier VIII premium CVs became available recently, with quite likely many sales. This in turn leads to the issue of someone without half a clue being able to buy a CV, playing Ranked and potentially dooming his team due to inexperience.  Regarding that danger, I don’t know how many such cases exist or how many will try Ranked, though I get the feeling they wouldn’t be that many.

This. The game will be determined 80 percent of the time on who will be the worse CV player. This has happened in prior times in rank and I see no reason why it wouldn't change now.

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I don't have a problem with rentals, if a player can advance with a rental, all the more power to them. 

My problem with the rentals is why WG feels the need for ranked rentals now. We've seen 3 separate seasons of t10 ranked lately. The percentage of total random games played with t10s is at an all time high. It would have made more sense to do it for earlier seasons of t10 ranked. 

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Just now, Ducky_shot said:

I don't have a problem with rentals, if a player can advance with a rental, all the more power to them. 

My problem with the rentals is why WG feels the need for ranked rentals now. We've seen 3 separate seasons of t10 ranked lately. The percentage of total random games played with t10s is at an all time high. It would have made more sense to do it for earlier seasons of t10 ranked. 

The reason why the WG is pushing for T10 is that they want more players (bad or not) playing T10. It's been the goal for WG since the push for clan battles.It's one thing to be playing rentals in CB since you're in communication with other tm members. Quite another thing when you're lumped randomly. A player playing a rental is the one normally first focused on in CB. Why should it be any different in Ranked?

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55 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

 

So, recently on the Dev Blog it was announced (WiP of course: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/188903-st-12th-ranked-season/) that the upcoming Ranked season would be tier X, would be the first to feature CVs after the rework (hard capped to 1 per team), follow similar rules to the previous Ranked Season ( possibly a shorter duration, irrevocable ranks stop at Rank 12) The number of ranks and steel doesn't change compared to the 11th season. In addition, to give the ability to people without a tier X to play Ranked, rental ships will be provided for those who play battles in tier VIII ships

 

Disclaimer

Before we get started, all this is in Development and could very well change; the purpose of the post is to show why if there’s no change this Ranked Season is a pretty bad idea. Obviously this is a subjective opinion.

 

The Less Bad: CVs.

Many will disagree on whether CVs are the worst thing or not that could happen for Ranked right now. Personally I don’t think it’s the worst, though still issues remain.

Nothing is certain right now on AA balance or the future of CV rework in general. Some DDs in addition are pretty poorly equipped to deal with CVs at that tier (especially Midway) in a mode where objective control is very important. That said the 45 second launch delay that CVs should have by then might improve things. Still, I forsee a pretty “AA-centric” meta, with Grozovoi, Harugumo and Gearing being pretty popular and “safe” choices DD wise for example.

That said, WG is with it’s back against the wall on the matter. It’s 3 months after the rework, CVs need to slowly take their spot in competitive modes and stop being the “leper” class. On the other hand, if WG doesn’t include CVs, it’s practically admitting failure with the CV-rework, something which would hurt the company in many ways, not just economically.

In addition, due to constant player requests the tier VIII premium CVs became available recently, with quite likely many sales. This in turn leads to the issue of someone without half a clue being able to buy a CV, playing Ranked and potentially dooming his team due to inexperience.  Regarding that danger, I don’t know how many such cases exist or how many will try Ranked, though I get the feeling they wouldn’t be that many.

 

The Bad:  Ranks

If the upcoming Season follows the rules of the previous one, then the last irrevocable rank will be Rank 12.  While it was a nuisance last Season, the Arms Race mode and the use for the first time of Tier IXs made it somewhat bearable. But now we also have to deal with CVs and most importantly Rentals as I will touch upon later. There are so many random factors to take into account that this is simply a sink of signals, camos, and credits. Of course this is one of the reasons behind doing a Tier X Ranked Season, yet that doesn’t mean it isn’t unhealthy.

 

The Real Ugly: Rentals

Rentals, while good in theory are pretty bad in practice in my opinion. Personally I consider that the worst addition in Ranked. Not only do you get somewhat inferior ships (can’t equip camo), but also if they rotate similarly to how the Clan rentals work, that means you will be having to play ships very ill suited for the current meta. This in turn can lead to a pretty bad experience. In addition this completely trumps the whole “it’s tier X so no player can buy his way in” since you can still buy a premium, play a battle, unlock a tier X rental then play.

The way I read this is as an attempt to give new players a dose of tier X and get them hooked onto rushing to get to that tier. If this is combined with a “grind boost” package like the recent one for IJN BBs, even more inexperienced players will try getting at tier X. This will not only further ruin high tiers, but will make tier X more populous on the long run, creating possibly an even worse environment for Tier VIII.

 

The Combo of absolute Bad:

The worst to come out of all this however is that this is a combination of “features” for Ranked. You get 3 individually lesser issues and combine into a much bigger one to create a pretty toxic environment for anyone wanting to try his hand at competitive. And because of the Steel prizes, many will try and play Ranked and only end up getting frustrated.

 

P.S As an addendum to the whole section of “Bad”, let’s not forget to mention the danger of players active in CB burning out due to the new Season requiring also tier Xs.

 

Any Good?

This is my take on what we know about Ranked, how some issues will arise and why it ain’t such a good idea to go forth as is. In that vein thought of a couple of solutions, nothing groundbreaking really, that could help make 12th Season that bit more bearable.

  1. .       Do a split Season, with Ranks until 12 using tier VIIIs, then until Rank 1 tier Xs. This has been already done with not much negativity as far as I remember. Ditch the Rentals while at it too. 
  2.         Add one more irrevocable Rank, at 5 or 6. This will make lower ranks feel less stressful by eliminating the danger of finding yourself again at Rank 12 due to silly RNG and Rentals.
  3.         Try and focus a lot on tuning AA before Ranked begins; Good CV players can avoid most flak damage whereas bad ones have their planes absolutely slaughtered.

Anyway, I know this is pretty early to go all about sky falling and apocalyptic posts, yet too many bad foundations can lead to the upcoming Ranked season simply crumbling and earning another round of the playerbase’s ire, deservedly so.

 

Hope we can have a good discussion and thanks for the read :Smile_honoring:.

 

 

Sir. The Majority of people play WOW because the love surface battles. The last thing this majority wants is more CV's involved in every part of the game. Ranked and clan battles included. Alot of good players have left the game or play co op only. I am an average player but I do spend money on the game. If CV's are involved, I will not be taking part in ranked battles this season. Until we have an opt out option regarding CV's My wallet is closed. Money does talk eventually. Why do the minority insist on FORCING people to play against CV's when the reason they joined WOW was to play surface battles? And believe me, The complaning against CV's will not stop until something is done to correct the issue.

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2 minutes ago, GSXstage1 said:

Sir. The Majority of people play WOW because the love surface battles. The last thing this majority wants is more CV's involved in every part of the game. Ranked and clan battles included. Alot of good players have left the game or play co op only. I am an average player but I do spend money on the game. If CV's are involved, I will not be taking part in ranked battles this season. Until we have an opt out option regarding CV's My wallet is closed. Money does talk eventually. Why do the minority insist on FORCING people to play against CV's when the reason they joined WOW was to play surface battles? And believe me, The complaning against CV's will not stop until something is done to correct the issue.

Carriers have been a part of WoWS since the very beginning.  And I full expect them to be in the game until the very end, whenever that might  be.  WoWS was never only a surface combat game.  Deal with it.

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15 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Carriers have been a part of WoWS since the very beginning.  And I full expect them to be in the game until the very end, whenever that might  be.  WoWS was never only a surface combat game.  Deal with it.

This sums up my opinion on CVs rather nicely. Pre-rework, the glimpse of what WoWS is at its heart wasn't those games with no CVs, but those games with CVs. I'd go so far as to say plenty of ships were balanced around AA being important. Musashi has some of the worst AA tier for tier, and is also horribly strong because of it. DDs have anemic AA by and large, but can often avoid detection.

It was those games with CVs that often got me to build for AA, as range is the most important buff to AA. Sure, those 9 games with no CVs I was at a slight disadvantage, but that 1 I was at a significant advantage, allowing me to more easily protect my team and win a given match. I even had an AA Katori. Yes, an AA Katori. Why? Because shock factor. She shot down planes fairly well, as the enemy CV never expected that. Couple this with a slower ship, and she was often the CV's target, which made taking out planes that much sweeter. But my babies were Texas and T6 Cleveland. I loved Cleveland, and still miss her dearly...

Still, if one thinks playing DDs under the current CV meta is bad, those games where I was a DD in a CV match with a competent red CV pre-rework were so, so much worse. The first time I got a CV match with torp reload booster equipped was when I truly began to respect smoke, and it was a harsh lesson on how to play a DD. But I learned it, and was better for it. It taught me not to be seen by the CVs. Ever, if possible. Don't get me wrong, I push and push hard in my DDs, but the CV will usually only spot me properly near the end of a given match, and often only when I am close to said CV. I don't hunt them, as doing so is a waste of time for a CV, let alone a DD, but if I find them while flipping distant caps, sure, I'll try my luck.

Edited by Shoggoth_pinup

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2 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

This sums up my opinion on CVs rather nicely. Pre-rework, the glimpse of what WoWS is at its heart wasn't those games with no CVs, but those games with CVs. I'd go so far as to say plenty of ships were balanced around AA being important. Musashi has some of the worst AA tier for tier, and is also horribly strong because of it. DDs have anemic AA by and large, but can often avoid detection.

If you think playing DDs under the current CV meta is bad, those games where I was a DD in a CV match with a competent red CV pre-rework were so, so much worse. The first time I got a CV match with torp reload booster equipped was when I truly began to respect smoke, and it was a harsh lesson on how to play a DD. But I learned it, and was better for it. It taught me not to be seen by the CVs. Ever, if possible. Don't get me wrong, I push and push hard in my DDs, but the CV will usually only spot me properly near the end of a given match, and often only when I am close to said CV. I don't hunt them, as doing so is a waste of time for a CV, let alone a DD, but if I find them while flipping distant caps, sure, I'll try my luck.

Indeed.  I think that playing CVs under the old RTS system was far, FAR worse.  Many more squadrons available to search for you.  Also, a CV could send one squadron to look for you without seriously affecting its ability to continue with strikes, at least at higher tiers.  And when they did find you, you were perma spotted, whether the planes had ammo or not.  And when the CV wanted your DD dead, you were almost always dead, if the CV player had any talent.  You'd get cross dropped or DB'd into oblivion.  You might have had some chance if you were one of those very strong AA DDs, with a strong AA build, and a DefAA charge ready to go.  

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

This is why I spent coal on the Salem.

I think it will be interesting to see what happens with the rentals. They have to try these things or the game will stagnate.

I would also prefer a return to the T8/10 split.

We could argue about where the last irrevocable rank should be until we're blue in the face, and everyone will have their (likely quite valid) opinions. 

Or make high tiers populous enough that they won't have to reach down that far to fill the queue?

Why do you think they are giving rentals?

Most players never make tier 10 in this game, WG somehow thinks that showing them how bad top tier is, will sell them on it....:Smile_teethhappy:

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29 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

The reason why the WG is pushing for T10 is that they want more players (bad or not) playing T10. It's been the goal for WG since the push for clan battles.It's one thing to be playing rentals in CB since you're in communication with other tm members. Quite another thing when you're lumped randomly. A player playing a rental is the one normally first focused on in CB. Why should it be any different in Ranked?

But there are more people with t10s now than in the previous seasons. So if they want to push people to play t10, then why didnt they have rentals in ranked before now. Your argument only makes sense if they had put rentals in the first season they had t10. 

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2 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

But there are more people with t10s now than in the previous seasons. So if they want to push people to play t10, then why didnt they have rentals in ranked before now. Your argument only makes sense if they had put rentals in the first season they had t10. 

Not enough so that you'd get T8's being sucked into T10 matches. I suspect the rentals was an idea they tried out  in clan battles to encourage players to play CB if they don't have a T10. So they're going to try it out again in Ranked. if you look at the various missions such as the Unique Upgrades, it's to entice people into playing T10's. 

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1 hour ago, warheart1992 said:

Some DDs in addition are pretty poorly equipped to deal with CVs at that tier (especially Midway) in a mode where objective control is very important. That said the 45 second launch delay that CVs should have by then might improve things. Still, I forsee a pretty “AA-centric” meta, with Grozovoi, Harugumo and Gearing being pretty popular and “safe” choices DD wise for example.

Groz does have good AA, but Harugumo is surprisingly "meh" and Gearing is coasting solely on its previous reputation at this point.  Try to chase a Midway down with one if you don't believe me.

T10 ranked meta was already very rough on destroyers.  Very difficult to have any major impact on the battle.  You spot good and hope your team shoots better than theirs, and you don't save your star if you lose.  Very few players were able to rank out with DDs in the last season.

Now... add in planes*, and carrier captains looking for easy, xp rich targets, not to mention taking away a lot of the spotting work the DD might have been doing... taking a DD into ranked is going to be utterly pointless.

 

*yes I know strictly speaking carriers have always been eligible for ranked play.  However, typically they've seen a usage rate of something like 0.5%.  I expect that to be quite different this season if random battles are any indication.

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Carriers have been a part of WoWS since the very beginning.  And I full expect them to be in the game until the very end, whenever that might  be.  WoWS was never only a surface combat game.  Deal with it.

See,,He says deal with it. No Sir.. We Won't. Will will continue to protest and complain about the CV isuue. If I don't want to play with CV's, I have to play co-op or tier 1 to 3 only. Thats 4 classes of ships I cant play past tier 3. A CV player has the option of player other class of warships so it is not a compairable issue and it's holy unfair to the majority of players. So either we stop supporting WG with funds or the install an opt out option regarding CV's. When that time comes Sir. You deal with it!

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I haven't ranked out a single season.  In fact there have been several that I didn't even participate.  I just can't stomach the up one down three ranking system.  Throw in a viewing of a couple of WoWS streamers pretty much giving themselves a rage ulcer over the whole mode and that becomes a big no thanks from me.  I don't even think it should be called ranked.  The star system is just a terrible method altogether.

Edited by Amenhir

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Indeed.  I think that playing CVs under the old RTS system was far, FAR worse.  Many more squadrons available to search for you.  Also, a CV could send one squadron to look for you without seriously affecting its ability to continue with strikes, at least at higher tiers.  And when they did find you, you were perma spotted, whether the planes had ammo or not.  And when the CV wanted your DD dead, you were almost always dead, if the CV player had any talent.  You'd get cross dropped or DB'd into oblivion.  You might have had some chance if you were one of those very strong AA DDs, with a strong AA build, and a DefAA charge ready to go.  

They could also scout almost the entire map simultaneously. 

Edited by Tzarevitch

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I'm going to give a try but will likely be bowing out early in this season.

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honestly not expecting many rental ships in R5 bracket(just like how rare rentals are in typhoon+ CW leagues), dont think rentals will make much of a difference

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Maybe a dumb question and does not really matter to me as I have a few t10's to play.. I never checked before do the rentals come with captains? and if so do they have a certain amount of skill points?  are they fully skilled when you put them in the Rental? or do they have to go through "training"? 

If not.. wow.. sure hand someone a T10 "rental" that maybe only at T6 or T7 with his/her tech tree ships with a 10-12 pt captain and to use the rental they now have to stick said Capt. in the ship and have to play against folks in T10's that not only have 19pt captains but legendary mods as well.  hmm.. that will end up with really well balanced games..  

Ah well.. should be interesting.

 

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18 minutes ago, S16_Hunter said:

Maybe a dumb question and does not really matter to me as I have a few t10's to play.. I never checked before do the rentals come with captains? and if so do they have a certain amount of skill points?  are they fully skilled when you put them in the Rental? or do they have to go through "training"? 

If not.. wow.. sure hand someone a T10 "rental" that maybe only at T6 or T7 with his/her tech tree ships with a 10-12 pt captain and to use the rental they now have to stick said Capt. in the ship and have to play against folks in T10's that not only have 19pt captains but legendary mods as well.  hmm.. that will end up with really well balanced games..  

Ah well.. should be interesting.

 

No captains and you cant mount camo either .

 

 

Oh boy , i hope they have rental CV's cause that'll be icing on the cake ..

Edited by EyE_dYe_QuIck

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3 hours ago, jason199506 said:

honestly not expecting many rental ships in R5 bracket(just like how rare rentals are in typhoon+ CW leagues), dont think rentals will make much of a difference

^ this.

It'll be a bit of a slog to get there since they will be in R15 and R10 brackets, but once R5 is attained, I don't think there'll be many rentals there either.  CVs will make the difference in this ranked season above EVERYTHING else, not rentals.

Comp  #WV44

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