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Graf Zeppelin bombers got several improvements:

  • Armor penetration increased by 11 mm.
  • Attack time increased from 6 to 8 s.
  • Bomb falling speed increased by 13%.
  • Inner and outer ellipses slightly reduced in size.

Due to the behavior of the aircraft at the beginning of the attack, the use of Graf Zeppelin dive bombers is noticeably different from the dive bombers of other aircraft carriers. These changes will make the use of Graf Zeppelin squadrons more comfortable.

Hakuryu’s alternative J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 torpedo bombers also got some improvements:

  • Attack preparation time reduced from 5 to 2.5 s.
  • Aiming speed during preparation increased.
  • Attack time lowered from 10 to 8 seconds.
  • Torpedo arming range reduced from 1182 m to 698 m.
  • The smallest possible spread of torpedoes slightly reduced.
  • Time between attacks decreased from 4 to 2 s.
  • The Repair consumable regenerates half the HP that it does on the standard torpedo bombers.
  • Damage reduction during attacks removed.
  • Unlike other squadrons, J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 are vulnerable to AA fire at all stages of the attack, but the squadron returns under the player's control immediately after the drop.

Hakuryu offers two concepts of torpedo bombers: the main ones imply standard use, and the alternative ones encourage attacking from a distance. The changes will increase the effectiveness of the second option. Hakuryu J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 will be most effective as a ranged weapon which requires more skill. If used correctly, they will reward the player with great damage due to each flight’s 4 torpedoes. Consider their vulnerability: when entering the middle AA zone, the entire squadron is likely to be lost.

Changes to Hakuryu can be tested on the Public test for 0.8.4.

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

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Here they come! I had a feeling torps were getting buffed. Now hopefully Midway's are next on the table, because good lord are they uncomfortable and ineffective compared to Lexington's!

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24 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

Here they come! I had a feeling torps were getting buffed. Now hopefully Midway's are next on the table, because good lord are they uncomfortable and ineffective compared to Lexington's!

Dude..what???...and..um..NO. Midway drops 5 torps which are already almost unavoidable for most BB's. You ARE going to get hit by 3 of those 5 with any competent cv driver. Lexington torps need a significant nerf. 

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Wow Graf bombers getting a buff but not really when u consider the planned nerf to engine cooling....

Edited by spook_1971
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59 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

Here they come! I had a feeling torps were getting buffed. Now hopefully Midway's are next on the table, because good lord are they uncomfortable and ineffective compared to Lexington's!

That's the first thing I noticed too,  was how much more effective the Lexington torps were and you have less of them ...lol

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2 hours ago, General_Lee_Miserable said:

Dude..what???...and..um..NO. Midway drops 5 torps which are already almost unavoidable for most BB's. You ARE going to get hit by 3 of those 5 with any competent cv driver. Lexington torps need a significant nerf. 

If a BB is hit by any considerable number of those 6 torps, which have a wind up that requires you start a run from about 6km off, you've kinda not paid any attention. The only time those things are even slightly useful is against a stationary target, and even then. Seriously, Midway's torps need to land about 5 to do nearly as much damage as Lexington's 3 do, and rarely do you land more than 2 at a time even on a BB, doubly so on follow up attacks. These torps are the same ones that Ranger uses, and the same one that Langley uses, and if I wanted Ranger's full torp salvo damage, I'd play Ranger, as her torps are actually effective, as you can turn and land 2, and then 2 again, as they actually have a reasonable windup time. I don't need to start an attack with her from the next postal code over.

It's so bad that I'd rather they give me access to something like what Lexington gets, and that's just sad, as torps shouldn't be a downgrade in every single aspect from the tier below. Sure, I get more, but those more will never hit a halfway competent ship unless they aren't moving when I find them. The only time Midway's torps are very effective is attacking into smoke, as there's so many that some are likely to hit something. The torps pre-nerf were op as heck, but now they are largely useless, as they swapped them for the weak torps that only do about 4.2k damage each. The one time I found a completely stationary Yamato, they did a little over 10k damage. Sure, Yamato has the best torpedo protection, but these torps simply can't effectively follow up that damage, making follow up attacks generally be shotgun blasts that land only 1-2 torps.

They, essentially, have no reason to have more than one attack total, as the windup is so bad that even attacking a different target that's 6 km off from the first is just not doable, as then the AA from 2 ships will destroy you. You have to basically go in a straight line for those 6km, meaning the only real way to dodge flak is to play with your speed, which will often mean you're in bad shape by the time you land an attack. Compare this to a 2-3km windup for the rest of the line.

When Ranger has more reliable torps than Midway, yes, there's a problem. 

Edit: And, to go further on, the problem with Midway is akin to the problem with KM BBs. Yes, you have great armor and great secondaries, but the main battery (in this case, torpedoes) is abyssmal. Compare this to a US BB, who are fairly okay across the board by the end. They're jack of all trades, and this isn't a bad thing.

I'd rather be okay at everything, as you can't really get around using torpedoes now and then.

Edited by Shoggoth_pinup
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Could you increase the Zeps plane health since your nerfing the engine boost? Her rocket planes are gonna be a even bigger joke and her current speed doesn't stop her from taking stupid amounts of damage the second its enters the magical continuous damage circle and now your gonna spend even more time in it, and you'll probably lose the ability to outrun fighters so yay. :Smile_sceptic:

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4 minutes ago, Carrier_Graf_Zeppelin said:

Could you increase the Zeps plane health since your nerfing the engine boost? Her rocket planes are gonna be a even bigger joke and her current speed doesn't stop her from taking stupid amounts of damage the second its enters the magical continuous damage circle and now your gonna spend even more time in it, and you'll probably lose the ability to outrun fighters so yay. :Smile_sceptic:

Nicely said!

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2 hours ago, Kami said:

Graf Zeppelin bombers got several improvements:

  • Armor penetration increased by 11 mm.
  • Attack time increased from 6 to 8 s.
  • Bomb falling speed increased by 13%.
  • Inner and outer ellipses slightly reduced in size.

Due to the behavior of the aircraft at the beginning of the attack, the use of Graf Zeppelin dive bombers is noticeably different from the dive bombers of other aircraft carriers. These changes will make the use of Graf Zeppelin squadrons more comfortable.

great news.

but how will the proposed CV wide speed boost nerf affect Graf, which has, in the rework, shined principally via the speed of her planes compensating lacklustre alpha/dot dmg?

Quote

The Engine Cooling consumable has been standardized for all aircraft. Now the consumable will give the same increase in speed at all tiers - 35 knots (40 for Japanese aircraft and attack aircraft of all nations) and equally slow down the aircraft by 17.5 knots (20 for Japanese aircraft and attack aircraft of all nations). The change will reduce the effectiveness of squadrons as scouts and also the strike potential at the highest tiers.

It really does feel Graf Zeppelin is once again, getting a net nerf. The CV that relies most on speed to be effective.

(at the other end of the spectrum, poor Brit RN cvs, their already slow squadrons... arghh! doesn't sound like fun)

1 hour ago, spook_1971 said:

Wow Graf bombers getting a buff but not really when u consider the planned nerf to engine cooling....

ofc,; it is a net nerf. A true buff would be to increase torp alpha dmg to respectable levels (one that forces BBs to consider their life choices), or to restore the 0.8.0 flood/fire DOT chances.

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9 hours ago, Carrier_Graf_Zeppelin said:

Could you increase the Zeps plane health since your nerfing the engine boost? Her rocket planes are gonna be a even bigger joke and her current speed doesn't stop her from taking stupid amounts of damage the second its enters the magical continuous damage circle and now your gonna spend even more time in it, and you'll probably lose the ability to outrun fighters so yay. :Smile_sceptic:

and it was not that long ago that they said they would not adjust premium cv's. yes global changes do happen, however I still think that these changes will leave some premium cv's in a bad spot.

Edited by Spitfire175
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1 hour ago, Spitfire175 said:

and it was not that long ago that they said they would not adjust premium cv's. ya right that was a good lie war gaming.

  lmbo you think that they will ever stick to anything they are saying. The only way that kind of stuff changes is if people with that ship start demanding refunds after they make the change.

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1 hour ago, Spitfire175 said:

and it was not that long ago that they said they would not adjust premium cv's. ya right that was a good lie war gaming.

Hey Spitfire175,

This was posted by Sub_Octavian on March 14th: It should be noted that even the ships purchased in or marketed through Premium store are a part of a big game we all play. That means our decision does not isolate any ship from systematic changes applied to a group of ships on common basis or to the whole game. For example, a change to the Radar mechanics affects all ships equipped with Radar, a Smoke mechanics change affects all ships with smoke, etc. 

When a change affects a whole class of ships, premium ships are not immune to the changes. They still fall under the appropriate ship type for the changes. In this case, this is a change for all CVs and not one CV in particular when you are referring to the change in the most recent Developer's Blog. 

 

 

 

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While the buff to her dive bombers is definitely appreciated, I hope that you guys will keep an eye on Graf Zeppelin after the Speed Boost changes go through. Her planes are kind of awful, and their quickness is often their only saving grace.

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12 minutes ago, Kami said:

Hey Spitfire175,

This was posted by Sub_Octavian on March 14th: It should be noted that even the ships purchased in or marketed through Premium store are a part of a big game we all play. That means our decision does not isolate any ship from systematic changes applied to a group of ships on common basis or to the whole game. For example, a change to the Radar mechanics affects all ships equipped with Radar, a Smoke mechanics change affects all ships with smoke, etc. 

When a change affects a whole class of ships, premium ships are not immune to the changes. They still fall under the appropriate ship type for the changes. In this case, this is a change for all CVs and not one CV in particular when you are referring to the change in the most recent Developer's Blog. 

 

 

 

lm@o really, when the prem cv's have their own peculiarity like GZ's need for speed  because of lack of hp then it becomes a gigantic problem for this one cv more so than the others and is NOT basis for making a blanket change to the class not to mention GZ is one of the more expensive prem's cv', if such is the case then there should be a disclaimer that is EASILY visible warning that this ship may be subject to possible castration after purchase , i would have never purchased  it then.....

Edited by spook_1971

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4 hours ago, Kami said:

Graf Zeppelin bombers got several improvements:

  • Armor penetration increased by 11 mm.
  • Attack time increased from 6 to 8 s.
  • Bomb falling speed increased by 13%.
  • Inner and outer ellipses slightly reduced in size.

Due to the behavior of the aircraft at the beginning of the attack, the use of Graf Zeppelin dive bombers is noticeably different from the dive bombers of other aircraft carriers. These changes will make the use of Graf Zeppelin squadrons more comfortable

Wait.....does WG sure about this?

As a GZ owner I'm happy that GZ get buff.... but ...the bomb speed and aiming ellipse both? That might be a little bit too much for T6-8 cruiser and battleship. I think only the speed is enough. But let's see if that 11mm more pin will make overpen citadel.

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1 hour ago, Kami said:

Hey Spitfire175,

This was posted by Sub_Octavian on March 14th: It should be noted that even the ships purchased in or marketed through Premium store are a part of a big game we all play. That means our decision does not isolate any ship from systematic changes applied to a group of ships on common basis or to the whole game. For example, a change to the Radar mechanics affects all ships equipped with Radar, a Smoke mechanics change affects all ships with smoke, etc. 

When a change affects a whole class of ships, premium ships are not immune to the changes. They still fall under the appropriate ship type for the changes. In this case, this is a change for all CVs and not one CV in particular when you are referring to the change in the most recent Developer's Blog. 

@Kami @Femennenly

This is kind of interesting because, compared to other HEDBs, Kaga has a unique attack profile, much like Graf Zeppelin's APDBs aren't quite like other APDB attack runs.

Can you confirm, then, that Kaga will be losing her distinctive attack run in favor of normalization with USN HEDB attack runs?

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J5N without 50 knot torps are still troublesome to work with. Even my sluggish T10s have an easy time dodging those torps.

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5 hours ago, Kami said:

Graf Zeppelin bombers got several improvements:

  • Armor penetration increased by 11 mm.
  • Attack time increased from 6 to 8 s.
  • Bomb falling speed increased by 13%.
  • Inner and outer ellipses slightly reduced in size.

Due to the behavior of the aircraft at the beginning of the attack, the use of Graf Zeppelin dive bombers is noticeably different from the dive bombers of other aircraft carriers. These changes will make the use of Graf Zeppelin squadrons more comfortable.

Hakuryu’s alternative J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 torpedo bombers also got some improvements:

  • Attack preparation time reduced from 5 to 2.5 s.
  • Aiming speed during preparation increased.
  • Attack time lowered from 10 to 8 seconds.
  • Torpedo arming range reduced from 1182 m to 698 m.
  • The smallest possible spread of torpedoes slightly reduced.
  • Time between attacks decreased from 4 to 2 s.
  • The Repair consumable regenerates half the HP that it does on the standard torpedo bombers.
  • Damage reduction during attacks removed.
  • Unlike other squadrons, J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 are vulnerable to AA fire at all stages of the attack, but the squadron returns under the player's control immediately after the drop.

Hakuryu offers two concepts of torpedo bombers: the main ones imply standard use, and the alternative ones encourage attacking from a distance. The changes will increase the effectiveness of the second option. Hakuryu J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 will be most effective as a ranged weapon which requires more skill. If used correctly, they will reward the player with great damage due to each flight’s 4 torpedoes. Consider their vulnerability: when entering the middle AA zone, the entire squadron is likely to be lost.

Changes to Hakuryu can be tested on the Public test for 0.8.4.

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

Interesting changes. Unless the GZ's reticle is getting fairly significantly smaller, though, I don't think these changes will address the main problem: CONSISTENCY.

With only two AP bombs falling, the amount of damage a single even well-placed drop can fluctuate is extreme. Even one bomb going wide or failing to citadel drops the max damage of the drop by 50%. To fix this, please consider the following:

Cut the bomb damage in half, but give each plane two bombs. Same damage potential, but should be spread a little more evenly. Furthermore, please consider changing the squad to use a 3x3 setup (attack flight of 3 planes, 9 planes in the squad). Coupled with the previous change, this would further increase the very-low reliability of the bombers, and increase their somewhat low damage potential some. Further reduction of the bomb damage could be made to keep the max damage closer to the current max damage, if needed. The planes are way too fragile to realistically pull off 4 drops as it is, so compressing their attack power into 3 drops (like several other CVs at the tier) should make them feel more comfortable.

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Darn, I was hoping for the Hakuryu changes to be for the 'normal' torp bombers. I live in co-op which means I have the challenge of not only dealing with AA clusters from grouped up bots, but I'm basically forced to work against my own team killing everything before I can do much. The removal of the 'extended speed boost' bug really hurt my ability to make enough strikes fast enough and I've honestly been avoiding most of my CVs at this point as they are a credit drain, even with premium time and perma camo as I cannot do enough damage fast enough to break even in co-op anymore. Anyways, back to the torp bombers, the long range torps are virtually useless to me as bots have very good torp dodging abilities, so I was hoping that the shorter ranged torp bombers might get some kind of a buff as dropping 2 'nerf darts' at a time at tier 10 isn't exactly the most effective attack method in the world when you're dealing with T10 torpedo protection. There's a reason that one of the few CVs I have been playing a fair bit recently is the Kaga, and it isn't just the HE bombs (I actually like the AP bombs as well, but you should get a choice between them on the ship and not be forced into just one type per nation).

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2 hours ago, Kami said:

Hey Spitfire175,

This was posted by Sub_Octavian on March 14th: It should be noted that even the ships purchased in or marketed through Premium store are a part of a big game we all play. That means our decision does not isolate any ship from systematic changes applied to a group of ships on common basis or to the whole game. For example, a change to the Radar mechanics affects all ships equipped with Radar, a Smoke mechanics change affects all ships with smoke, etc. 

When a change affects a whole class of ships, premium ships are not immune to the changes. They still fall under the appropriate ship type for the changes. In this case, this is a change for all CVs and not one CV in particular when you are referring to the change in the most recent Developer's Blog. 

 

 

 

look you can claim global changes all you want but if such massive changes were planed then the premium cv's should not have been sold when they were.  Right now many people will feel like we got bate and switched. If such changes are to go through then refunds should be offered.

I consider it to be acting in bad faith, In my case I bought the graff zeppelin because her planes have a 260knt max speed that is her defining trait and to have that nerfed when the ship is not that powerful to begin with leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Also Kami yes it is your game and you can nerf whatever you want but I don't like spending 74$ on a ship to have it nerfed shortly there after, and as a result I feel no need to purchase any more premium ships.

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6 hours ago, General_Lee_Miserable said:

Dude..what???...and..um..NO. Midway drops 5 torps which are already almost unavoidable for most BB's. You ARE going to get hit by 3 of those 5 with any competent cv driver. Lexington torps need a significant nerf. 

Yeah and those 5 torp hits do what?  5k damage total? :Smile_teethhappy:

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3 hours ago, Kami said:

Hey Spitfire175,

This was posted by Sub_Octavian on March 14th: It should be noted that even the ships purchased in or marketed through Premium store are a part of a big game we all play. That means our decision does not isolate any ship from systematic changes applied to a group of ships on common basis or to the whole game. For example, a change to the Radar mechanics affects all ships equipped with Radar, a Smoke mechanics change affects all ships with smoke, etc. 

When a change affects a whole class of ships, premium ships are not immune to the changes. They still fall under the appropriate ship type for the changes. In this case, this is a change for all CVs and not one CV in particular when you are referring to the change in the most recent Developer's Blog. 

 

 

 

How is it not understood that this affects one ship by and for more then all the rest? As a blanket change it does indeed affect all cv's: however, for the love of god stop trying to brush over the fact that this impact the Graf head and shoulders more then any other cv. It was sold on the premis that its planes are super fast. Give some constructive feed back as to how this will be addressed, for petes sake.

 

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7 hours ago, Kami said:

Graf Zeppelin bombers got several improvements:

  • Armor penetration increased by 11 mm.
  • Attack time increased from 6 to 8 s.
  • Bomb falling speed increased by 13%.
  • Inner and outer ellipses slightly reduced in size.

Due to the behavior of the aircraft at the beginning of the attack, the use of Graf Zeppelin dive bombers is noticeably different from the dive bombers of other aircraft carriers. These changes will make the use of Graf Zeppelin squadrons more comfortable.

Hakuryu’s alternative J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 torpedo bombers also got some improvements:

  • Attack preparation time reduced from 5 to 2.5 s.
  • Aiming speed during preparation increased.
  • Attack time lowered from 10 to 8 seconds.
  • Torpedo arming range reduced from 1182 m to 698 m.
  • The smallest possible spread of torpedoes slightly reduced.
  • Time between attacks decreased from 4 to 2 s.
  • The Repair consumable regenerates half the HP that it does on the standard torpedo bombers.
  • Damage reduction during attacks removed.
  • Unlike other squadrons, J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 are vulnerable to AA fire at all stages of the attack, but the squadron returns under the player's control immediately after the drop.

Hakuryu offers two concepts of torpedo bombers: the main ones imply standard use, and the alternative ones encourage attacking from a distance. The changes will increase the effectiveness of the second option. Hakuryu J5N Tenrai Type 91 mod. 8 will be most effective as a ranged weapon which requires more skill. If used correctly, they will reward the player with great damage due to each flight’s 4 torpedoes. Consider their vulnerability: when entering the middle AA zone, the entire squadron is likely to be lost.

Changes to Hakuryu can be tested on the Public test for 0.8.4.

Please note that the information in the Development Blog is preliminary.

@Kami Assuming Graf Zeppelin receives the global engine boost changes, which seems all but guaranteed. Would it not be worth looking into buffing the damage on her torpedo bombers? Kinda the point of Graf Zeppelin right now is her ability to machine gun her otherwise low single strike alpha torpedo bombers via minimal travel time. If her speed disparity is brought closer to her peers, shouldn't her damage per fish go up to make up for this?

Anyway just thought maybe you could forward this to the right people to look at.

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Looks like mod 8 is still going to be useless on Haku. IJN already has the most squishy planes and the nerfs to plane survivability mean it's unlikely to be a viable option.

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