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What's the point of IJN CVs?

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They are inferior in every way to the other CVs. You get the most fragile planes per tier. You get useless rockets and garbage AP bombs. Your only usable squad type is torpedos and even then they are worse than other nations. They don't excel at anything, they aren't good at anything, why play them over other nations?

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18 minutes ago, Tekina_ said:

They are inferior in every way to the other CVs. You get the most fragile planes per tier. You get useless rockets and garbage AP bombs. Your only usable squad type is torpedos and even then they are worse than other nations. They don't excel at anything, they aren't good at anything, why play them over other nations?

Where are you at in the Tier? T4s all suck for all brances, T6's are all ok in my book not awesome but not bad.  T8's Lex is winning the fight for sure, and Midway is better then Hak after it got nerfed hard.

IJN reined over the USN line for almost the entirety of the game.  Not saying they shouldnt be balanced but hard to feel for a line that crushed the other forever finally getting knocked down a peg.

Edited by JToney3449

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Ryujo and Shokaku have it not great at the moment. But at least you're not Furious or Implacable.

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I'm at t8. I can't see any reason to play Shoukaku over Lex or the brit CV. Lex has better rockets, higher torpedo damage per run, HE bombs, and more durable planes. Implacable has better rockets, similar torpedos, and all their planes have significantly more health than mine do. 

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if you think Shokaku is bad wait till you get the T10 Hakuryu.....it's the ultimate trash CV, i would take any of those T8 premium CV over the piece of garbage Hakuryu any day, it's been nerfed to the ground not even worth playing, just park your IJN CV to collect dust till that garbage is revived. 

 

ZERO reason to play IJN CV, none whatsover.  

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Blame the nerfs from 0.8.0.1 onward.

The same hot fix have nerfed DD DMG to make room for the Cv.

If you can make it work then GL to you... CVs have lost their identity/purpose (while nerf'ing DDs along the way), ever since the above noted patch went live. 

GL/HF with learning the class... Its not for everyone

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Funny.... CV players complaining about CVs while every other class is [edited] to high heaven at the CV code. We are just never satisfied as a user community, lol. Doesn't matter what the game is... My 2 cents, although I can't speak much because I am at T3-T4. At that tier it is ridiculous... I tracked 2 months worth of games (about 200) 93% of the time the higher scoring CV pair won, so if you know there are 2 good CV players on the other side, why bother to play the game? CVs never go after CVs in the games I have played in (which was their primary mission historically) so I would concur that CVs have lost their purpose in the game. 

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59 minutes ago, Xcalib3r said:

if you think Shokaku is bad wait till you get the T10 Hakuryu....  

You guys are really selling the Hak short.

It is super strong dealing basically citadel damage all game. It has the best single torpedo alpha at tier and the AP DBs are vicious. 

While she is certainly not as versatile as Midway, you would much rather play Hak in a cruiser heavy game.  

If your stubbornly using the 4 drops, your doing it wrong. The plane speed is excellent and  Hak basically stacks 15k of citadel damage per attack run by hitting only two cits with DBs or two torps. That’s strong fellas. 

Shokaku is quite difficult though. The fragility of the planes really hurts the hanger. She can still perform but you have to be much more careful with her than say Lex.

Edited by NoloContendere

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Unless the characteristics of Haku's DBs significantly improve I don't see it.  They are too inaccurate and match up based to be a consistent source of damage on lower tiers. 

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2 hours ago, Tekina_ said:

They are inferior in every way to the other CVs. You get the most fragile planes per tier. You get useless rockets and garbage AP bombs. Your only usable squad type is torpedos and even then they are worse than other nations. They don't excel at anything, they aren't good at anything, why play them over other nations?

Au contraire! If you're playing Japanese carriers like you would their US or British counterparts then you're doing it wrong, they have completely different strengths and weaknesses. For starters, their planes are all rather fast. Not as fast as same-tier US rocket planes or the speed demons that are Graf Zeppelin's bombers, but still faster than average. This goes a long way to make up for their lack of HP because for planes SPEED IS LIFE. AA deals damage based on how long you're in it, so a faster plane can afford to be more fragile because it spends less time under fire.

As for their armaments, let's go down the list.

Rockets: Japanese rockets are... Weird. They come out as the gold standard in "meh", but that's not because of their stats actually. They hit harder than same-tier US rockets on a per-rocket basis, which surprised the hell out of me when I first found out about it. So what holds them back? Numbers. You get, at most, six rockets per-plane with Japan, usually four. In contrast the US will get up to TEN HVARs per plane on Midway, or three bunker-busting Tiny Tims. The other thing holding them back, of course, is the fact that Japanese rocket planes are a little slow compared to US ones. Honestly your rocket squadrons should be used for scouting, providing quick fighter support, and as a fallback when everything else is on cooldown.

Torpedoes: This is actually where Japan shines. You only get two per run on most ships (unless you use Hak's 12/4 squadron), but you get more runs than your peers and a whole extra squadron on deck at the beginning of the match. That last bit is an unsubtle hint as to what your main damage dealer should be. Your torpedoes also have more damage than your competitors at every tier, and the aforementioned 12/4 squadron on Hakuryu with the longer arming time gives you a whopping 37332 potential damage per run. That's before torp bulges and damage reduction are factored in, but it's still the highest for ANY squadron in the game.

Dive Bombs: Here's where I feel the main sticking point is going to be, the take-it-or-leave-it point of the Japanese line. They get AP bombs. On the plus side, this means you can punish overly confident battleships with citadels from higher drops (less accurate, but satisfying to pull off) and show cruisers who really rules the air with citadels from low drops (much more predictable). The problem is that... Well, AP bomb damage is not in a good place right now to be honest. I got 5900 damage last night from a CITADEL penetration with Graf Zeppelin, that's kind of pathetic. But these are still good weapons to use as finishers against battleships or for taking nice bites out of cruisers. You just have to practice that aim.

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2 hours ago, JToney3449 said:

Where are you at in the Tier? T4s all suck for all brances, T6's are all ok in my book not awesome but not bad.  T8's Lex is winning the fight for sure, and Midway is better then Hak after it got nerfed hard.

IJN reined over the USN line for almost the entirety of the game.  Not saying they shouldnt be balanced but hard to feel for a line that crushed the other forever finally getting knocked down a peg.

Ironically before the changes it was Bouge, Saipan and Midway  that were the only USN CV that were better or evenly matched when compared to the IJN CVs.

 

now everything is flipped on its head it seems.:cap_hmm:

 

Also, I still wish WG would bring them back, this even tier set up is complete bull :etc_swear:  and is lazy if you ask me.:Smile_sceptic:

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The rockets are not even good at scouting to be honest. Not when their boost lasts for only a few seconds while the TBs last for about half a minute with barely a speed difference.

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2 hours ago, Tekina_ said:

They are inferior in every way to the other CVs. You get the most fragile planes per tier. You get useless rockets and garbage AP bombs. Your only usable squad type is torpedos and even then they are worse than other nations. They don't excel at anything, they aren't good at anything, why play them over other nations?

If you have any questions about CV, send me PMs and I'll try to help you, rest assured that IJN CVs are actually pretty good for what they do.

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2 hours ago, Tekina_ said:

They are inferior in every way to the other CVs. You get the most fragile planes per tier. You get useless rockets and garbage AP bombs. Your only usable squad type is torpedos and even then they are worse than other nations. They don't excel at anything, they aren't good at anything, why play them over other nations?

Keep going t8 so is great 

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35 minutes ago, Tekina_ said:

The rockets are not even good at scouting to be honest. Not when their boost lasts for only a few seconds while the TBs last for about half a minute with barely a speed difference.

...

That's EVERY rocket squadron in the game, it's not a uniquely Japanese weakness. Rocket-planes also get a GREATER boost to their speed than other squadrons and the recharge rate is just as fast as the drain rate. It works out even if you can manage it right.

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As Landsraad said, the main strength of IJN CV's are going after the bigger ships (like cruisers or BB's), with their above-average (by CV standards, lol) torpedoes and AP bombs. Going after the smol guys would leave you with a sour taste in your mouth... unless you have a really high accuracy.

Best part is when you land a citadel with the AP bomb... or double hits with a single torpedo run.

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Ryujo isn't bad, so long as you focus on torpedo bombers and not wasting them needlessly.
IMO, Furious is the worst T6CV.

Shokaku is the worst T8CV.

Although, speaking from a balance standpoint, the other T8 CVs ought to be nerfed to Shokaku's level, while the T6 CVs ought to be nerfed to Furious levels.

Edited by MrDeaf

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4 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

Ryujo isn't bad, so long as you focus on torpedo bombers and not wasting them needlessly.
IMO, Furious is the worst T6CV.

Shokaku is the worst T8CV.

Although, speaking from a balance standpoint, the other T8 CVs ought to be nerfed to Shokaku's level, while the T6 CVs ought to be nerfed to Furious levels.

I'd make the argument for Ryujo and Furious being about equal, it all depends on whether you have better luck/skill with Ryujo's dive-bombers or Furious' level bombers.

Tier 8? Eh, I'd say that Implacable is the closest one to being the "standard" for balance right now. Her rocket planes are in dire need of either HP or speed, but otherwise the ship as a whole is fine. If Lexington and Shokaku were tweaked to its level we'd be in a good place. Same at tier 10, Audacious feels like the balance-point right now.

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IMO IJN CVs are closer to where CVs should be than USN CVs are, though most of the changes I would recommend would be small buffs.

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IJN CV focus on capital ship. You strike fast with your good torpedo bomber and avoid loosing them at all cost. Shoukaku gets actually good AP DB unlike Ryujou one which are....questionnable. Against cruiser, I like to go with AP DB while against BB, torpedo bomber do a very good job.

 

As for rocket, they're good at penning cruiser or BB superstructure but the accuracy makes them meh against DD. Hakuryu rocket are very nasty against most cruiser but they're very squeeshy and easy to shot down. 

 

IJN CV really focus on fast strike. You don't spend too much time under AA, you make a strike, go out of AA range, make a second one if your planes HP is ok and recall them. 

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1 hour ago, BladedPheonix said:

Ironically before the changes it was Bouge, Saipan and Midway  that were the only USN CV that were better or evenly matched when compared to the IJN CVs.

 

now everything is flipped on its head it seems.:cap_hmm:

 

Also, I still wish WG would bring them back, this even tier set up is complete bull :etc_swear:  and is lazy if you ask me.:Smile_sceptic:

The balance between was fine before and it's fine now. Both are good, IJN CVs are just more situational. They punish cruisers a lot harder and they take much less time sinking BBs, but they are not as versatile as USN CVs and certainly take more skill. At lower tiers you need to learn how to be conservative with your squad and how to use speed boost to avoid getting deplaned, it's a skill you will need with Hakuryu as even T8 AA will be a threat and misplaying will have you lose a lot of planes, but with good management you should be able to put fear even into high AA power cruisers like Minotaurs and Worcesters and still avoid getting deplaned. 

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