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warheart1992

Pyotr Velikiy is drama waiting to happen.

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So, I was lucky to get a Pyotr Velikiy mission from a free container yesterday. Decided to quickly grind the XP and take a look at the new tier V. Normally I am a relatively average BB player, I see it more as a hobby. So far so good, Pyotr was unlocked in no time. Then I decided to have a few battles in it, and yeah, I can safely say it will turn out to be an issue of almost Giulio Cesare proportions. Why though?

Simply put, Pyotr Velikiy in her current form provides a relatively knowledgeable player with a platform of unbelievably high skill ceiling.

First of all, let's get something out of the way. This ship will be relatively balanced in the hands of the average player. The limited Damage Control, the ease with which you can get citadelled the moment you show broadside and the relatively low range will help in that regard.

In the hands of a player that knows about overmatch, has a relatively well trained Commander and knows how to handle Damage Control/Repair, the ship's potential is insane.

The main issue is the armour. I already knew from CC footage that Pyotr had some insane armour values, but only when I actually headed into battle did I realize what this thing allowed you to do. First of all, some pics:

shot-19_05_05_00_43.18-0475.thumb.jpg.eabcc7ab816d5b32e9e6e3b394ec81b1.jpgshot-19_05_05_00_43.16-0891.thumb.jpg.7743301ace87e880554fb293e8a05d0f.jpg

As you can see, practically can't be overmatched from the front. In addition, you need the /4 rule for HE in a BB to do damage there. This means that you can park in front of a BB, and watch most AP bounce and you taking minimal damage. By comparion, most Battleships at tiers V have 19mm extremities, tiers VI and VII 25mm. Of course, I have found that you need to be facing almost straight forward to the enemy. Otherwise the front secondary turrets due to their angles may present a penetrable target.

From the aft there is a small 19mm section, don't think it will be that easy to hit unless point blank.

shot-19_05_05_00_43.22-0300.thumb.jpg.9199f9191b48e164287ff25cfadb2eed.jpg

As you can see, crazy protection. But this isn't all.

shot-19_05_05_00_43.08-0442.thumb.jpg.f9d35e2dcbbfa9094c8681041d3fdd4d.jpg

shot-19_05_05_00_43.12-0944.thumb.jpg.e40feb9f590f8f2afc83d822f63d9626.jpg

The lower superstructure, a very common place to land HE in a cruiser has a 125mm section, shattering almost any possible HE regardless of class. Thankfully there are 25mm sections and normal superstructure that can be penetrated, however I am afraid that due to it's small size saturation won't be that hard to achieve.

Of course, protection ensures that you will live provided you present your frontal armor and don't engage many targets at once. But then you combine it with the ship's concealment; 11.9km, same as Giulio Cesare. Then you also add the speed, 26.5 knots which is perfectly workable for a tier where 21-22 knots is normal.

And keep in mind that from time to time you will be facing Tier IVs. This thing can handle solo tier VIIs , I can't fathom how a new player in a BB will feel when he is unable to do almost anything regardless of ammo choice while getting overmatched every single time.

It's very early of course to immediately say the ship is broken, she hasn't even been normally released yet, however these are the vibes I'm getting.

To conclude, I don't normally write these kinds of posts, but I am afraid Pyotr Velikiy will turn out to cause some controversy. I can easily see the ship joining the ranks of Giulio Cesare, Kamikaze and the pre nerf Iron Duke,  becoming a sealclubber favorite that definitely plays it's role in driving newer players away.

Thanks for the read, hope we can get some reasonable discussion going around the subject. :crab:

Edited by warheart1992
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Wouldn't this also mean she'll get a lot of penetrations from normal AP?

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Just now, ALROCHA said:

Wouldn't this also mean she'll get a lot of penetrations from normal AP?

The ship can get decimated by side shots which is a balancing measure. The issue is that due to the overmatch rules the bow and large parts of the aft just can't be penetrated by any AP, regardless of caliber. Konig has a similar strong bow, but only covers the lower part of the bow, not the whole one. You can go for turret shots but it's a gamble as well. What I'm arguing is that a reasonably competent player will be able to abuse this to no end, being able to bully up to tier VII without much trouble. 

Comparing this with ships like Kongo or New York almost hurts and makes one wonder how far powercreep has gone even at low/mid tiers. :Smile_hiding:

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I honestly haven't been impressed with it - either close-in or at range; either playing as one or against them. Honestly, it's far too easy to neutralize the Soviet BBs early by taking distance pot-shots and crushing their citadels like an egg. If you can cit a BB once or twice early in the game, I don't care how great of a bruiser it is up close - it's at an enormous disadvantage.

This is in addition to the longer-range meta Pyotr sees in a lot of matches - you can't boot up a tier 5 and expect to just roll along as the top dog in every match. And Pyotrs are just waiting to get picked apart by boats like KGV and Nagato and Colorado.

Edited by Battleship_Elisabeth

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Took it in coop to do some testing..Got deleted twice, close range, in one salvo...well..

I mean I looked at the armor scheme before I drove it out, and was under the impression that it's semi tanky..Must be doing something wrong

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She might be able to bow tank anything in the game but she's as vulnerable to citadel hits as any other BB at her tier. And she doesn't have very good TDR so she's vulnerable to torpedoes and her AA isn't anything special so planes will have their way with her.

The Russian BB gimmick is good accuracy at short and medium range. But to get that close to enemy ships makes it hard to angle against everything that might be shooting at you. I don't expect this ship to outperform other BBs at her tier.

Perhaps she'll perform like a Furutaka, very powerful in skilled hands but much closer to average for most people. I don't hear anyone asking for the Furutaka to be nerfed.

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2 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

First of all, let's get something out of the way. This ship will be relatively balanced in the hands of the average player. The limited Damage Control, the ease with which you can get citadelled the moment you show broadside and the relatively low range will help in that regard.

This nonsense claim needs to stop.  The damage control is not functionally limited.  Skilled players will rarely use DCP 5 times in a match.  I probably average about 3 uses per match.  The reduced cooldown makes it, in many ways, superior to the normal DCP.  The reduced action time is a disadvantage, but one shared by the Japanese.

Your average, broadsiding potato doesn't last long enough to use DCP 5 times.  The reduced cooldown on the Russian BB DCP actually makes it more likely said potato will get to use his DCP to its fullest.

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Had two park in the middle of the map. Slammed New Mexico ap rounds into them repeatedly any thing but flat broadside pretty much bounced. They pretty much wiped the map. Much more fun like that and it will be time for a long vacation till these imaginary wonders get nerfed. Between these and CVs I could just slam my hand in a car door to recreate the enjoyment level.

Edited by Cirdane
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2 minutes ago, Cirdane said:

Had two park in the middle of the map. Slammed New Mexico ap rounds into them repeatedly any thing but flat broadside pretty much bounced. They pretty much wiped the map. Much more fun like that and it will be time for a long vacation till these imaginary wonders get nerfed. Between these and CVs I could just slam my hand in a car door to recreate the enjoyment level.

Funny enough, CVs may be the answer to deal with these.  Specifically, Japanese AP dive bombers.

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I went into detail with V Pyotr Velikiy in some early impressions with her here:

Side armor is an obvious weakness but the one people aren't talking about is the gunnery.  Not many guns and RU BB style gunnery that only gets better the shorter the range is.

 

In addition, RU BBs while having good to great rudder shift, take very wide turns.  Couple this with the very low TDS (13%), this ship will get busted by Torpedo Bombers.  She will also deal with some of the most notorious Seal Clubbing Destroyers who will love that 13% TDS.

 

I think the BB is fine for Tier V, but it's "schtick" is being tanky as f--k frontally.  The gunnery isn't grand and torpedoes / torpedo bombers will eat this BB alive.  This thing will deal with Tier IV & VI Carriers.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 hours ago, Helstrem said:

Funny enough, CVs may be the answer to deal with these.  Specifically, Japanese AP dive bombers.

Try flying against then. You cant through unless your a teir above them.

Power cheap is real.

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9 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Try flying against then. You cant through unless your a teir above them.

Power cheap is real.

Tier V & VI deal with each other quite often.  Ranger & Ryujo are bonafide threats to them.  That 13% TDS and large turning circle radius (i.e. wide lazy turns) is going to be a very big issue.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Oh boy! Pyotr is making his debut to the masses outside the battleship boards. Hang on, let me grab my popcorn!:cap_popcorn:

4 hours ago, Helstrem said:

This nonsense claim needs to stop.  The damage control is not functionally limited.  Skilled players will rarely use DCP 5 times in a match.  I probably average about 3 uses per match.  The reduced cooldown makes it, in many ways, superior to the normal DCP.  The reduced action time is a disadvantage, but one shared by the Japanese.

Your average, broadsiding potato doesn't last long enough to use DCP 5 times.  The reduced cooldown on the Russian BB DCP actually makes it more likely said potato will get to use his DCP to its fullest.

Okay Hel, I've got to ask, have you played them? I have, and HOO BOY these things aren't doused in kerosene, they're drenched with rocket-grade RP-1 and clad in aluminum. These ships catch fire CONSTANTLY for me. Maybe it's just me, iDunno. But people know to load HE when they see these monsters (usually), and Pyotr actually got me my first ever QUADRUPLE FIRE in a match in over three years of playing. It was kind of insane.

14 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Try flying against then. You cant through unless your a teir above them.

Power cheap is real.

Okay, I have yet to see a Langley, Hosho, or Hermes in mine so I can't really comment there; but Pyotr, Sinop, and Vlad the Often Impaled all have AA that... Honestly kinda sucks for a battleship. I STILL have yet to take Izmail for a spin, I need to rectify that, but Rangers, Furious's, and Ryujos are the bane of Pete's existence. That and citadels. Oh gods the citadels... OH! Haze! Quick, we need to grab the internal armor scheme pics to show off how stupid the turtle-back is! It literally deflected rounds INTO the citadel!

All-in-all I compare Pyotr Velikiy to Kongo. If Kongo could bow-tank a Yamato, exploded instantly when hit broadside, had a gunnery crew drunk on vodka, and was constantly on fire.

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There are other ships with similar protection against AP, like the Lyon. Trying to use the bow to tank shells though you won't be able to do much in return with those few guns, and if you want to use them all you have to show a lot of broadside. 

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My first impressions having played it a few times is it's probably balanced. It's bow tanking ability is definitely excellent but it's ridiculously squishy from the sides and the guns are not that great.

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Just now, Landsraad said:

Okay Hel, I've got to ask, have you played them? I have, and HOO BOY these things aren't doused in kerosene, they're drenched with rocket-grade RP-1 and clad in aluminum. These ships catch fire CONSTANTLY for me. Maybe it's just me, iDunno. But people know to load HE when they see these monsters (usually), and Pyotr actually got me my first ever QUADRUPLE FIRE in a match in over three years of playing. It was kind of insane.

Yes.  They catch fire, or don't, exactly like every other ship their tier.  Fire chance is Tier based.

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1 minute ago, Helstrem said:

Yes.  They catch fire, or don't, exactly like every other ship their tier.  Fire chance is Tier based.

*shrugs*

I don't know what to say then, these are the only ships I feel I can safely say I'm on fire more often than I'm not regardless of tier. Maybe it''s the volume of fire combined with HE, maybe it's just me being too aggressive with them, maybe it's just unlucky RNG. But these ships seem to light up at the slightest provocation.

Kind of like the increased fire chance on Russian tanks in WoT, now that I think of it.

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Just now, Landsraad said:

*shrugs*

I don't know what to say then, these are the only ships I feel I can safely say I'm on fire more often than I'm not regardless of tier. Maybe it''s the volume of fire combined with HE, maybe it's just me being too aggressive with them, maybe it's just unlucky RNG. But these ships seem to light up at the slightest provocation.

Kind of like the increased fire chance on Russian tanks in WoT, now that I think of it.

Being too aggressive will do that and the Russian accuracy encourages you to be too aggressive.  When you get to far forward, you get focused and, obviously, the more HE hitting you the more likely you are to be on fire.

The fire mechanism in WoWS is very simple.  It doesn't matter which type of ship, which nation's ship or anything other than which tier, captain skills, flags and ship modules the firing ship and receiving ship have, and some of those only apply to one or the other.  Tier of firing ship doesn't matter, and there are no flags that lower fire chance.

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2 hours ago, Landsraad said:

OH! Haze! Quick, we need to grab the internal armor scheme pics to show off how stupid the turtle-back is! It literally deflected rounds INTO the citadel!

All-in-all I compare Pyotr Velikiy to Kongo. If Kongo could bow-tank a Yamato, exploded instantly when hit broadside, had a gunnery crew drunk on vodka, and was constantly on fire.

The side protection is highly suspect.  She makes New York look like GK.

External armor.  Extremely good forward protection, even the deck is great.  38mm deck is what High Tier USN BBs get.  This will cause a lot of Cruiser / DD HE shells that fall around there to simply be non-pens.  The bow lets her laugh off even 460mm AP.  Couple this with the very quick reloading RU BB DCP consumable, she can be quite resilient for a good while against Fire / Flood effects.  The side protection however is more vulnerable.

u60WXRa.jpg

fzaYjM3.jpg

AwaYng4.jpg

 

Take note of the 2nd & 3rd pictures, where the 50mm angled deck stops rising halfway up the Citadel.  Tier V Pyotr isn't the only RU BB with this weak Citadel protection, others are like this or just as bad.

If she can keep the fighting in front of her, she's tough as hell but what happens sometimes is some observant enemy BB player halfway across the map can see your sides and plant a long range salvo.

Tier VI Izmail has a very similar citadel protection scheme. 

VII Sinop is a bit different but still close enough.  

VIII Vladivostok is also easy to delete from the sides despite the side protection being very different from the V-VII RU BBs.

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10 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

 

So, I was lucky to get a Pyotr Velikiy mission from a free container yesterday. Decided to quickly grind the XP and take a look at the new tier V. Normally I am a relatively average BB player, I see it more as a hobby. So far so good, Pyotr was unlocked in no time. Then I decided to have a few battles in it, and yeah, I can safely say it will turn out to be an issue of almost Giulio Cesare proportions. Why though?

Simply put, Pyotr Velikiy in her current form provides a relatively knowledgeable player with a platform of unbelievably high skill ceiling.

First of all, let's get something out of the way. This ship will be relatively balanced in the hands of the average player. The limited Damage Control, the ease with which you can get citadelled the moment you show broadside and the relatively low range will help in that regard.

In the hands of a player that knows about overmatch, has a relatively well trained Commander and knows how to handle Damage Control/Repair, the ship's potential is insane.

The main issue is the armour. I already knew from CC footage that Pyotr had some insane armour values, but only when I actually headed into battle did I realize what this thing allowed you to do. First of all, some pics:

shot-19_05_05_00_43.18-0475.thumb.jpg.eabcc7ab816d5b32e9e6e3b394ec81b1.jpgshot-19_05_05_00_43.16-0891.thumb.jpg.7743301ace87e880554fb293e8a05d0f.jpg

As you can see, practically can't be overmatched from the front. In addition, you need the /4 rule for HE in a BB to do damage there. This means that you can park in front of a BB, and watch most AP bounce and you taking minimal damage. By comparion, most Battleships at tiers V have 19mm extremities, tiers VI and VII 25mm. Of course, I have found that you need to be facing almost straight forward to the enemy. Otherwise the front secondary turrets due to their angles may present a penetrable target.

From the aft there is a small 19mm section, don't think it will be that easy to hit unless point blank.

shot-19_05_05_00_43.22-0300.thumb.jpg.9199f9191b48e164287ff25cfadb2eed.jpg

As you can see, crazy protection. But this isn't all.

shot-19_05_05_00_43.08-0442.thumb.jpg.f9d35e2dcbbfa9094c8681041d3fdd4d.jpg

shot-19_05_05_00_43.12-0944.thumb.jpg.e40feb9f590f8f2afc83d822f63d9626.jpg

The lower superstructure, a very common place to land HE in a cruiser has a 125mm section, shattering almost any possible HE regardless of class. Thankfully there are 25mm sections and normal superstructure that can be penetrated, however I am afraid that due to it's small size saturation won't be that hard to achieve.

Of course, protection ensures that you will live provided you present your frontal armor and don't engage many targets at once. But then you combine it with the ship's concealment; 11.9km, same as Giulio Cesare. Then you also add the speed, 26.5 knots which is perfectly workable for a tier where 21-22 knots is normal.

And keep in mind that from time to time you will be facing Tier IVs. This thing can handle solo tier VIIs , I can't fathom how a new player in a BB will feel when he is unable to do almost anything regardless of ammo choice while getting overmatched every single time.

It's very early of course to immediately say the ship is broken, she hasn't even been normally released yet, however these are the vibes I'm getting.

To conclude, I don't normally write these kinds of posts, but I am afraid Pyotr Velikiy will turn out to cause some controversy. I can easily see the ship joining the ranks of Giulio Cesare, Kamikaze and the pre nerf Iron Duke,  becoming a sealclubber favorite that definitely plays it's role in driving newer players away.

Thanks for the read, hope we can get some reasonable discussion going around the subject. :crab:

I felt this way too. My maiden voyage in potyr in a t7 match resulted in 90k dmg, 3 kills, and barely a paint scratch to my hull even with 5 targetting me at one point. The guns handle very well with flat arcs, high velocities, and accurate landings... i even obliterated a poor nicolas at 10k for over 8k damage in a single salvo... non det...

Potyr is a beast... and if its any indication for the rest of the line... its absurdly OP in the right hands...

The rapid cooldown on dcp even with finite charges makes flood/fire laughable... especially with the reduced fire 4pt perk... ru bbs are looking tough as nails...

Edited by Xanshin

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I've encountered a few Pyotrs playing T6 CVs (don't judge me, I'm just trying to go up the lines and I've already gone up all other lines so I don't have tech tree ships to play at this tier) and they seem easy enough for bombers to damage. Then again, that's not really saying much since most BBs at this tier has moderately acceptable AA.

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My PV must have come off the production line on Friday afternoon before the May holidays - I'm not seeing the effect of these armour values at all.

I just had a game (on EU) where my PV went up against a Texas at medium-ish range. I tried three different bow-in angles against him, but he citadelled me on each of his three salvos. Given his dispersion, he was probably getting a citadel with nearly 50% of every actual hit.

Likewise, in a dozen or so other games, I've not noticed any particular durability about this ship - it takes plenty of AP damage from all ship classes (albeit not quite on the scale of HE and CV damage). Maybe the reality is that the armour model offers too many flat surfaces that act as shot traps - or the model is plain bugged?

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