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Zaydin

WG really needs to rework RN BBs

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Specifically to rework them to have a less cancerous gimmick than brainless HE spam. There is zero counterplay to HE spam since angling won't do squat to stop HE shells from doing damage or setting fires.

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2 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

Specifically to rework them to have a less cancerous gimmick than brainless HE spam. There is zero counterplay to HE spam since angling won't do squat to stop HE shells from doing damage or setting fires.

Having played every BB but french to T10, I can say that while the conqueror has a lower skill floor that its counterparts, its also incredibly squishy compared to its peers. That thing is like paper.   I dont think its out of balance personally.

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Just now, megahugenoob said:

Having played every BB but french to T10, I can say that while the conqueror has a lower skill floor that its counterparts, its also incredibly squishy compared to its peers. That thing is like paper.   I dont think its out of balance personally.

From a gameplay perspective, maybe it is balanced, but it is not fun to play against.

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1 minute ago, Zaydin said:

From a gameplay perspective, maybe it is balanced, but it is not fun to play against.

That I can't disagree with.  I have hated HE spam for a long time (wooster, Khab, Zao, conq, Henri) but right now, I personally I believe that's a minor issue compared to the CV cancer they have unleashed on the playerbase.  That to me is something that is truly worth quitting over.

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HE spam from light cruisers is far worse a problem than from BB's just because of the extreme rate of fire.

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9 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

Specifically to rework them to have a less cancerous gimmick than brainless HE spam. There is zero counterplay to HE spam since angling won't do squat to stop HE shells from doing damage or setting fires.

There are other counterplays but yes I agree it would be better if RN had better AP and worse HE.

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It's almost rare to see someone actually play the conq well.. I've had teammates today averaging 40-50k damage in a ship that should print it out.. It's still one of those ships where it'll be dangerous in the hands of some.. but will be useless in the hands of others.

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Rework Yamato and Musashi's super skillful AP overmatch from any angle and we'll talk...

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1 minute ago, mofton said:

Rework Yamato and Musashi's super skillful AP overmatch from any angle and we'll talk...

For sure this.

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3 minutes ago, mofton said:

Rework Yamato and Musashi's super skillful AP overmatch from any angle and we'll talk...

Well good news, they did! Sort of. They added a ship that Yamasushi can't pen from just any angle at least.

*snickers in Pytor Velikiy*

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23 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

HE spam from light cruisers is far worse a problem than from BB's just because of the extreme rate of fire.

Get an Atlanta locked in on you & that becomes very apparent.

In Aegis my Normandie was set on fire by 1 hit 3 times plus a few other times. I used up all but one Repair Party and was still below 40% HP.  Both repair party & damage control were on cool down when I was set ablaze again by a DD & citadel by one of the BB's. I could do nothing but watch the HP disappear. It is frustrating.

The USS Arkansas was within the 1000yd radius of Operation Crossroad's Able blast. The extreme heat from the atomic blast did not burn up and sink a pre-WW1 battleship. But for balance 127mm & smaller HE can burn a BB to the point of sinking. All for balance.

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1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

HE spam from light cruisers is far worse a problem than from BB's just because of the extreme rate of fire.

HE spam in general needs to be looked at. Of course, you do that and you'll get people complaining, though likely destroyers the loudest as usual.

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1 minute ago, Zaydin said:

HE spam in general needs to be looked at. Of course, you do that and you'll get people complaining, though likely destroyers the loudest as usual.

I have lobbied for changes for a long time to at least make the player feel like their crew is actually trying to fight the fires and floods instead of the current " sorry captain, the union says we have to take a break" all or nothing system.

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2 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I have lobbied for changes for a long time to at least make the player feel like their crew is actually trying to fight the fires and floods instead of the current " sorry captain, the union says we have to take a break" all or nothing system.

Unfortunately, DDs are very good at amplifying their voices and making it seem like their minority opinion is in the majority.

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Sounds to me like your problem is with HE in general, not necessarily just the RN BB line.  I see far mor complaints about the IJN gunboats and USN light cruisers than battleship HE.  I cant imagine those are very fun to play against either if that is your main objective.

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6 minutes ago, T_O_dubl_D said:

Sounds to me like your problem is with HE in general, not necessarily just the RN BB line.  I see far mor complaints about the IJN gunboats and USN light cruisers than battleship HE.  I cant imagine those are very fun to play against either if that is your main objective.

Oh trust me, I do hate HE spam in general. I've always felt that WG should be encouraging players to intelligently switch ammo based on the situation and target rather than rewarding players for just equipping HE and weighing down LMB.

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1 hour ago, mofton said:

Rework Yamato and Musashi's super skillful AP overmatch from any angle and we'll talk...

Yep!

1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

For sure this.

Yep!

1 hour ago, Zaydin said:

HE spam in general needs to be looked at. Of course, you do that and you'll get people complaining, though likely destroyers the loudest as usual.

You have stated in this thread that you do not like 'to play against' the mechanic'; you have stated it isn't a balance thing.

For me this would mean the overmatch would need to go - as like you state with the HE, it's not fun.

Also (and I will whisper this, so it doesn't scare you being too loud). But why would a DD care if you change the RN BB HE mechanic? :Smile_facepalm:(Anti-DD bias front and centre I see:Smile_teethhappy:).

 

However, if you have another 'secret' agenda here and this is in fact a HE thing then that is a big no from me. This is not a DD thing, but a ship type thing! On average the BB has the best survival of the 3 ships - it has the best damage of the 3 ships. Then the Cruisers, then the destroyers. It has been that way across the servers for years.

Question: If HE is one part of the way a smaller ship would damage a bigger ship (like how , in reverse, BB AP damages CA citadels), and smaller ships already survive less and do less damage - how will you compensate?

What I mean by compensate is: I believe all players should be able to pick 'any ship' and survive on average as well as any other - so they can have fun contributing to the team. I believe all players, if they play 'any ship' to its role, should get on average equal rewards (credits/XP) as 'any ship'. That is fair and favours no ship type.

So 'IF' you weren't being straight out anti-DD and are looking to change a mechanic that will impact on smaller ships, when they are already scoring lower in that area anyway, what is your solution?

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If there's a BB line that needs reworking, I would rather have them choose the Germans.  The guns are frustrating as heck, for having an untouchable citadel that doesn't mean alot to more skilled play, not to mention it breeding less-than-ideal habits for BB players and giving broadside.  Fine as it is, but that would be my personal hope if we had to redo the gimmick of one line.

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4 hours ago, Zaydin said:

From a gameplay perspective, maybe it is balanced, but it is not fun to play against.

Not fun to play as either. HE spam bored me to tears with rn bbs and usn ca/cls... give me a brawling kurfurst, a face tanking yammie, or a squishy dpm monster like minotaur any day over HE spam-botes.

Conq is balanced... its just tedious from both sides.

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I have never been that happy with the balance between AP and HE.    The issue only gets worse when you have smaller ships shooting larger ones.  I was personally hoping the RN BBs would be more like the warspite than what they are now. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, CaliburxZero said:

If there's a BB line that needs reworking, I would rather have them choose the Germans.  The guns are frustrating as heck, for having an untouchable citadel that doesn't mean alot to more skilled play, not to mention it breeding less-than-ideal habits for BB players and giving broadside.  Fine as it is, but that would be my personal hope if we had to redo the gimmick of one line.

I am going to guess some day the captain skills will be reworked.  I would hope skills that are always useful will not cost the same as, or be cheaper, than skills that are not consistent or very RNG dependent.  That would be mean secondary/AA build skills would not cost the same as survival unless skills were so powerful to make them worth it.  I would also hope for less there is only one viable build for each type of ship, and instead have multiple builds that are balanced but different. 

 

I guess we will see when the RU BBs come out, if the KM BBs are power crept enough to get some QoL buffs. 

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6 hours ago, kgh52 said:

But for balance 127mm & smaller HE can burn a BB to the point of sinking. All for balance.

HP are more a measure of how long a ship can fight. The fact that it's rendered as sinking is just to remive any doubt that its out of the game.

Arkansas may not have sunk, but had it had a crew on board, it would have been 100% combat ineffective. (and likely mobility-wise too)

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