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Droz1937

CV Observation

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I understand a lot of people hate CVs in their game. One thing I have noticed is that skilled CV players are dropping 50% of their squad (or more) so that they can make strikes and lose few aircraft. Some of the complaints are that CVs spot too fast.

 

As a CV player myself, I understand the frustration and enjoy the CVs...they are far weaker than before, but still need work.

1. I believe a reduced Squad Size would be worthwhile. Skilled players are already dropping the size, but they benefit from the decrease in loss. So a smaller starting squad will help stop this.

2. A longer launch time, at least at the beginning of the battle, would help tremendously. It used to take several minutes with the strat play before planes launched and became effective. At this point strategy does not matter because CVs can early start spot and ruin surprise.

3. Citadel by AP is too frequent for skilled players, Rocket damage on DDs is too high for skilled players, and HE fires are too frequent. Reductions in all these areas would help balance and reduce the outcry.

4. A reduction in the combined AA dmg was needed, but at this point it was decreased too much. CVs are great at reducing solo warriors and back line campers, but small groups need to have better AA.

 

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Another CV nerf thread... 

 

Silly me to think I would see something different.

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26 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

Another CV nerf thread... 

 

Silly me to think I would see something different.

I’m not complaining. I say the more the merrier.

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39 minutes ago, Droz1937 said:

I understand a lot of people hate CVs in their game. One thing I have noticed is that skilled CV players are dropping 50% of their squad (or more) so that they can make strikes and lose few aircraft. Some of the complaints are that CVs spot too fast.

 

As a CV player myself, I understand the frustration and enjoy the CVs...they are far weaker than before, but still need work.

1. I believe a reduced Squad Size would be worthwhile. Skilled players are already dropping the size, but they benefit from the decrease in loss. So a smaller starting squad will help stop this.

2. A longer launch time, at least at the beginning of the battle, would help tremendously. It used to take several minutes with the strat play before planes launched and became effective. At this point strategy does not matter because CVs can early start spot and ruin surprise.

3. Citadel by AP is too frequent for skilled players, Rocket damage on DDs is too high for skilled players, and HE fires are too frequent. Reductions in all these areas would help balance and reduce the outcry.

4. A reduction in the combined AA dmg was needed, but at this point it was decreased too much. CVs are great at reducing solo warriors and back line campers, but small groups need to have better AA.

 

There is one common thing in everything you are saying, skilled player aka unicum. There is no way to nerf them without nerfing those that are average or lower.

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Most CV players

다운로드 (9).png

Edited by Nagato_Kai__Ni
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2 hours ago, Droz1937 said:

I understand a lot of people hate CVs in their game. One thing I have noticed is that skilled CV players are dropping 50% of their squad (or more) so that they can make strikes and lose few aircraft. Some of the complaints are that CVs spot too fast.

 

As a CV player myself, I understand the frustration and enjoy the CVs...they are far weaker than before, but still need work.

1. I believe a reduced Squad Size would be worthwhile. Skilled players are already dropping the size, but they benefit from the decrease in loss. So a smaller starting squad will help stop this.

2. A longer launch time, at least at the beginning of the battle, would help tremendously. It used to take several minutes with the strat play before planes launched and became effective. At this point strategy does not matter because CVs can early start spot and ruin surprise.

3. Citadel by AP is too frequent for skilled players, Rocket damage on DDs is too high for skilled players, and HE fires are too frequent. Reductions in all these areas would help balance and reduce the outcry.

4. A reduction in the combined AA dmg was needed, but at this point it was decreased too much. CVs are great at reducing solo warriors and back line campers, but small groups need to have better AA.

 

   If you played CV's more you would understand these nerfs are too much; damage and dots are necessary to make up for the far higher alpha of the RTS CV's. I can agree that a small delay in the intial launch is okay. Keep with the ideas though, good of you to put your opinion out there.

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So how do I test my AA ships in a Training Room....  Oh..  I don't.

But they are working on it.  Someday....   Never mind the promises... 

And my Ranger draws a Normandie in Co-op..  The bot Normandie institively parks itself next to an Atlanta or Cleveland.

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13 minutes ago, Nagato_Kai__Ni said:

Most CV players

다운로드 (9).png

So true.

Me playing CVs is 85% finding the low hanging fruit and picking it.

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Well my own opinion on each of these:

4: Eh... AA feels about right in terms of average damage right now, it just needs flak to be more consistent rather waffling between annihilating entire squadrons with overlapping bursts and leaving convenient plane-shaped holes to fly through repeatedly.

3: Not really? Are we looking at the same AP citadels? Because I hardly notice the damage increase most times. As for rockets... I don't think that an across-the-board nerf to damage AGAIN will help. Maybe give destroyers some built-in resistance to rocket attacks so that they can survive longer, but other classes are still effected the same way?

2: Already in the works. I agree with the theory, not so sure about the times the devs chose, but that's a quibble. It's coming, it'll help.

1: What? No nonononono! You have watched how your squadrons get damaged, yes? This would make them much easier to destroy than you intend. Squadron health is a VERY touchy thing, to the point that just removing a few planes from the default squadron size can lead to a massive nerf in survivability. Doing so voluntarily is one thing, those planes get put BACK into your reserves. But it's done because otherwise the player doesn't expect them to SURVIVE. If there's no corresponding adjustment of HP, regen, or on-deck reserves then this would be a HUGE nerf.

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2 hours ago, Droz1937 said:

I understand a lot of people hate CVs in their game. One thing I have noticed is that skilled CV players are dropping 50% of their squad (or more) so that they can make strikes and lose few aircraft. Some of the complaints are that CVs spot too fast.

 

As a CV player myself, I understand the frustration and enjoy the CVs...they are far weaker than before, but still need work.

1. I believe a reduced Squad Size would be worthwhile. Skilled players are already dropping the size, but they benefit from the decrease in loss. So a smaller starting squad will help stop this.

2. A longer launch time, at least at the beginning of the battle, would help tremendously. It used to take several minutes with the strat play before planes launched and became effective. At this point strategy does not matter because CVs can early start spot and ruin surprise.

3. Citadel by AP is too frequent for skilled players, Rocket damage on DDs is too high for skilled players, and HE fires are too frequent. Reductions in all these areas would help balance and reduce the outcry.

4. A reduction in the combined AA dmg was needed, but at this point it was decreased too much. CVs are great at reducing solo warriors and back line campers, but small groups need to have better AA.

 

We already getting a delayed launch at the start of the match with the next patch.

Reducing squad size isn't going to help anyone.  You also want to reduce the amount of damage from our hardest hitting aircraft including a reduce fire chance.  We already have an abysmal flooding chance.  Doing this will reduce CV damage output by a large amount, maybe even to a point of being almost non-existent, and it means we'll have plenty of aircraft to use late game cause our squadrons are smaller.

 

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2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

There is one common thing in everything you are saying, skilled player aka unicum. There is no way to nerf them without nerfing those that are average or lower.

The skill gap is not being addressed because it would require effort and nearly nobody is willing to make the effort.

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3 minutes ago, C14Alpha said:

The skill gap is not being addressed because it would require effort and nearly nobody is willing to make the effort.

Huh? Unicums destroy the rest of us no matter what ship they sail in. That is impossible to address.

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2 hours ago, Droz1937 said:

I understand a lot of people hate CVs in their game. One thing I have noticed is that skilled CV players are dropping 50% of their squad (or more) so that they can make strikes and lose few aircraft. Some of the complaints are that CVs spot too fast.

 

As a CV player myself, I understand the frustration and enjoy the CVs...they are far weaker than before, but still need work.

1. I believe a reduced Squad Size would be worthwhile. Skilled players are already dropping the size, but they benefit from the decrease in loss. So a smaller starting squad will help stop this.

2. A longer launch time, at least at the beginning of the battle, would help tremendously. It used to take several minutes with the strat play before planes launched and became effective. At this point strategy does not matter because CVs can early start spot and ruin surprise.

3. Citadel by AP is too frequent for skilled players, Rocket damage on DDs is too high for skilled players, and HE fires are too frequent. Reductions in all these areas would help balance and reduce the outcry.

4. A reduction in the combined AA dmg was needed, but at this point it was decreased too much. CVs are great at reducing solo warriors and back line campers, but small groups need to have better AA.

 

1) Unless it's an ability to pick the squad size (up to a given maximum) just no. If I'm not about to do something dumb, I don't manually thin out my strikes. It would be a straight up damage nerf, and remove the skill in managing the risk to your aircraft v/s the reward.

2) Is actually a straight up damage nerf, most teams won't get moving before any reasonable launch delay anyway. It just means at tier 10, a CV only has 19:15 to do damage in instead of 20 minutes.

3) Most AB bombs don't cause enough damage without a citadel to be worth while. Even if you get a citadel, it's kind of like getting a single citadel with a RN cruiser, it's meaningless unless you get a lot of them. It's not like you even get to use the full flight of dive bombers anyway with the insane stacking of AA, you need a full squad to soak enough AA damage to get off one run, and you frequently loose the rest trying to circle back around. Rockets are too inconsistent, perfectly aimed, and you're as likely to do good damage as you are for RNGsus to put every rocket in the water. If they were less effective, there would be no reason to launch them. I suspect the average damage they do to DD"s is close to right, it's just too swingy. Really the only effective anti-DD on CV's is the USN HE dive bombers.

4) There was barely any reduction in group AA at all. AA is also fine for small groups, it's usually good enough to keep me from making multiple passes with all the aircraft survival skills, which is actually probably a bit harsh to those without 14 or 15 point captains, or those with stock planes just getting into a CV.

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How absolutely asinine. You had me interested through 1 and 2, then you fell into the NERF ALL THE CV THINGS trap. Yawn.

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3 hours ago, Nagato_Kai__Ni said:

Most CV players

다운로드 (9).png

Wouldnt that be any enemy captain reguardless of ship type?  

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5 minutes ago, JToney3449 said:

Wouldnt that be any enemy captain reguardless of ship type?  

since we are talking CVs...

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12 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

Huh? Unicums destroy the rest of us no matter what ship they sail in. That is impossible to address.

Yes, there are things that can be addressed that directly impact the skill gap.

  • Straffing under the RTS system was highly skill-dependent and was eliminated to reduce the skill gap at lower tiers.
  • A torpedo arming delay prevents unicum players from being able to drop torps literally into the sides of ships.
  • A minimum arming height for bombs has been suggested to prevent unicum players from going to deck level before releasing bombs.

Better players will always be better players, but there is no reason to give them ridiculous advantages over other players through the game's mechanics.

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2 minutes ago, C14Alpha said:

Yes, there are things that can be addressed that directly impact the skill gap.

  • Straffing under the RTS system was highly skill-dependent and was eliminated to reduce the skill gap at lower tiers.
  • A torpedo arming delay prevents unicum players from being able to drop torps literally into the sides of ships.
  • A minimum arming height for bombs has been suggested to prevent unicum players from going to deck level before releasing bombs.

Better players will always be better players, but there is no reason to give them ridiculous advantages over other players through the game's mechanics.

There was and always has been an arming distance for torpedoes. The difference in the RTS days was there was no indication of where that point was and the unicums were able to literally drop at the line time after time.
A minimum arming height will hurt the less than unicum players far more than it hurts the unicums.

If you can find a way that reigns in the unicums without hurting everyone else even more great but I have never seen a nerf that didn't act that way. Buffs and nerfs have to be based on what the average player is able to do and not the extreme top players.

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15 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

Another CV nerf thread... 

 

Silly me to think I would see something different.

You would think there was a consensus or something. 

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7 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

A minimum arming height will hurt the less than unicum players far more than it hurts the unicums.

Isn't that always the response - that eliminating things only unicums can typically do will really hurt normal players.

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24 minutes ago, C14Alpha said:

Isn't that always the response - that eliminating things only unicums can typically do will really hurt normal players.

I'm still waiting on the reason why things need to be nerfed because unicums do them. Do unicum  BBs mandate a citadel size reduction incorporated because they know how to hit citadels? 

Edited by _Caliph_

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22 minutes ago, C14Alpha said:

Isn't that always the response - that eliminating things only unicums can typically do will really hurt normal players.

Anything that impacts the ability of the top players always impacts the lesser players far more.

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46 minutes ago, C14Alpha said:

Yes, there are things that can be addressed that directly impact the skill gap.

  • Straffing under the RTS system was highly skill-dependent and was eliminated to reduce the skill gap at lower tiers.
  • A torpedo arming delay prevents unicum players from being able to drop torps literally into the sides of ships.
  • A minimum arming height for bombs has been suggested to prevent unicum players from going to deck level before releasing bombs.

Better players will always be better players, but there is no reason to give them ridiculous advantages over other players through the game's mechanics.

Yes there is. It's the same reason we have citadel hits and such. It's called excitement and is the reason we don't all do 50 damage per hit as to make everyone equal. If you want enforced equality in a game where your skill doesn't matter then go play tic tac toe.

Edited by _Caliph_

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1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

Anything that impacts the ability of the top players always impacts the lesser players far more.

Well, that is certainly the excuse that is consistently offered, isn't it?

Remind me how eliminating RTS manual drops and forcing unicums to use automated drops like most players already did was so detrimental to lesser players.

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1 hour ago, _Caliph_ said:

Yes there is. It's the same reason we have citadel hits and such. It's called excitement and is the reason we don't all do 50 damage per hit as to make everyone equal. If you want enforced equality in a game where your skill doesn't matter then go play tic tac toe.

Nah, I'll just enjoy watching WG continue to nerf CVs into the floor because people don't want to even try to contribute ideas for balancing CVs at T10 without destroying CV ability at other tiers.

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