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Col_Nasty

Ramming question

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SO I just got rammed in my BB by another BB that I had down to a SLIVER of HP left.  I was kickin his bot azz.  I still had over 60k he had nothing.  He rams me we BOTH die.  Now I asked in game and I was told that a ship gives 100% of Max heath in damage when ramming no matter how little they have left.  If that is true how is this fair?  I know it's just a bot but the other player got 60K Damage I got 1000 and I lost my ship.  If that is how it works what keeps me from YOLOing into ships all day long to get max points as I die??  Something is off here.

BTW to the more sensitive people who haunt this forum ,,THIS IS A QUESTION.

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3 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

SO I just got rammed in my BB by another BB that I had down to a SLIVER of HP left.  I was kickin his bot azz.  I still had over 60k he had nothing.  He rams me we BOTH die.  Now I asked in game and I was told that a ship gives 100% of Max heath in damage when ramming no matter how little they have left.  If that is true how is this fair?  I know it's just a bot but the other player got 60K Damage I got 1000 and I lost my ship.  If that is how it works what keeps me from YOLOing into ships all day long to get max points as I die??  Something is off here.

BTW to the more sensitive people who haunt this forum ,,THIS IS A QUESTION.

It works in the same way that losing health also doesn't change the amount of damage a ship can do with it's guns (as long as the guns are still working). As far as damage output is concerned, health doesn't matter in this game.  A ship can have 1 hp and still do it's normal damage with it's armament.

This is fair because it is applied equally to the ships on both teams.

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I am honestly not sure why this ramming mechanic is a thing - it is a valid desperation tactic when you are at low HP and losing a brawl, however the automatic 100% damage algorithm is a bit excessive, especially if you only clip the bow or the stern sections of a ship. 

I would rather ramming damage be a function of relative velocity, apply to the sections under contact and involve saturation mechanics. A full speed collision to the broadside should probably deal damage equal to the ship with lower max HP as it does now, but clipping their bow at 5 knots should only do a few thousand damage to each. 

  • Cool 1

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4 minutes ago, MaxL_1023 said:

I would rather ramming damage be a function of relative velocity

Speed does factor in to ramming damage. Low speed rams do relatively little damage. 

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6 minutes ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

Speed does factor in to ramming damage. Low speed rams do relatively little damage. 

he was barely moving and turned into me at the last second.. I was in full reverse.  

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1 minute ago, Col_Nasty said:

he was barely moving and turned into me at the last second.. I was in full reverse.  

"Speed is the factor which determines the level of damage inflicted to another ship. ... Low-speed collisions do not inflict a high level of damage.  The amount of damage is dependent on the speed of impact."

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

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14 minutes ago, MaxL_1023 said:

I am honestly not sure why this ramming mechanic is a thing - it is a valid desperation tactic when you are at low HP and losing a brawl, however the automatic 100% damage algorithm is a bit excessive, especially if you only clip the bow or the stern sections of a ship. 

I would rather ramming damage be a function of relative velocity, apply to the sections under contact and involve saturation mechanics. A full speed collision to the broadside should probably deal damage equal to the ship with lower max HP as it does now, but clipping their bow at 5 knots should only do a few thousand damage to each. 

You could also factor in the angle of attack, whether one ship cleaves another in half with its bow, or if they're just rubbing sides like pirate ships preparing to board each other.

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The HPs of each ship at their full HPs is applied to both ships remaining HP pool as damage. So even though it had a sliver of HPs you received in damage what he had a full health.   At least that is the way it used too work.   It is a valid tactic if you are fixing to die.     

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A 25,000 ton battleship at full health is still a 25,000 ton battleship at 1% health. Instead of trying to factor in complex math, WG just makes it hurt regardless. Makes sense to me.

Edited by Harathan

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23 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

SO I just got rammed in my BB by another BB that I had down to a SLIVER of HP left.  I was kickin his bot azz.  I still had over 60k he had nothing.  He rams me we BOTH die.  Now I asked in game and I was told that a ship gives 100% of Max heath in damage when ramming no matter how little they have left.  If that is true how is this fair?  I know it's just a bot but the other player got 60K Damage I got 1000 and I lost my ship.  If that is how it works what keeps me from YOLOing into ships all day long to get max points as I die??  Something is off here.

BTW to the more sensitive people who haunt this forum ,,THIS IS A QUESTION.

Equip a ramming flag. Problem solved. 

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20 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

SO I just got rammed in my BB by another BB that I had down to a SLIVER of HP left.  I was kickin his bot azz.  I still had over 60k he had nothing.  He rams me we BOTH die.... If that is true how is this fair?  I know it's just a bot but the other player got 60K Damage I got 1000 and I lost my ship.  If that is how it works what keeps me from YOLOing into ships all day long to get max points as I die??  Something is off here.

If you get rammed by a 67,000-ton battleship, it still weighs67,000 tons, even if it is 95% used up.

By the same token , don’t let it step on your foot, either.

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12 minutes ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

"Speed is the factor which determines the level of damage inflicted to another ship. ... Low-speed collisions do not inflict a high level of damage.  The amount of damage is dependent on the speed of impact."

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ramming

Well with all respect to WIKI  I had 60K HP left so there's that .................

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The speed threshold in avoiding full HP damage is very very.....very small, anything above a few knots is gonna do near or full HP damage.

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 What a few others have said, paraphrased....

 60k tons of steel hitting you is gonna hurt. Doesnt matter the condition. It can be a barge full of scrap or a fully functional BB. You're gonna feel it.

 Then there is repair party... ramming damage is potentially 100% repairable. Nelson can ram kill an Okt Rev and be back to 100% in two heals... which is pure fantasy and hilarious when the red team realizes it.

 

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30 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

Well with all respect to WIKI  I had 60K HP left so there's that .................

BB vs BB ramming = No survivors, this is because ramming  takes %100 HP dmg of the lower ships total HP. 

Only chance for a survival (which is the for all class ships),

  1. is to mount the ramming flag THEN
  2. Ram a ship with lower total HP then you.

For example Yamato with ram flag AND 115k HP vs Yamato with out one and stock HP of  97k HP.

In the scenario,

  • if  one or two yammies fall under the total HP of the smaller ship when rammed, no one will live.
  • If the one yammi with the flag AND 115k HP manages to Ram the other 97k yamato, then the Yammi with the flag with AND have about 5k HP left give or take.

The same principle is applied to smaller ships.

IF a DD rams a BB its survivable IF the BB is more HP then the total HP of the DD.  With a mid tier DD being at 11.5k, a mid tier BB has been known (its in a jingles replay) when possible, get 2 ramming achievement. (its equivalent of a torp hit)

A little bit of history, one of the Halloween event operations. You had to ram the trans to sink it, if not its a loss.

I think ramming is funny and useful. Hilarity is guaranteed when you know someone is going for the ram.

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The question is moot in the context of a battle. Whatever the *actual* outcome, both ships are hors de combat (out of the battle)  when ramming occurs. Ramming is an entirely viable tactic; however, you need to be psychic to know when to put the ramming flag on... ;)

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There was just a video here in the forums of two CVs ramming and absolutely nothing happened.  No damage to either ship, it was like running into an island.

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2 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

BB vs BB ramming = No survivors, this is because ramming  takes %100 HP dmg of the lower ships total HP. 

Only chance for a survival (which is the for all class ships),

  1. is to mount the ramming flag THEN
  2. Ram a ship with lower total HP then you.

For example Yamato with ram flag AND 115k HP vs Yamato with out one and stock HP of  97k HP.

In the scenario,

  • if  one or two yammies fall under the total HP of the smaller ship when rammed, no one will live.
  • If the one yammi with the flag AND 115k HP manages to Ram the other 97k yamato, then the Yammi with the flag with AND have about 5k HP left give or take.

Actually the 97k health Yamato with the flag will be left with 19,400 hp after ramming the 115k Yamato.

The way the flag works is that the -20% damage reduction caps the max damage potential to the flag equipped ship not from the opposing ship.

So it doesn't matter how big the HP difference is between the two ships, the ship with the flag will never take more than 80% of it's own health in damage as long as it has more than 80% of its HP right before the ram.

 

This has already been tested multiple times to confirm it. In fact a Harugumo with survivability expert and ram flag can ram kill most tier 9 BBs at full HP provided if the DD has at least more than 80% health and has enough momentum to inflict another full HP ram.

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4 hours ago, DouglasMacAwful said:

Speed does factor in to ramming damage. Low speed rams do relatively little damage. 

I'm pretty sure this is correct, although I don't know the formula … 

I do know that a decent cruiser at full speed can kill a BB if he rams bow first into its vulnerable side 

I can't remember exactly, but I think I've done it in a DD to a cruiser as well?

I always hit the gas before a good ram regardless of who has the bigger ship :)

Edited by Commander_367

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37 minutes ago, Vader_Sama said:

The way the flag works is that the -20% damage reduction caps the max damage potential to the flag equipped ship not from the opposing ship.

So it doesn't matter how big the HP difference is between the two ships, the ship with the flag will never take more than 80% of it's own health in damage as long as it has more than 80% of its HP right before the ram.

This has already been tested multiple times to confirm it. In fact a Harugumo with survivability expert and ram flag can ram kill most tier 9 BBs at full HP provided if the DD has at least more than 80% health and has enough momentum to inflict another full HP ram.

I think I'm going to have to do some rigorous testing on my own to confirm this … 

I predict much salt :)

Edited by Commander_367

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4 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

Well with all respect to WIKI  I had 60K HP left so there's that .................

Basically, a twisted, burning hulk of a 35000-ton BB, and a shiny new 35000-ton BB are both still 35000 tons of steel, (well, not really, displacement and all, but you know what I mean) with the same amount of inertia.

Just remember that when you ram another ship, you take as much damage as he has max HP. In general, don't ram another ship unless you're almost dead, or you're above 1/2 HP, and you're ramming a smaller ship (BB/CV vs. CA/CL, CA/CL vs. DD)

 

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4 hours ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

The question is moot in the context of a battle. Whatever the *actual* outcome, both ships are hors de combat (out of the battle)  when ramming occurs. Ramming is an entirely viable tactic; however, you need to be psychic to know when to put the ramming flag on... ;)

I dunno, it can be very satisfying to T-bone a DD in smoke with a CA, especially when he's backing up and can't get out of the way, and you nail him at 30+ knots....:Smile_teethhappy:

You walk away with over half your health, and the DD......doesn't.

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10 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

I dunno, it can be very satisfying to T-bone a DD in smoke with a CA, especially when he's backing up and can't get out of the way, and you nail him at 30+ knots....:Smile_teethhappy:

You walk away with over half your health, and the DD......doesn't.

Hey, you are preaching to the converted. ;)

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3 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Hey, you are preaching to the converted. ;)

To be fair, the last time I did that, it wasn't on purpose. I just figured that, with Pensa's slow reload, it was the only way to take him down before he got far enough away to torp me lol.

I did once get a Die Hard in a Umikaze though....:Smile_trollface:

Edited by Skpstr

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