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Admiral_Thrawn_1

Thought of a way to ease the CV tension a little

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I got thinking about the problems plaguing DDs when facing CVs. And the best idea I can think of is traveling convoy style, which can work since if DDs are taking point they can turn back and run under the AA of a CA or more often in practice an AA equipped BB due to the fact CAs fighting off incoming aircraft while under long range heavy shell fire is not always practical.

Wargaming may need to post some guide vids about the benifits of sailing in escort formations or something so that the General playerbase can get a chance to see how to do it. I am not talking about going into defensive campouts behind islands, or lemming training. Just forming small highly mobile strike forces instead. Like in Randoms a little while back I had my Missouri and informed team at start on my flank I would protect them if they traveled with me. So ended up with 2 DDs that were on either side of me and would go out about 3-6km ahead of me and could easily fall back if a CA showed up. They were mainly actualing as torpedo spotters for me, and would help take out a DD if spotted. They also had my AA to protect them if planes showed up. We did have 1 tier 7 BB traveling about 5km off my stern which kept them safer from focused attacks and helped provide that extra firepower. This little group of ships was able to travel at speed  and stay if effective formations,( although my Missouri did have to go to 3/4 speed few times to avoid outing my escorts lol). Fun this was I was able to have this happen without a division, just Random playets I politely explained things to at battle start. And this kind of group you can easily have CAs replace the BBs as long as the DDs have smoke.

Another idea I have had is Wargaming needs to be clear on how much XP / credits doing damage to aircraft and how much shooting down planes is worth. Because if players knew they were making gains in currency when defending against aircraft, instead of possibly suffered no losses in progress then maybe things will seem a little more positive. And if you gain little to nothing over Aircraft HP damage and planes shot down then XP and credit values will need to be added.

And finally with the ability to speed boost through Flak, the extending of AA ranges might need to be considered once again. This would aid in the better protection of allied DDs. Because at the moment a DD may need to ram into a BB or CA in order to get deep enough under their protection AA zones.

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What happens when there is no major threat of damage to the BB/CA but it turns back towards spawn and the DD wants to proceed to cap?

That plan doesn't work when your team needs that cap to win.

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Face it....the focus is CV...CV....CV....CV....  You see it on the MM screen..you sit in queue until the fourth CV appears ..you see it in game.  The rest of us are there for the CV show....if your side has two good CVs...and the other doesn't...you win.....and vice versa....you lose.

And after two months...it is obvious WG doesn't give one hoot or care for the time you took to write your post (or mine).  Your post is well thought out....ashame it was a waste of time.  Just played my Tirpitz...sank 4.......but our CVs sunk none...and one got sunk within 5 minutes...the other side CVs sank 4.....same ole same ole..

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39 minutes ago, FiveStarMojo said:

What happens when there is no major threat of damage to the BB/CA but it turns back towards spawn and the DD wants to proceed to cap?

That plan doesn't work when your team needs that cap to win.

The BB gets smoke screened while healing, and actually the amount of damage taken is lessened thanks to the fact if your staying in formation and working together odd are your focus firing enemy ships as well.

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Lack of information has been the bane of the CV rework, and generally World of Warships itself.

I'm all for better information and tutorials, the game has needed them since launch.

Not sure on extending AA ranges, the AA stacking is out of hand already, maybe adding to the range, but capping AA damage & flak bursts at 3 ships could work. That still won't satisfy those that insist on removal of CV's (not happening with the recent CV sales) or that want immunity or being able to opt out of CV's (also not happening)

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1 hour ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Just forming small highly mobile strike forces instead.

This is a dream. We are never going to have effective team work in random battles with random players. It might happen somethimes, but its more by accident than anything else. 

1 hour ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

So ended up with 2 DDs that were on either side of me and would go out about 3-6km ahead of me and could easily fall back if a CA showed up. They were mainly actualing as torpedo spotters for me, and would help take out a DD if spotted. 

This seems some really boring gameplay from te DD side. You could just take a cruiser/Bb with hydro/radar and do the same thing "spotting torps/dds" while also being able to shoot at other ships. 

1 hour ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Another idea I have had is Wargaming needs to be clear on how much XP / credits doing damage to aircraft and how much shooting down planes is worth. Because if players knew they were making gains in currency when defending against aircraft, instead of possibly suffered no losses in progress then maybe things will seem a little more positive. And if you gain little to nothing over Aircraft HP damage and planes shot down then XP and credit values will need to be added.

IMO this doesnt matter how much XP/credits im getting from planes, im not taking any active participation in doing that. Its all on a automatic AI system. 

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My solution—take a shot of tequila for every red CV you play against

makes me comfortably numb

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There was a really good guide on reddit recently about playing DDs with CVs, one of the major points was:

Playing escort is NOT, REPEAT, NOT the key to a high winrate. Find opportunities for high-risk, high-reward attacks. Survive and repeat. Rotate often.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/bhtraw/very_long_post_detailed_critical_reflections_and/

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I would be fine if they shifted some of a ship’s close and mid-range AA power to its long-range aura, to facilitate better AA escort function. But just adding range or damage to long-range auras themselves without any corresponding rebalance to other aspects of AA would just make strong AA ships even more skewed. 

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Remove CVs from the game, a simple and elegant solution :)   But will say this...rarely play high Tier DDs anymore, did have a a good game in my Daring last week....oh wait no CVs in that game lol.   Also now playing only heavy AA ships at high tier....the Alaska is a beast...Texas for lower tier games is fun, many noob CV players think...ah juicy BB...lol

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1 hour ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I got thinking about the problems plaguing DDs when facing CVs. And the best idea I can think of is traveling convoy style, which can work since if DDs are taking point they can turn back and run under the AA of a CA or more often in practice an AA equipped BB due to the fact CAs fighting off incoming aircraft while under long range heavy shell fire is not always practical.

Wargaming may need to post some guide vids about the benifits of sailing in escort formations or something so that the General playerbase can get a chance to see how to do it. I am not talking about going into defensive campouts behind islands, or lemming training. Just forming small highly mobile strike forces instead. Like in Randoms a little while back I had my Missouri and informed team at start on my flank I would protect them if they traveled with me. So ended up with 2 DDs that were on either side of me and would go out about 3-6km ahead of me and could easily fall back if a CA showed up. They were mainly actualing as torpedo spotters for me, and would help take out a DD if spotted. They also had my AA to protect them if planes showed up. We did have 1 tier 7 BB traveling about 5km off my stern which kept them safer from focused attacks and helped provide that extra firepower. This little group of ships was able to travel at speed  and stay if effective formations,( although my Missouri did have to go to 3/4 speed few times to avoid outing my escorts lol). Fun this was I was able to have this happen without a division, just Random playets I politely explained things to at battle start. And this kind of group you can easily have CAs replace the BBs as long as the DDs have smoke.

Another idea I have had is Wargaming needs to be clear on how much XP / credits doing damage to aircraft and how much shooting down planes is worth. Because if players knew they were making gains in currency when defending against aircraft, instead of possibly suffered no losses in progress then maybe things will seem a little more positive. And if you gain little to nothing over Aircraft HP damage and planes shot down then XP and credit values will need to be added.

And finally with the ability to speed boost through Flak, the extending of AA ranges might need to be considered once again. This would aid in the better protection of allied DDs. Because at the moment a DD may need to ram into a BB or CA in order to get deep enough under their protection AA zones.

No Lemming trains please. Period

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24 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

There was a really good guide on reddit recently about playing DDs with CVs, one of the major points was:

Playing escort is NOT, REPEAT, NOT the key to a high winrate. Find opportunities for high-risk, high-reward attacks. Survive and repeat. Rotate often.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/bhtraw/very_long_post_detailed_critical_reflections_and/

This is a good read.  As an average DD player I can identify and agree with every point he made.

Assertion 8 sums it up nicely.  Subjectively, destroyer play has definitely become more stressful. Overall I have still continued to enjoy DD games, but the variance to my enjoyment factor has increased.

He's purple, I'm not.  I can still enjoy some DD games but they are limited to T7 and below battles.  Even at T7 those enjoyable DD battles are still rare.

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1 hour ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

There was a really good guide on reddit recently about playing DDs with CVs, one of the major points was:

Playing escort is NOT, REPEAT, NOT the key to a high winrate. Find opportunities for high-risk, high-reward attacks. Survive and repeat. Rotate often.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/bhtraw/very_long_post_detailed_critical_reflections_and/

Wow, that was a really good read.  Very insightful.

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2 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I got thinking about the problems plaguing DDs when facing CVs. And the best idea I can think of is traveling convoy style, which can work since if DDs are taking point they can turn back and run under the AA of a CA or more often in practice an AA equipped BB due to the fact CAs fighting off incoming aircraft while under long range heavy shell fire is not always practical.

Wargaming may need to post some guide vids about the benifits of sailing in escort formations or something so that the General playerbase can get a chance to see how to do it. I am not talking about going into defensive campouts behind islands, or lemming training. Just forming small highly mobile strike forces instead. Like in Randoms a little while back I had my Missouri and informed team at start on my flank I would protect them if they traveled with me. So ended up with 2 DDs that were on either side of me and would go out about 3-6km ahead of me and could easily fall back if a CA showed up. They were mainly actualing as torpedo spotters for me, and would help take out a DD if spotted. They also had my AA to protect them if planes showed up. We did have 1 tier 7 BB traveling about 5km off my stern which kept them safer from focused attacks and helped provide that extra firepower. This little group of ships was able to travel at speed  and stay if effective formations,( although my Missouri did have to go to 3/4 speed few times to avoid outing my escorts lol). Fun this was I was able to have this happen without a division, just Random playets I politely explained things to at battle start. And this kind of group you can easily have CAs replace the BBs as long as the DDs have smoke.

Another idea I have had is Wargaming needs to be clear on how much XP / credits doing damage to aircraft and how much shooting down planes is worth. Because if players knew they were making gains in currency when defending against aircraft, instead of possibly suffered no losses in progress then maybe things will seem a little more positive. And if you gain little to nothing over Aircraft HP damage and planes shot down then XP and credit values will need to be added.

And finally with the ability to speed boost through Flak, the extending of AA ranges might need to be considered once again. This would aid in the better protection of allied DDs. Because at the moment a DD may need to ram into a BB or CA in order to get deep enough under their protection AA zones.

Thanks for a taking a whack at this mess....  Short answer: no....  You can't fix a non-problem with another work around...  This sales gimmick, if it isn't going away, is the end of the historic era of WoWs.....  The game now is "just an early adult shooter,"    OP, you are suggesting "team theory" in a game that is a FPS and getting even more, FPS than before....   Take for example that now you can "buy" the "Grind" at half cost....  To get to Tier 10 ships without a long grind....  Yep.  We are there.  And, you can now buy Legendary Upgrades.....  Why would they do this????    The answer is as I have stated:  a young adult, none historical, arcade shooter, in a small map Free-for-All outline........ 

OP, that can't be fixed and what we are seeing seems to "just be the start of endless gimmicks...."   Thanks for your time and good intentions !  They were well thought out and were germane, last year........not anymore.  Sorry, it seems the new ship has left the port and either you are on it or you, are not....  This will be a good discussion with the Clan tonight to see what ship we want to be on..........

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2 hours ago, FiveStarMojo said:

What happens when there is no major threat of damage to the BB/CA but it turns back towards spawn and the DD wants to proceed to cap?

That plan doesn't work when your team needs that cap to win.

Capture points are not often the deciding factor. Sometimes you just need to bite the bullet and go with your team. Although I've had no issue as DD because most of their smoke screens last long enough to guarantee a capture point. 

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Wouldn't it make more sense for everyone to just play AA BB's and/or CA's? Why should a DD driver want to play that ship in this meta?

The risks far outweigh the rewards. The DD has always been a high risk/high reward kind of ship, but now, it's mainly just high risk.

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It's not going to ease the tension.  Most of the tension is from people who aren't actually worried about CV balance.  Their problem is that CVs are present at all.

 

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I like your idea however the playerbase at moment isnt going cooperate that often.

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5 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I got thinking about the problems plaguing DDs when facing CVs. And the best idea I can think of is traveling convoy style, which can work since if DDs are taking point they can turn back and run under the AA of a CA or more often in practice an AA equipped BB due to the fact CAs fighting off incoming aircraft while under long range heavy shell fire is not always practical.

Nah. I refuse to have to lemming train every game over and over again just because otherwise an invulnerable class can damage me with impunity in a way that makes OWSF look like peanuts fore damage and a high risk maneuver. Or not so much as I refuse as much as I flat cannot bear playing that and therefore will not play.

 

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1 minute ago, ModDestroyer_1 said:

Nah. I refuse to have to lemming train every game over and over again just because otherwise an invulnerable class can damage me with impunity in a way that makes OWSF look like peanuts fore damage and a high risk maneuver. Or not so much as I refuse as much as I flat cannot bear playing that and therefore will not play.

 

Then just wait for Submarines when you can escape beneath the waves when ever the planes show up. You can then proceed to sink the CVs each battle. That is the wild card I am waiting to play in order to send the CVs back into being a more rarely played class again. 

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19 hours ago, mavfin87 said:

 Their problem is that CVs are present at all.

Yes. But WHY?

  • Because CVs were ALWAYS by universal opinion OP and broken and it was always the fact they were so absent that made it bearable; so it is a lie to pretend this issue actually started with the rework. The rework just made the once rare issue now ubiquitous and intolerable.
  • Because CVs are essentially invulnerable while the game isn't already won/lost, and have the advantage of being able to be anywhere and attack from point blank; all the trappings of why OFSW was removed and smoke was nerfed by radar. Thus grossly violating already established gameplay principles.
  • Because CVs deal damage almost no matter where you are and there is far less counter play or avoidance available compared to damage from any other class; you can do much more to avoid even being a target of DD torps or BB shells in ways you cannot for planes.
  • Because they force you to play in crap repetitive lemming trains which is a tactic that has been made fun of since forever... seriously this garbage the community has been making fun  of since forever is how we 'have' to play the game now? Rofl. That is just a joke really.
  • Because they remove or generally tend to ruin other gameplay options and strategies people enjoyed and generally just reduce the options and thus enjoyment of every other class. There is also nothing about interacting with CVs that is ever fun for other ships and also is never rewarding.
Edited by ModDestroyer_1
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3 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Then just wait for Submarines when you can escape beneath the waves when ever the planes show up. You can then proceed to sink the CVs each battle. That is the wild card I am waiting to play in order to send the CVs back into being a more rarely played class again. 

I'm right there with you. I think it would be great.

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16 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Then just wait for Submarines when you can escape beneath the waves when ever the planes show up. You can then proceed to sink the CVs each battle. That is the wild card I am waiting to play in order to send the CVs back into being a more rarely played class again. 

God this would be even more stupid since if anything planes were among the biggest ASW weapons during the WWII era... And then there are going to be 2 CVs and 2 subs per game so just less target for the surface ships to really have a fun fight against.

Anyway I thought the sub event was a failure. Don't think they will be adding it. But who knows. They probably can't ruin it more than they have.

Edited by ModDestroyer_1
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5 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I am not talking about going into defensive campouts behind islands, or lemming training. Just forming small highly mobile strike forces instead.

Who's going to be in charge of this mobile strike force of randomly assembled players who've probably never worked together before and might never do so again?

I don't mind random teammates, but I want the freedom to treat them as nonessential.  I don't want my survival to be predicated upon the decision making of some guy with a 44% win rate who doesn't seem to be paying any attention to chat but I've got to spend the whole game within 4 km of him because he's in a Worchester and I'm in a Kagero.

And it's made doubly offensive by the fact that CV's don't need to closely coordinate with their own teammates.  For all the time CV players spend lecturing surface ship players about not going off on "lone wolf" missions, the CV doesn't require any teammates for AA defense, spotting or screening.  It basically doesn't need teammates for any specific function at all other than to prevent it from getting overwhelmed by the enemy team while it acts very independently.

Edited by Vaidency
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