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Ski206

55 Knot destroyers

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I know this is a game......

But it’s traditionally at least been one grounded in reality. Iowa class BB’s have 9 16” 50’s because they really did. They have a maximum speed of 33 knots because they really did. Even fictional ship types like the Seattle are grounded in the realities of their era.

But these new French DD’s that can run around at 55 knots seem much more like some kids crazy dream than a paper ship that bears any realation to reality. As far as I can tell the Le Fantasque class destroyers are the fastest ever built with one member of that class hitting 45 knots on trials. That’s for a 2600 ton ship on 81000 SHP. The class when refitted for war service saw their top speed fall to 37 knots. So clearly their speed record was set on a very light trial displacement not remotely reflective of service conditions. 

But know we have a successor class being tested which can run around at 55 knots. A brief study of power/speed requirements will tell you they are exponential. For example a Gearing has a top speed of 36.8 knots according to Wikipedia. That’s on 4 boilers and a rated 60,000 SHP. On two boilers and somewhat less than 1/2 power since you also have to account for hotel loads the class was good for 28 knots in normal service. So 8.8 extra knots takes at least another 30,000 SHP if not more. Which means to get to 45 knots in a Gearing would likely require another 60,000 SHP. 

So I suspect that in a French DD you would need at least 160,000 SHP on 2 shafts at very light loads to hit 55 knots. That’s nuts. By comparison and Iowa Plant at 212,000 SHP is around 106,000 on 2 shafts. If we push the Iowa into it’s designed in overboost ability (254,000 SHP) that’s 127,000 SHP on two shafts. Does anyone think you can fit half and Iowa plant into a DD hull? And remember even with half an Iowa plant in overboost we are still 33,000 SHP short of our estimate. 

Clearly we’ve moved beyond the hypothetical (like the Russian BB’s which feature armor and technology that was beyond the capability of the USSR to produce but which at least in theory might have been achievable by someone somewhere) into the realm of ludicrous fantasy. What’s next? An 80 knot destroyer or a 60 knot BB? As long as we are dealing in fantasy why not?

Frankly I don’t think fantasy is good for the game. Paper ships are one thing. But these French DD’s are in a completely different league. 

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This is a arcade game first, historical stuff second.  Khab long ago showed wg was willing to tweak stuff beyond reality.  

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We're finally going to get to answer the question, "If you catch up to a torpedo from behind, does it detonate?"

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Yeah, arcade game. The Terrible already boosts to 50+. 

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4 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

We're finally going to get to answer the question, "If you catch up to a torpedo from behind, does it detonate?"

Any pair of clanmates with a Black and a Le Terrible should be able to answer that question right now, yes?

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1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Any pair of clanmates with a Black and a Le Terrible should be able to answer that question right now, yes?

yup!  Just don't know if anyone's bothered yet.  I mean I'd put good money that it will detonate.  I'm sure torpedoes are modeled as single points that go off if they touch any part of a ship with sufficient depth.  But it would still be funny to see.

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3 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

yup!  Just don't know if anyone's bothered yet.  I mean I'd put good money that it will detonate.  I'm sure torpedoes are modeled as single points that go off if they touch any part of a ship with sufficient depth.  But it would still be funny to see.

We can look forward to seeing this in chat:

":etc_swear: NOOB TEAMKILLER, HAVEN'T YOU BEEN TOLD NOT TO FIRE TORPS WHEN FRIENDLIES ARE AHEAD OF YOU?"

"But... he was BEHIND me when I fired!"

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13 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

We're finally going to get to answer the question, "If you catch up to a torpedo from behind, does it detonate?"

Not if the torpedoes are from the Sims.

The new French DD's need have the option for a Road Runner perma camo which comes with a voice over 'Meep' 'Meep' when engine boost is used!

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28 minutes ago, Ski206 said:

I know this is a game......

But it’s traditionally at least been one grounded in reality. Iowa class BB’s have 9 16” 50’s because they really did. They have a maximum speed of 33 knots because they really did. Even fictional ship types like the Seattle are grounded in the realities of their era.

But these new French DD’s that can run around at 55 knots seem much more like some kids crazy dream than a paper ship that bears any realation to reality. As far as I can tell the Le Fantasque class destroyers are the fastest ever built with one member of that class hitting 45 knots on trials. That’s for a 2600 ton ship on 81000 SHP. The class when refitted for war service saw their top speed fall to 37 knots. So clearly their speed record was set on a very light trial displacement not remotely reflective of service conditions. 

But know we have a successor class being tested which can run around at 55 knots. A brief study of power/speed requirements will tell you they are exponential. For example a Gearing has a top speed of 36.8 knots according to Wikipedia. That’s on 4 boilers and a rated 60,000 SHP. On two boilers and somewhat less than 1/2 power since you also have to account for hotel loads the class was good for 28 knots in normal service. So 8.8 extra knots takes at least another 30,000 SHP if not more. Which means to get to 45 knots in a Gearing would likely require another 60,000 SHP. 

So I suspect that in a French DD you would need at least 160,000 SHP on 2 shafts at very light loads to hit 55 knots. That’s nuts. By comparison and Iowa Plant at 212,000 SHP is around 106,000 on 2 shafts. If we push the Iowa into it’s designed in overboost ability (254,000 SHP) that’s 127,000 SHP on two shafts. Does anyone think you can fit half and Iowa plant into a DD hull? And remember even with half an Iowa plant in overboost we are still 33,000 SHP short of our estimate. 

Clearly we’ve moved beyond the hypothetical (like the Russian BB’s which feature armor and technology that was beyond the capability of the USSR to produce but which at least in theory might have been achievable by someone somewhere) into the realm of ludicrous fantasy. What’s next? An 80 knot destroyer or a 60 knot BB? As long as we are dealing in fantasy why not?

Frankly I don’t think fantasy is good for the game. Paper ships are one thing. But these French DD’s are in a completely different league. 

The thin veil of sim has been wearing off for awhile. I think WG has milked the sim crowd as far as they can, now they are looking for a new crowd of Arcadians for fresh cash!:Smile_trollface:

"Queue Adam Sandler"

 

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35 minutes ago, Ski206 said:

 

Frankly I don’t think fantasy is good for the game. Paper ships are one thing. But these French DD’s are in a completely different league. 

A large portion of this game is fantasy.

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This is not a simulation. WG does a good job balancing reality and arcade elements. If they need to stretch reality a bit to make the French DD's more unique from other lines, I'm fine with that. 

Heck, the reality complainers ignore the fact that most high tier ships should have radar. 

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@Ski206 I wondered similar things about speed when reading the synopsis of the line.  Many DDs currently push the bounds of reality on speed, but these are going even further from reality.  I know there is a feeling that each nation needs a distinct "flavor" or "gimmick" and to some extent I get it, but it does stretch the bounds when many aspects of the game are meticulously modeled and others stretched or broken. 

Reality for the game is it really is closer to arcade than simulation, despite how realistic it looks.  Scale speeds are off across the board, no one wants to play a game where a 3% main battery hit rate is the norm.  Angling works here, crossing the T is a no-no.  A quick firing DD is a real threat to take out a lone BB in game with guns only, where in real life this would never happen. 

For me, as long as I still enjoy the game I'll be OK with it, but I do think some of the gimmicks need to reign in a bit or we'll be running space battles full time in the future.

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Welcome to the gimmick of the French DD line super speed and no smoke.

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51 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

We're finally going to get to answer the question, "If you catch up to a torpedo from behind, does it detonate?"

Yes, . I have caught up and contacted with torps before. You touch them from any direction they blow up .

Edited by Strachwitz666

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It's not impossible to design a 55 knot DD

What is truly impossible is a displacement hull ship that can do both 55 knots and accelerate to that speed in under 1min, unless you change the propulsion method.

Attaching some rockets on the back could certainly allow it, but traditional propellers would very likely disintegrate, as they can't be designed to have great acceleration and top speed.

something about excessive vibration and cavitation.

Edited by MrDeaf
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1 hour ago, Ski206 said:

The class when refitted for war service saw their top speed fall to 37 knots.

The Class Entered War with a top speed above 40 knots. It wasn't until a refit at Boston, that lowered their top speed, and saw them reclassified as light-cruisers.

Edited by Counter_Gambit

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It's not about reality vs arcade. It's about powercreep. Game companies know that power sells, and that many players have no issue dropping ridiculous amounts of money for the latest and greatest item that is just oh-so-much better than what came before, in that constant search for an "I win" button - and when the NEXT more powerful item comes along, to supersede what they just spent money and time on, repeat the process over and over again - just so they can be "top dog" in a video game. WG has done this for years - just take a look at some of the utterly ridiculous vehicles in WoT nowadays. That's why we're ending up with 55 knot DD's and 40 knot Iowa's. They keep coming up with ever-more shiny trinkets to keep players interested in  playing the game - and keep the money rolling in.

 

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34 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

It's not impossible to design a 55 knot DD

What is truly impossible is a displacement hull ship that can do both 55 knots and accelerate to that speed in under 1min, unless you change the propulsion method.

Attaching some rockets on the back could certainly allow it, but traditional propellers would very likely disintegrate, as they can't be designed to have great acceleration and top speed.

something about excessive vibration and cavitation.

well lets just put it this way, we all know acceleration numbers are complete arcade in this game otherwise a BB would never get underway

 

that being said getting as fast as these DDs will make them great for abusing other player's latency and that needs to be addressed

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french high tiers are actually hidrofoils.

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1 hour ago, Junostorm said:

The new French DD's need have the option for a Road Runner perma camo which comes with a voice over 'Meep' 'Meep' when engine boost is used!

Whether or not meant as a joke, this is actually a great suggestion (maybe not the "Meep, Meep" part, but definitely the camo).  

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Out of all the magic abilities used in this game horsepower and power to weight ratios are not my biggest concern

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Speed is supposed to be the FR DD flavor since they're not getting smoke.  Just no smoke alone for a DD is a significant setback.  Flamu has a WiP video for Tier X Kleber.  You can see him play it quite nicely showing what it can do despite not having smoke.  But no Defensive Fire, no real AA to speak of, no Repair Party, you see it get massacred by a Carrier.

Planes fly faster than 40, 50, 60 kts :Smile_trollface:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Speed is supposed to be the FR DD flavor since they're not getting smoke.  Just no smoke alone for a DD is a significant setback.  Flamu has a WiP video for Tier X Kleber.  You can see him play it quite nicely showing what it can do despite not having smoke.  But no Defensive Fire, no real AA to speak of, no Repair Party, you see it get massacred by a Carrier.:Smile_trollface:

WG: "We've made a new line, French Destroyers!  What do you think?"

Testers: "These would be really good, like overpowered, but..."

WG: "yesss?"

Testers: "They're gonna get murdered by carriers."

WG: "hmmm interesting."

Sub_Octavion: "just so you know everybody big changes to carriers coming!"

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