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MEANN

The T8 problem

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Here is the problem of selling T 8 to 10 boats to anyone. I know first off that it will not change. However something to consider.

If a 200 game player, He worked his way into T4 bb. Now he is in Randoms. I want the Bama' spends his money on a shiny new T8 BB. 

Ready Set Launch..... He has no idea how to navigate the T10 game play. Never seen 20k torps, Radar, Cv's that can wrekk you and you have no chance. yammy that can pen your bow and cit you. 

A gumo in smoke that can burn you down before you can turn around and run away. Oh btw as he turns his new bama' the yammy quad cits him for the rest of his health and all of that was in the first 4 minutes of the game. 

If you think that he felt good about his 47 dollar purchase you would be wrong. A player cant begin to be ready for T10 mm or should they be. 

Part of the grind of a boat line is the skill and meta changes that happen between tiers.  To me this is how we lose so many new people. It is also how the potato teams happen. How is it fair to the new player? He doesn't know how to angle, mitigate damage, go dark to repair and recover. $ to 5 games of being crushed will ruin the game for said player and make the team mates of said player hate him. 

An interesting idea. In order to buy a tier boat you have to at least have reached that tier in one of the tech trees.  

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1 minute ago, MEANN said:

Oh btw as he turns his new bama' the yammy quad cits him for the rest of his health and all of that was in the first 4 minutes of the game. 

If you think that he felt good about his 47 dollar purchase you would be wrong.

You would think so, but then you see these players with thousands and thousands of games played and just completely terrible stats.  There's a large portion of the playerbase that gets deleted very quickly almost every battle and yet it does not discourage them from playing.

Ultimately Wargaming will never make it harder for you to give them some of your money, even if it would be healthier to delay gratification of new ships for a bit until people better understand how to use them.

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My first ship in this game was Tirpitz.  I never played any ships before Tirpitz, yet I felt good playing it.  Things worked out, I played my first low tier ship after I had few hundred of battles in T10s.

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I see Midways that average less than 40k damage.. and they have 4-5k games.

 

Not much else to really say.

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Check out these stats.  This is for the Alabama, sorted by number of games played:

bama.thumb.png.564d3bec6686c78b1644193f0ed910a8.png

Of the top 20 players in terms of games played in the bama, 13 of them are terrible.  They're a huge burden to their team almost every time they sail in it.  But apparently they're having fun, because they keep playing it over and over again.  For some people, getting your butt kicked most of the time does not stop you from enjoying the game - or spending money on it.

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How did this “new guy” find the game?  If a friend told him about it, then hopefully the friend can warn him about progressing too quickly.  Did he see a video on YouTube? Then he can watch some more vids, where (some) CCs warn about playing too high before you’re ready. Tier progression isn’t unique to this game either.  It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that getting your butt kicked repeatedly is a hood sign that you’re in over your head, and need to go back to lower tiers until you’re ready.

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12 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

For some people, getting your butt kicked most of the time does not stop you from enjoying the game - or spending money on it.

You do realize that in two out of three games it really makes absolutely no difference if you are unicum or terrible player, right?

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47 minutes ago, MEANN said:

An interesting idea. In order to buy a tier boat you have to at least have reached that tier in one of the tech trees.  

Although a good idea in my opinion it will never happen. WG will never put a limit on people spending money on the game like this. They are a business and whether or not that player "stays" after spending that $47 bucks or leaves, they still have his $ 47 bucks.

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31 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

You do realize that in two out of three games it really makes absolutely no difference if you are unicum or terrible player, right?

Sometimes 3 out of 3 +... that's called a losing streak.

One wonders at the WR of Ship X if it were put through 100 games in a row, afk each battle. Any guesses?

Edited by Stauffenberg44

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4 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Sometimes 3 out of 3 +... that's called a losing streak.

One wonders at the WR of Ship X if it were put through 50 games in a row, afk each battle. Any guesses?

50 probably wouldn't be a big enough sample size to get a consistent result.

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1 minute ago, Frenotx said:

50 probably wouldn't be a big enough sample size to get a consistent result.

Changed.

Edited by Stauffenberg44

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9 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Sometimes 3 out of 3 +... that's called a losing streak.

One wonders at the WR of Ship X if it were put through 100 games in a row, afk each battle. Any guesses?

Somebody came at this once with some military theory and said 1 player out of 12 being AFK would tend to decrease his team's odds of winning by 15%.  So you'd expect a constantly afk player to have a 35% WR.  In practice I'm sure some ships being AFK hurts the team more than others.  Certainly you don't want your carrier afk.  

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1 minute ago, Brhinosaurus said:

In practice I'm sure some ships being AFK hurts the team more than others. 

Very true.

Let's say its a tier V Omaha then. 100 battles in a row afk.

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Just now, Stauffenberg44 said:

Very true.

Let's say its a tier V Omaha then. 100 battles in a row afk.

Best guess... 35% WR.

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18 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

One wonders at the WR of Ship X if it were put through 100 games in a row, afk each battle. Any guesses?

40%

Generally you will win 40% of games no matter what you do, and you will lose 30% of games no matter what you do.  It's that last 30% of games where what you do really matters.

Edited by Ramsalot

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1 hour ago, Battleship_Elisabeth said:

 

Earlier today.

Games like that shouldn't ever launch.

They really do need longer player wait times to load battles for closer tier structure . Only thing that will fix this kind of stuff .  Almost every time I load a T8 ship I get thrown into a T10 battle in 10-15 seconds it seems. 

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42 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

40%

Generally you will win 40% of games no matter what you do, and you will lose 30% of games no matter what you do.  It's that last 30% of games where what you do really matters.

The corollary of that is a player that is so bad that an afk ship over 100 battles will do better. Hilarious.

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1 hour ago, Battleship_Elisabeth said:

QCFJQFL.jpg

Earlier today.

Games like that shouldn't ever launch.

That is a side effect of the tweak that really does make more tier 8/9 matches but when a tier 8 is dragged up to 10 almost always the 8's are badly outnumbered.

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2 hours ago, MEANN said:

Here is the problem of selling T 8 to 10 boats to anyone. I know first off that it will not change. However something to consider.

If a 200 game player, He worked his way into T4 bb. Now he is in Randoms. I want the Bama' spends his money on a shiny new T8 BB. 

Ready Set Launch..... He has no idea how to navigate the T10 game play. Never seen 20k torps, Radar, Cv's that can wrekk you and you have no chance. yammy that can pen your bow and cit you. 

A gumo in smoke that can burn you down before you can turn around and run away. Oh btw as he turns his new bama' the yammy quad cits him for the rest of his health and all of that was in the first 4 minutes of the game. 

If you think that he felt good about his 47 dollar purchase you would be wrong. A player cant begin to be ready for T10 mm or should they be. 

Part of the grind of a boat line is the skill and meta changes that happen between tiers.  To me this is how we lose so many new people. It is also how the potato teams happen. How is it fair to the new player? He doesn't know how to angle, mitigate damage, go dark to repair and recover. $ to 5 games of being crushed will ruin the game for said player and make the team mates of said player hate him. 

An interesting idea. In order to buy a tier boat you have to at least have reached that tier in one of the tech trees.  

How would you inflate your stats without the potao to quad cit? Why do you think wg keeps tier 8 in tier 10 matches? Xp pinatas dont come easy.

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14 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

The corollary of that is a player that is so bad that an afk ship over 100 battles will do better. Hilarious.

Well, the true irony is that really bad player will actually do worse that an AFK ship in game.  Bad player will very often charge head first, overextend, and go broadside trying to run while under focus of enemy team.  As a result, ship goes down in under a minute, with minimal positive impact on the game.  An AFK ship will stay alive to draw enemy attention later on in the game, when it's teammates are trying to preserve those last important bits of HP.  It will stay alive longer under fire, baiting those salvos from maximum range, while spotting for it's team, buying time.

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They could fix a lot of the MM issues by limiting who can land in a +2 game. As in, if you have less than XXXX number of games at  a tier you will never see a +2 game.

 

That would solve a ton of problems for people progressing up to higher tiers for the first time.

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2 hours ago, MEANN said:

An interesting idea. In order to buy a tier boat you have to at least have reached that tier in one of the tech trees.  

you know....people have been saying this since 2016.......

but WG just wont do it because that would reduce their income too much......only a fraction of people survive long enough to unlock tech tree T8, that would just turn "buy on T7/T8 premium ship and quit game" into "blocked from buying on premium ship before quitting game"

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1 hour ago, Ramsalot said:

40%

Generally you will win 40% of games no matter what you do, and you will lose 30% of games no matter what you do.  It's that last 30% of games where what you do really matters.

Nope...

There was a weekend when  this happened

No. of Games     Win Rate

27                          37.04%

35                           31.43%

 

Within the top 5 consistently. Across T5-T10.  No matter what ship type I used, my side consistently derped to defeat. I stop playing for a week after that.

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7 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

Nope...

There was a weekend when  this happened

No. of Games     Win Rate

27                          37.04%

35                           31.43%

 

Within the top 5 consistently. Across T5-T10.  No matter what ship type I used, my side consistently derped to defeat. I stop playing for a week after that.

And this is why sample size determination is important in the field of statistics.

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