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Avrova1904

Tier-outmatched in random

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I decided to play again with the battleships that brought to me so good moments in the past: Tier VI-Tier VIII japanese battleships Fuso, Nagato, Amagi. But things have changed a lot. So now, the matchmaking decided that Nagato (Tier VII battleship) is strong enough to play against Tier IX, and I found this situation most of the times. I feel that playing with Tier VII and Tier VIII is frustrating most of the times because at Tier VII I have to face Tier IX cruisers, Tier IX battleships and Tier VIII carriers. I can't simply do almost nothing against these ships that exceed by far the capabilities of Nagato.

I know some of you will blame me but I invite you to try 1 vs 1 Nagato vs Mushasi, one of today's most typical Tier IX battleship you have to face. There is almost no way you can win a Mushasi having a Nagato unless Mushasi is almost destroyed. Mushasi has more guns, Mushasi has better armor, Mushasi has better guns, Mushasi has more HP. I was completely angled against a Mushasi, bowing, Mushasi made my Nagato 23000 HP damage, I couldn't stand more than a minute. Is not the only situation I had to face, another one against Tier IX cruisers Buffalo, Roon spamming HE I also can't stand much time.

Back in the time I started playing World of Warships in 2016 I was facing Colorado (Tier VII battleship) and similar battleships but I find that Nagato today is unplayable half of the times because of matchmaking. Currently, I realized is more enjoyable to play with Tier IX, Tier X, Tier IV and Tier III where the differences are not so abysmal. I think is time to dust off the old dreadnoughts. It's a shame that Nagato and other battleships that gave me so many memorable times will be forgotten in my port as museum ships... 

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When playing bottom tiered BB's I get into what I call "Battlecruiser Mode". Usually even when facing +2 cruisers, your BB guns can still destroy CA/CL's with well placed shots. When facing +2 BB's, it's HE time. At least have more of a chance doing damage starting a fire than AP shattering or bouncing doing very little to no damage.

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Tier 7 was always considered to be strong enough to fight tier 9's.

  • Cool 2

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1 hour ago, Avrova1904 said:

I decided to play again with the battleships that brought to me so good moments in the past: Tier VI-Tier VIII japanese battleships Fuso, Nagato, Amagi. But things have changed a lot. So now, the matchmaking decided that Nagato (Tier VII battleship) is strong enough to play against Tier IX, and I found this situation most of the times. I feel that playing with Tier VII and Tier VIII is frustrating most of the times because at Tier VII I have to face Tier IX cruisers, Tier IX battleships and Tier VIII carriers. I can't simply do almost nothing against these ships that exceed by far the capabilities of Nagato.

I know some of you will blame me but I invite you to try 1 vs 1 Nagato vs Mushasi, one of today's most typical Tier IX battleship you have to face. There is almost no way you can win a Mushasi having a Nagato unless Mushasi is almost destroyed. Mushasi has more guns, Mushasi has better armor, Mushasi has better guns, Mushasi has more HP. I was completely angled against a Mushasi, bowing, Mushasi made my Nagato 23000 HP damage, I couldn't stand more than a minute. Is not the only situation I had to face, another one against Tier IX cruisers Buffalo, Roon spamming HE I also can't stand much time.

Back in the time I started playing World of Warships in 2016 I was facing Colorado (Tier VII battleship) and similar battleships but I find that Nagato today is unplayable half of the times because of matchmaking. Currently, I realized is more enjoyable to play with Tier IX, Tier X, Tier IV and Tier III where the differences are not so abysmal. I think is time to dust off the old dreadnoughts. It's a shame that Nagato and other battleships that gave me so many memorable times will be forgotten in my port as museum ships... 

Try bismarck against T10 ships and you'll see the pain...

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In general when playing T7 Battleships in T9 matches I always start out as a support ship firing HE at everything in range. This gets fires started and forces the enemy to repair, which I point out in chat so hopefully the team will focus that ship with even more HE. The Lyon and Scharnhorst are particularly good at this. I'll switch to AP about halfway through the match as I flank enemy ships looking for easy broadside targets. Try not to be the first ship spotted or instead you'll be the first ship sunk. Also, pick a BB that can kite. Lyon kiting away still fires two turrets with four rifles in each so yeah, Tier 7 uptiered, for me, is still fun but more of a challenge. 

The Bismark, again for me, is more complicated due to carriers as the old girl can get deleted if she's not careful. While I usually like to push up close to caps in the beginning to get my secondaries in play and support the Destroyers, the meta has changed this to staying closer to AA ships while the carriers spot. I take my time pushing in when low tier and will only do so when escorted by AA ships. It's one of the reasons I don't really play Tier 8 much anymore. 

If you have the Alsace or the Jean Bart play these as they have good AA and excel in Tier 10 matches. 

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..advice,,advice ,,advice on how to play ships against opponents 2 tier above i`ts designed (balanced) tier.... How about limiting the 2 +/- craziness..? ..Last night all 5 of my games in Fiji,were either bottom tiered , once even  only tier 7 ship in team,or mid tiered (once).......Fiji does not do well against Seattles  ,Roons and Iowas......especially when green team decides to spend the whole game sniping-kiting .... Heck,my tier 5 Nicholas sees more Mahans and Minsks as opponents, than T22s or Acastas.....

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The struggle is real, also, Musashi has never had any business being at T9.

The power creep is also real.

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Oddly when I tire of grinding out the T9 doldrums I'll go play T5.  Why? Because in COOP it's a blast.  The AI in coop at T5 are about as accurate as most players so it makes for some bloody matches where BBs feel like the beasts they are.

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8 hours ago, VonSmallHausenn said:

..advice,,advice ,,advice on how to play ships against opponents 2 tier above i`ts designed (balanced) tier.... How about limiting the 2 +/- craziness..? ..Last night all 5 of my games in Fiji,were either bottom tiered , once even  only tier 7 ship in team,or mid tiered (once).......Fiji does not do well against Seattles  ,Roons and Iowas......especially when green team decides to spend the whole game sniping-kiting .... Heck,my tier 5 Nicholas sees more Mahans and Minsks as opponents, than T22s or Acastas.....

I'd argue that Neptune and even Minotaur don't compare favorably in that situation, either. Say, the seattle goes bow-on. ...In a straight, 1v1 fight, you basically lose, as you have no HE, and while RN CL AP is potent, it can only do so much against an oponent that has a clue. That line isn't good at taking fair fights, honestly, and should be played accordingly. And, likewise, the entire line folds like a house of cards against BBs. This is what smoke is for, to allow you to engage these targets. A well played RN CL is probably one of the better bottom tier cruisers, so long as you avoid radar. Treat them like a DD that hulked out and grew a citadel.

As for T5 DDs, they aren't so bad off, as they can still do their job just fine. What are bad off are T6 and T7 DDs, as they have to face T8 and 9 DDs, who get access to the slot that lets one lower their detection.

In the end, why should the game change for you? You should change for the game, as that's how one gets better.

Personally, my favorite matches are ones where I'm bottom tier. Wanna know why? Because most people are terrible at being bottom tier, meaning that I don't have to be better than an Iowa in my Nelson, only better than a Colorodo. You aren't matched against a T9 in a T7, but another T7 (or rarely a T6 from a fail division) in a T9 game, meaning you only have to perform better than that T7.

Honestly, I have more trouble being top tier. No idea how or why, I just can't seem to do as well there nearly as often. T8 CV in a T10 game? Top of the board fairly consistently! T8 BB? Way up there, as I don't go down easy, as I know how to avoid dying fairly well. But the moment I hop in my Midway or Minotaur, I get loss after loss after loss. No idea why, as I do so much better as a bottom in my Edinburgh and Lexington, but that's just how it works out. 

Now that I think about it, if I could check a box to only be bottom tier, I'd be super happy, honestly.

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28 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

I'd argue that Neptune and even Minotaur don't compare favorably in that situation, either. Say, the seattle goes bow-on. ...In a straight, 1v1 fight, you basically lose, as you have no HE, and while RN CL AP is potent, it can only do so much against an oponent that has a clue. That line isn't good at taking fair fights, honestly, and should be played accordingly. And, likewise, the entire line folds like a house of cards against BBs. This is what smoke is for, to allow you to engage these targets. A well played RN CL is probably one of the better bottom tier cruisers, so long as you avoid radar. Treat them like a DD that hulked out and grew a citadel.

As for T5 DDs, they aren't so bad off, as they can still do their job just fine. What are bad off are T6 and T7 DDs, as they have to face T8 and 9 DDs, who get access to the slot that lets one lower their detection.

In the end, why should the game change for you? You should change for the game, as that's how one gets better.

Personally, my favorite matches are ones where I'm bottom tier. Wanna know why? Because most people are terrible at being bottom tier, meaning that I don't have to be better than an Iowa in my Nelson, only better than a Colorodo. You aren't matched against a T9 in a T7, but another T7 (or rarely a T6 from a fail division) in a T9 game, meaning you only have to perform better than that T7.

Honestly, I have more trouble being top tier. No idea how or why, I just can't seem to do as well there nearly as often. T8 CV in a T10 game? Top of the board fairly consistently! T8 BB? Way up there, as I don't go down easy, as I know how to avoid dying fairly well. But the moment I hop in my Midway or Minotaur, I get loss after loss after loss. No idea why, as I do so much better as a bottom in my Edinburgh and Lexington, but that's just how it works out. 

Now that I think about it, if I could check a box to only be bottom tier, I'd be super happy, honestly.

??that`s right, you said it. Not the Neptune, not the Mino... So than wth is a Fiji doing there ??  And it`s not the fact of the uptiering,,it`s the how often....FYI , i do mostly good when uptiered,, still, that is not how it supposed to be.Period

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10 minutes ago, VonSmallHausenn said:

??that`s right, you said it. Not the Neptune, not the Mino... So than wth is a Fiji doing there ??  And it`s not the fact of the uptiering,,it`s the how often....FYI , i do mostly good when uptiered,, still, that is not how it supposed to be.Period

Supposed to be? Wg set the parameters of matches, players pick ships. If you're being uptiered constantly its because players choices. Possibly your own. 

 If there are 10-1 T8-10 BBs in the que and 1-10 cruisers and you picked a Bismarck... say Hello to DM, Wooster, and Zao.

 I'd love. Being top tier in Tirpitz even 1/3rd of the time. Ain't gonna happen, no use letting it bother me. 

 Speaking of Tirpitz, I heard a new BB line got released. Maybe I take her out for some Or-Ida BB.

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3 minutes ago, VonSmallHausenn said:

??that`s right, you said it. Not the Neptune, not the Mino... So than wth is a Fiji doing there ??  And it`s not the fact of the uptiering,,it`s the how often....FYI , i do mostly good when uptiered,, still, that is not how it supposed to be.Period

Save that it literally is how it's supposed to be, as there is, in fact, a +/-2 spread. What would be how it isn't supposed to be is a +/-3 spread, a +/-1 spread, or no spread at all, with T1s meeting T10s.

Heck, it could also be argued that there's just not enough of a playerbase to get matches put together at all hours under a +/-1 spread. Already it struggles to get lower tier matches going at 6 am, let alone 2 am's long queue times in general. And don't even get me started on T1 matches, which take a lengthy time to get together at most hours, and have for as long as I remember.

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4 minutes ago, Ares1967 said:

Supposed to be? Wg set the parameters of matches, players pick ships. If you're being uptiered constantly its because players choices. Possibly your own. 

 If there are 10-1 T8-10 BBs in the que and 1-10 cruisers and you picked a Bismarck... say Hello to DM, Wooster, and Zao.

 I'd love. Being top tier in Tirpitz even 1/3rd of the time. Ain't gonna happen, no use letting it bother me. 

 Speaking of Tirpitz, I heard a new BB line got released. Maybe I take her out for some Or-Ida BB.

yes,dude, i chose to be uptiered most of the time......There is absolutely no reason to suck a single tier 7 or 8 ship into a tier 9 or 10 game, other than provide  an easier meal to paying, high tier costumers....

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4 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

Save that it literally is how it's supposed to be, as there is, in fact, a +/-2 spread. What would be how it isn't supposed to be is a +/-3 spread, a +/-1 spread, or no spread at all, with T1s meeting T10s.

Heck, it could also be argued that there's just not enough of a playerbase to get matches put together at all hours under a +/-1 spread. Already it struggles to get lower tier matches going at 6 am, let alone 2 am's long queue times in general. And don't even get me started on T1 matches, which take a lengthy time to get together at most hours, and have for as long as I remember.

6am? 2am?  ....You play off hours, you wait. Nothing to do with +/-1 or 2 or 3 tiering... And the best example how bad this tiering system is, the CV vs AA at the current rework....How could they balance AA damage and the plane damage  across 5 tiers?? 

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17 hours ago, Avrova1904 said:

I decided to play again with the battleships that brought to me so good moments in the past: Tier VI-Tier VIII japanese battleships Fuso, Nagato, Amagi. But things have changed a lot. So now, the matchmaking decided that Nagato (Tier VII battleship) is strong enough to play against Tier IX, and I found this situation most of the times. I feel that playing with Tier VII and Tier VIII is frustrating most of the times because at Tier VII I have to face Tier IX cruisers, Tier IX battleships and Tier VIII carriers. I can't simply do almost nothing against these ships that exceed by far the capabilities of Nagato.

I know some of you will blame me but I invite you to try 1 vs 1 Nagato vs Mushasi, one of today's most typical Tier IX battleship you have to face. There is almost no way you can win a Mushasi having a Nagato unless Mushasi is almost destroyed. Mushasi has more guns, Mushasi has better armor, Mushasi has better guns, Mushasi has more HP. I was completely angled against a Mushasi, bowing, Mushasi made my Nagato 23000 HP damage, I couldn't stand more than a minute. Is not the only situation I had to face, another one against Tier IX cruisers Buffalo, Roon spamming HE I also can't stand much time.

Back in the time I started playing World of Warships in 2016 I was facing Colorado (Tier VII battleship) and similar battleships but I find that Nagato today is unplayable half of the times because of matchmaking. Currently, I realized is more enjoyable to play with Tier IX, Tier X, Tier IV and Tier III where the differences are not so abysmal. I think is time to dust off the old dreadnoughts. It's a shame that Nagato and other battleships that gave me so many memorable times will be forgotten in my port as museum ships... 

Ok dude just some advice for you. The 460 mm guns on the mushasi over match you. So no matter how you angle he will always pen you. Second why are you going against a tier 9 in a tier 7.  You should just move away from the tier 9 and move to a new flank. I do not understand your logic. You have a w key and a and d key. Before you commit to a flank look at the mini map and figure out where every one else is going. Also nagato has good guns so you can sit further back when you are bottom tier. All you need to do is think just a little and you will be fine. After you see the enemy deployment try to figure out the best place to go. Just always look at the mini map. It is your friend. 

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17 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

Tier 7 was always considered to be strong enough to fight tier 9's.

Depends.

Cruisers and Battleships, yes.  Myoko can cook a Missouri just fine.  KGV doesn't care about your Tier IX BB armor.

The problem IMO are Tier VII DDs dealing with more powerful Tier VIII-IX DDs who can be very stealthy.  There's a big jump in capability from Tier VII -> VIII Destroyers.

Akizuki, Benson, Fletcher, Jutland, Lightning, Kitakaze, etc. vs 6.4km or 6.8km detection DDs?  :Smile_trollface:

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20 hours ago, VonSmallHausenn said:

6am? 2am?  ....You play off hours, you wait. Nothing to do with +/-1 or 2 or 3 tiering... And the best example how bad this tiering system is, the CV vs AA at the current rework....How could they balance AA damage and the plane damage  across 5 tiers?? 

Save that +/-1 mm would cause longer queue times by default, so it has everything to do with it.

As for AA, fairly easily, if they wanted AA and plane survivability to be largely static. Don't up plane numbers, don't up plane health, but do up plane speed. This would allow the CVs to have an effective increase to survivability by speed alone, rather than having too many variables to easily balance. Likewise, balance AA similarly. Perhaps have the damage be fairly static, but the range increase instead, so as to counterbalance the speed increase, as well as allow us to protect our allies better, thus making the lower tier ships having a smaller bubble less problematic, as top tiers could reach them better with their own bubble.

This would also allow one to balance different lines on different amounts of AA, while still keeping things consistent across tiers. That said, certain lines would likely have more drastic increases, such as US BBs upon hitting T8, as that's when the AA really gets nice and meaty.

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