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Shoggoth_pinup

Short But Sweet: a Guide to Doing Well in Co-op

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Random Battle and Co-op are two very different beasts. What you learn in Co-op my not be of use in Random, and what you learn in Random will likely not be very useful in Co-op. Co-op requires good speed, good aim and careful but extreme aggression to top the score boards consistently. This guide is from the point of view of BBs primarily, but I can do this consistently in a DD as well outside of the rare detonation. Cruisers, however, are tricky.


Are you a BB? Your dream machine will be fast, accurate and have big guns. Example: Dunkerque, Hood, Missouri. I favor Mo, as she's extremely fast and lucrative, though Iowa would be "better" technically, as radar is next to useless in Co-op, where as spotter plane can be very useful if used at the right time. Your most important stats will be speed, followed by accuracy. You can make up for poor accuracy with speed by closing the distance, or poor speed with good accuracy, but it's harder to do the latter. You can also make up for smaller guns by catching the side of a ship rather than the bow, as they won't penetrate the frontal armor like larger guns might. If you have torpedoes, save them for up close.

What consumables are worth upgrading? Other than your heal and maybe damage control party, you can generally ignore premium consumables. At lower tiers, I suggest ignoring even those.


Are you a DD? Your dream machine will be fast and have guns that are effective at longer ranges. Example: Leningrad, Aigle, IJN Gunboats, etc. Torps are only important in that you aren't handicapped like Kidd is, having too few to really one-shot a BB. You will want to use them closer to your target and watch for allies, as friendly fire is a thing.

What consumables are worth upgrading? Your important consumables are less necessary to grab, as they largely hinder you. Dam con, smoke, hydro and torp booster are the most likely ones you'll want to take, though heal can be nice too on the DDs that have it. However, smoke is usually not a good way for maximizing your rewards, so if you can avoid it don't rely on it overly so. That isn't saying not to use it, but a torpedo strike from 2-3km off can be far more effective than peppering with shells that often won't penetrate.


Are you a CL? Your dream machine has fast firing guns, and lots of them. Example: Atlanta, Flint, Worcester, etc. Speed can help make those guns sing, as they can devastate cruisers of all walks of life at the right ranges using AP against a broadside target You will have smaller guns, though still be quite effective against a BB if you have IFHE.

What consumables are worth upgrading? Similar to a BB, you will want any heal you might have to be upgraded, doubly so if you are in a T8+ RN CL, Boise or Bizarro Boise. Other consumables are to taste. Warning: Dam con when you catch fire, if you are broadside, or, if possible, angle so as to bounce the AP. The AI cruisers tend to swap to AP when they get a fire on you. If you aren't broadside, that means they will (usually) have trouble hurting you.


Are you a CA? Your dream machine has good accuracy, good speed, and preferably faster firing guns, though larger guns can make up for much. Example: Salem, Des Moines, Hindenburg, Alaska, etc. You'll want to use AP more than a CL, as these guns can really punish other cruisers at most ranges, and can often penetrate a BB's upper side armor for a nice chunk of damage, if not outright pen their citadel at extreme close ranges.

What consumables are worth upgrading? Again, similar to a BB, you will want to be as healthy as possible. Dam con and heal, with others to taste. Warning: Use dam con when you catch fire, if you are broadside, or, if possible, angle so as to bounce the AP. The AI cruisers tend to swap to AP when they get a fire on you. If you aren't broadside, that means they will (usually) have trouble hurting you.


Are you a CV? Honestly? I'd not suggest using a CV in co-op if you want to get good rewards. Not only is a CV not so great at attacking quick enough for co-op, choosing one gives the enemy a leg up, as they get a BB. Even for learning to play a CV at all, co-op is usually not the best. However, that said, I would recommend against RN CVs more than others due to their planes having downright anemic speeds.

What consumables are worth upgrading? You have none, so don't worry.


How does one profit in tier 1-5? Don't use consumables or BBs for the most part. The rewards are too low to justify their use outside of a time when consumables are on sale, and BBs are too slow and inaccurate to do anything by the time the DDs start cleaning house.

How does one profit in tier 6-10? Only use the consumables you find of vital importance, as you will need to make 22,500 credits more for every consumable you take. This is why heals and dam con are all I often use, as they have the biggest impact on my performance. You can make up for this by playing co-op while consumable sales are going, allowing one to take even more.

I still can't make a profit. Any advice? Premium ships make more money than non-premium. Fast ships are the kings of co-op. What's a fast ship, you ask? Depends on taste, but I call 30 knots or higher fast enough for co-op. 25 knots or under, I won't dare take them.


I'm aware that this guide isn't all encompassing, so if you have any advice, say it below!

Edited by Shoggoth_pinup
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Shorter answer . Run a DD in Co-op and kill everything before your team mates get a chance .

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Shorter shorter answer. Bum rush and leave in under 4 minutes = 98%+ win

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1 hour ago, Kebobstuzov said:

Shorter shorter answer. Bum rush and leave in under 4 minutes = 98%+ win

ie:  Die and leave your fate up to the rest of the "team".

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BB:

I run what I feel like. Normandie and Massachusetts are common choices. Also Colorado. Lower tiers? Mikasa, Wyoming, New York/Texas.

DD: More of the same. Gallant, Akizuki, a few others. Played Mutsuki recently.

CL: Marblehead, Murmansk, Konigsburg, Dallas, Atlanta, Perth.

CA: Actually don’t use them much. Buffalo is perhaps my most recent common choice.

CV: Whatever I feel like. Ranger is a popular choice because no more RTS or Bogue. Don’t much care about super profits with a carrier, winning matters more. My abilities are slowly catching up to how they were pre-rework, and to me the ‘extra’ battleship is just more damage and xp on the table.

Radar: anything that will see over things is fine by me. As far as a spotter being better than Radar? Radar can’t be shot down.

For Atlanta especially, Radar is a tool for ambushing bots.

Profits: Can’t remember the last time I lost credits in Co-op. Also don’t always pay attention to what consumables I have equiped, though agree premium consumables isn’t the best use of credits in Co-op.

Damage: Damage comes to those who take it; three battleships ran to A on Trap recently, broadside to most of my team, yet our carrier did more as they were on the way than anyone else. Played ring-around-the-rosie in my Atlanta, killed all three, and capped A twice. 100k game.

Speed: Awareness, calmness, and positioning matter.

Colorado on EpiTrident just this afternoon; 145k damage, 110+ secondary hits brawling a Gniesenau and other ships. Four kills. The other four bots died to a Scharnhorst, a ship supposedly ‘better’ than Colorado in most respects, yet they placed second to my first, (and still got a +1 karma; they did dang good work.)

...but then; I have nearly 10k Co-op games.

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First of all, it's Co-Op..  It's not competitive (except with each other)

On those odd chances I have an all-bot team, and they derp..  I get wonderful damage and XP that rivals random.

Co-op to Random is quite a shock after a while...  The only torp hits will be a suicide charge, or someone you weren't aiming at.

Trick:  Deselect the ship using 'X' right before firing torps.  They cheat, and will immediately change course if you don't.

They will chase DDs to the end of the map, so set up your cross-fire accordingly.  CVs come after DDs in priority, and again, they will senselessly chase them down.

The bots know you are out there, but they won't point the guns until you are spotted.  This is another anti-intuitive to random thing.  They are never ready for surprises.

...

HINT:  If in domination, let them cap.  This way, they will get some points up and running so the game won't end in 4 minutes with 3 bot BBs still alive.

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6 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Colorado on EpiTrident just this afternoon; 145k damage, 110+ secondary hits brawling a Gniesenau and other ships. Four kills. The other four bots died to a Scharnhorst, a ship supposedly ‘better’ than Colorado in most respects, yet they placed second to my first, (and still got a +1 karma; they did dang good work.)

...but then; I have nearly 10k Co-op games.

I'm not saying that they can't do well, it's just that I look to the worst games, not the best, and how consistently the former are seen. The main issue with the standards, at least to me, is that sometimes the AI does weird things, and you're left wondering where they all went. If one spawns in the B area, that's not an issue, but the time it takes to reach B from an A or C spawn often means that everything is dead before one gets into brawling range to send the BBs to Davey Jones' locker. Combine this with how the bots often charge straight at you, and you've got frustration awaiting you due to mid-tier BB dispersion. Sure, I might get some shells on target 1/3rd of the time at that range, but that's still 2/3rds of the time they straddle that bow-on cruiser.

Although, the larger reason is because Two Brothers is a thing. If there ever were a map I hate taking a slow ship into, it's easily that one, as sometimes you end up with nothing on your flank. It's like every direction you go on that map, whether up mid, to the west or to the east, it feels like you pick the wrong choice half the time. And, unlike other maps, you're kinda stuck after you pick. If that map weren't there, slower ships might be workable for me in co-op, but I dislike having to hope for the best, and unless I can manage the top of the scoreboards most games, that's not very consistent.

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24 minutes ago, Shoggoth_pinup said:

I'm not saying that they can't do well, it's just that I look to the worst games, not the best, and how consistently the former are seen. The main issue with the standards, at least to me, is that sometimes the AI does weird things, and you're left wondering where they all went. If one spawns in the B area, that's not an issue, but the time it takes to reach B from an A or C spawn often means that everything is dead before one gets into brawling range to send the BBs to Davey Jones' locker. Combine this with how the bots often charge straight at you, and you've got frustration awaiting you due to mid-tier BB dispersion. Sure, I might get some shells on target 1/3rd of the time at that range, but that's still 2/3rds of the time they straddle that bow-on cruiser.

Although, the larger reason is because Two Brothers is a thing. If there ever were a map I hate taking a slow ship into, it's easily that one, as sometimes you end up with nothing on your flank. It's like every direction you go on that map, whether up mid, to the west or to the east, it feels like you pick the wrong choice half the time. And, unlike other maps, you're kinda stuck after you pick. If that map weren't there, slower ships might be workable for me in co-op, but I dislike having to hope for the best, and unless I can manage the top of the scoreboards most games, that's not very consistent.

Wouldn’t say I disagree.

But as I said; baring some major programming rework I think I have the measure of the bots. (Part of the reason I hate the carrier rework so much. Running an RTS carrier in Co-op was pretty much a 99.9% assured win.)

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On 5/2/2019 at 6:57 PM, Shoggoth_pinup said:

It's like every direction you go on that map, whether up mid, to the west or to the east, it feels like you pick the wrong choice half the time.

Sod's Law: All life is six to five against.

I will always take a ship into co-op on the first trip, to get used to the guns, steering, etc.

I will take my carriers into co-op because by now, people understand that the CV can't alpha-strike and has to be carried/protected a bit. Generally speaking, if I take a CV into co-op it's to grab spotting ribbons for a directive of which I'm already aware so I can get that done and be out of the way of other ships which need it, or to warm up with some practice bomb drops before getting my Randoms game on. But if you are the only human on a team of bots, in a CV, then unless your bots have a good night and you're spot-on with all your drops, you are utterly screwed.

I never take premium consumables into co-op.

I am loath to move my Kongo captain up because she's such a fast ship and can get places and do things before the DD's steal all the food.

Overall, a great post.

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On 5/2/2019 at 2:26 PM, AVR_Project said:

CVs come after DDs in priority, and again, they will senselessly chase them down.

Maybe the bot detest CVs as much as most of the (human) playerbase.

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