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MEANN

Why so angry non cv drivers?

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There is a reason. It is that wg failed to fix the actual problem of balance. The cv lotto is still going to decide who wins. Except now t10 is the only place that is not double cvs. They however can kill any boat. So as a surface ship player you can either have double cvs that are going to troll who ever they like and you pray to RNGesus that it isnt you. Or you play T10 where the cv can and most likely will be able to kill you. The anger is because there is not any reprieve from cvs. Every game it feels like or at least 70% of the games have cvs in them. I know that i am more shocked when I dont see a cv then when there is one. The low level play is just crushed with double cvs. If you are low tier your toast. The vast group on the forums are just tired of being punished. So they are to the point of just complaining without end. Until aa is able to make cv's pause and go attack something else, the lack balance will continue to cause the loss of players. Every day I see more and more im out posts. That concerns me.

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Really believe they should pull T4 CVs from the game

 They are trash to play and the ships that are fighting against them don't really have protection from them anyways

 And it would give lower tier players a chance to enjoy the game before being thrown into the meat grinder and it would allow players that don't like CVs a place to play some World War I surface combat like it should be played

 

 

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1 hour ago, MEANN said:

There is a reason. It is that wg failed to fix the actual problem of balance. The cv lotto is still going to decide who wins. Except now t10 is the only place that is not double cvs. They however can kill any boat. So as a surface ship player you can either have double cvs that are going to troll who ever they like and you pray to RNGesus that it isnt you. Or you play T10 where the cv can and most likely will be able to kill you. The anger is because there is not any reprieve from cvs. Every game it feels like or at least 70% of the games have cvs in them. I know that i am more shocked when I dont see a cv then when there is one. The low level play is just crushed with double cvs. If you are low tier your toast. The vast group on the forums are just tired of being punished. So they are to the point of just complaining without end. Until aa is able to make cv's pause and go attack something else, the lack balance will continue to cause the loss of players. Every day I see more and more im out posts. That concerns me.

I believe a large portion of the frustration (besides team composition or CV skill) is the lack of control a player has against CV attacks. Sure you can set a sector, but this is situational and varies in effectiveness based on ship or CV's skill. Otherwise everything is left to RNG and you just have to pray to get lucky. ESPECIALLY if two CVs are focusing you there is no real defense and you can only hope to shoot down some planes AFTER they make the drop on you. (Obviously having close support helps).

But you're unable to focus a single squadron and unable to participate in defense of your own ship besides maneuvering and dodging as best you can. I think bringing back Manual AA control will help players get a sense of ability to focus the immediate threat in multiple CV games. (I am happy it takes a CV a couple passes to finish you off instead of one-shotting like they were able to pre-rework). 

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CVs cause angst because the game becomes an exercise about avoiding planes instead of a game where you pilot ships and shoot guns.  

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1 hour ago, MEANN said:

There is a reason. It is that wg failed to fix the actual problem of balance. The cv lotto is still going to decide who wins. Except now t10 is the only place that is not double cvs. They however can kill any boat. So as a surface ship player you can either have double cvs that are going to troll who ever they like and you pray to RNGesus that it isnt you. Or you play T10 where the cv can and most likely will be able to kill you. The anger is because there is not any reprieve from cvs. Every game it feels like or at least 70% of the games have cvs in them. I know that i am more shocked when I dont see a cv then when there is one. The low level play is just crushed with double cvs. If you are low tier your toast. The vast group on the forums are just tired of being punished. So they are to the point of just complaining without end. Until aa is able to make cv's pause and go attack something else, the lack balance will continue to cause the loss of players. Every day I see more and more im out posts. That concerns me.

Its not just the NA forums that complaining about it.   Its also a constant topic on Reddit and the EU forums both English and German ( the two languages I speak).   I also heard its an issue on the Asia forums.   

I browse mostly reddit and have to highlight how bad the new player experience is with T4 CVs where a large number of ships have 0 counters to CVs  with many 3 CV vs 3 CV matches.  It doesn't matter if a CV can only do minimal damage to you when you have nothing at all to defend yourself with. Being a damage piniata to a swarm of mosquitoes isn't fun and new players will simply move on to other games where they have a better time. 

 

The last thing I want to point out that the narrative saying DD main whiners are flooding the forums / reddit  is simply not true.  Its not just DD mains that came and flooded the sites after the CV rework.  There are a lot of regulars that have been participating in the forums and especially reddit for years that are complaining and highlighting the issues with CVs.  There are also plenty of unicums who have gone to play CVs very well who say the same bad things about CVs. 

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Last night in my Implacable in a t8 match I noticed with early scouting that there was an unsupported red North Carolina.  I hit him with bombers, set two fires, waited for the dcp cooldown, then hit him again to set more fires.  He tried to run to his allies, but just based on his spawn on the flank there was nothing he could have done.  That's the kind of thing that needs to be addressed.  I understand that a BB is going to be punished for going off on his own, but that's a lot different from spawning off on your own and trying to run to support (that also happened to be running away from him that match). 

Maybe some of this will be addressed by the squadron launch delay, but that's just treating a symptom of the issues and not the root of the problem, which is that single ships have no remedy against CVs unless they have amazing AA and force the CV to avoid them entirely. 

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45 minutes ago, Ivan_Namirettov said:

I believe a large portion of the frustration (besides team composition or CV skill) is the lack of control a player has against CV attacks. Sure you can set a sector, but this is situational and varies in effectiveness based on ship or CV's skill. Otherwise everything is left to RNG and you just have to pray to get lucky. ESPECIALLY if two CVs are focusing you there is no real defense and you can only hope to shoot down some planes AFTER they make the drop on you. (Obviously having close support helps).

But you're unable to focus a single squadron and unable to participate in defense of your own ship besides maneuvering and dodging as best you can. I think bringing back Manual AA control will help players get a sense of ability to focus the immediate threat in multiple CV games. (I am happy it takes a CV a couple passes to finish you off instead of one-shotting like they were able to pre-rework). 

Players have control against cv attacks. Fighter planes, DFAA, sailing with others, and captain skills and components. As a cv you get 1 attack against most ships per attack run. Now if the ship is isolated, Has lost most of it's aa, or is really unlucky to catch a torp that causes a detonation the damage outputs are pretty low. If you look at say a North Carolina getting 3x citadels thats near 40k damage. In order for a Lexington to pull that off He has to fly across the map, find the best attack angle, pray his 35kt- 40kt torps were led enough and the bb is just being dumb, Hit with all three while not losing any of the remaining 6. Then pop a heal consumable while escaping the back side to set up for another run. so far 1 run about 13k damage more if flooding. Next attack run praying to RNGESUS that aa doesn't bone him and get 3 more and pray the other 3 can get back around to do it again. The reality is making more than 1 attack run is risky and on average against an NC I'm pulling 5 torps per run. So what took me about 1.5 minutes to earn 20k. A bb could have gotten 3 shots that could equal or exceed that.

Against aa spec ships a cv has to play completely different. For this example, we will use the HVAR 127mm because well they are consistent for the Lexington compared to the TT.  When Im in my Lexington and I get tired to 10. I attack aa ships with rockets. For 2 reason. 1 I play aa usn cruisers, 2 I know the time it takes for a plane travelling at 234kts to move 7km, 6km, 5.8km, and 5.6km.. FYI its 11 seconds for 7km, 9.9 for 6km. and 9.6 and 9.3 for the other 2. That is if I bost all the way in. Normally though I dodge a bit of the out LR aura then drop and boost. Tends to cut the times down to about 6 seconds or so. Because of this, I am able to get 1 quick strike with rockets for like 5-7k on the aa boats, but more importantly, I knock out aa mounts so any further attack will have less resistance. The flipside to this, however, is that strike pretty much just nuked all the wonderful superstructure damage my rockets depend on so my next strike with rockets will be less but my DB and TB won't have that problem.

Playing a cv is about ensuring your team wins more than anything else. BB tanking bow in spike some db on them to help then send in torps to force them to turn and show juicy citadels for your team to exploit. This actually works pretty good. I made an 80k health Yammy turn to avoid my torps only to eat 3 citadels from a Republique. I even gave a heads up the Republique of my intentions. The fact is if he would have taken the 6k from the torps he would have been in a much better place then turning to avoid it and eating like 45k from the Republique. He then complained for the rest of the match about how broken CV's were. 

The biggest problem the community has is not with they can't defend against aa, THEY CAN, but the fact that cv's were the 1 in 25 games novelty that you just had to deal with. Now its like 23 out of 25 games. There is a saturation effect and people have to learn new tactics to excel. I hated the rework. Complained, posted suggestions, got into heated debates, it was exhausting and nothing changed. Realizing the futility of my actions I did the only logical thing I could. Learn to play them and see what kicked my [edited]. Guess what its more than just AA cruisers. There is a slew of cruisers, bbs, and even dds I can not get more than 1 attack on due to aa. The rest tend to be very well insulated by friends and I get relegated to anti-cap duties for half the game. 

Playing wows above 50% has always been about survival, terrain usage, and knowing when to fire and how to aim. Cv's didnt really change this much. In fact it legitimized the concept of lemmings which for the longest time was something everyone rallied against. Fact is you don't need an entire 12 man fleet blob to stop most cv attacks a simple 3 man squad or div can do that pretty effectively if its 2x bb 1x cruiser, 2x cruiser 1x bb. The only thing that has changed is the spotting of dds and the follow-up attacks by the enemy team. This is something even I think needs to be changed. spotting report distance over say 15km should be mini map only.

 

Side note this game never really had manual aa controls. It had ctrl-click for focus this squad, but in a world, with single squads per cv, that system doesn't work and really the sector focus is better than that ever was.

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7 minutes ago, Ceesa said:

Last night in my Implacable in a t8 match I noticed with early scouting that there was an unsupported red North Carolina.  I hit him with bombers, set two fires, waited for the dcp cooldown, then hit him again to set more fires.  He tried to run to his allies, but just based on his spawn on the flank there was nothing he could have done.  That's the kind of thing that needs to be addressed.  I understand that a BB is going to be punished for going off on his own, but that's a lot different from spawning off on your own and trying to run to support (that also happened to be running away from him that match). 

Maybe some of this will be addressed by the squadron launch delay, but that's just treating a symptom of the issues and not the root of the problem, which is that single ships have no remedy against CVs unless they have amazing AA and force the CV to avoid them entirely. 

there will be a 30-second launch delay for t8 and 45 for t10 coming soon but still even with that its like 60 seconds. If they are a slow load player they are still screwed. then again slow load tends to also be the player's fault as well.

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Hey

Let's also remember 0.8.0 was supposed to be just a CV rework BUT they also NERF'd the Concealment on every BB, Cruiser and Carrier in the game which was unexpected.  They Also Nerf'd the AFT skill for it's 20% AA range benefit and then changed Manual AA from being select a squadron to shoot at, to being a sector change, so some ships which had notoriously good AA became very bland (Atlanta).  All of this was done without telling anyone what was changing and let's face it, the initial roll out was ridiculous on the power they had and nobody had a real idea on which captain skills to take, confusion of the AA gun upgrade module, defensive fire AA does very little real damage on ships that really needed it.  Now carriers kind of suck and would actually be better under the old system, not to mention gone are the unique drop patterns that some of them had, like Kaga.

 

Pete

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Finding a fully spec'd AA spec'd ship/commander pre CV rework was a rarity, as the CV population was very low.  Now with the post CV rework the population has experienced an explosion, are you still of the same mentality where one disregarded a full spec'd AA build?

The commander skills one took in the past which enhanced AA, where to enhance something else not necessarily for AA.

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6 minutes ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

Let's also remember 0.8.0 was supposed to be just a CV rework BUT they also NERF'd the Concealment on every BB, Cruiser and Carrier in the game which was unexpected.  They Also Nerf'd the AFT skill for it's 20% AA range benefit and then changed Manual AA from being select a squadron to shoot at, to being a sector change, so some ships which had notoriously good AA became very bland (Atlanta).  All of this was done without telling anyone what was changing and let's face it, the initial roll out was ridiculous on the power they had and nobody had a real idea on which captain skills to take, confusion of the AA gun upgrade module, defensive fire AA does very little real damage on ships that really needed it.  Now carriers kind of suck and would actually be better under the old system, not to mention gone are the unique drop patterns that some of them had, like Kaga.

 

Pete

The CE nerf was not unexpected it was posted in the dev blog like 2 months before it hit. As for telling us. They had like 3 months of PTS where you could test most of this, mind you the aa was not really proper at that point so you have point there. As for Atlanta. Dude even in my Lexington which is 1 tier up, I avoid that thing like a plague. at 5.9km aa range and unlimited DFAA I know attacking anywhere near it is suicidal.  If it is set up correctly can force all my attacks on any target nearby to be 1 and done. The only way to deal with the ATL as a cv is to avoid it. Much in the same way you avoid Worcester and mino. Here is a general tip I use in my salem, worcester, DM, Alaska. Over 5km dont use dfaa. 5km or less use it. Also you should have your aa range showing on your mini map so you can keep your focus on combat and not in aa defence.

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53 minutes ago, The_Chiv said:

Players have control against cv attacks. Fighter planes, DFAA, sailing with others, and captain skills and components. As a cv you get 1 attack against most ships per attack run. Now if the ship is isolated, Has lost most of it's aa, or is really unlucky to catch a torp that causes a detonation the damage outputs are pretty low. If you look at say a North Carolina getting 3x citadels thats near 40k damage. In order for a Lexington to pull that off He has to fly across the map, find the best attack angle, pray his 35kt- 40kt torps were led enough and the bb is just being dumb, Hit with all three while not losing any of the remaining 6. Then pop a heal consumable while escaping the back side to set up for another run. so far 1 run about 13k damage more if flooding. Next attack run praying to RNGESUS that aa doesn't bone him and get 3 more and pray the other 3 can get back around to do it again. The reality is making more than 1 attack run is risky and on average against an NC I'm pulling 5 torps per run. So what took me about 1.5 minutes to earn 20k. A bb could have gotten 3 shots that could equal or exceed that.

Against aa spec ships a cv has to play completely different. For this example, we will use the HVAR 127mm because well they are consistent for the Lexington compared to the TT.  When Im in my Lexington and I get tired to 10. I attack aa ships with rockets. For 2 reason. 1 I play aa usn cruisers, 2 I know the time it takes for a plane travelling at 234kts to move 7km, 6km, 5.8km, and 5.6km.. FYI its 11 seconds for 7km, 9.9 for 6km. and 9.6 and 9.3 for the other 2. That is if I bost all the way in. Normally though I dodge a bit of the out LR aura then drop and boost. Tends to cut the times down to about 6 seconds or so. Because of this, I am able to get 1 quick strike with rockets for like 5-7k on the aa boats, but more importantly, I knock out aa mounts so any further attack will have less resistance. The flipside to this, however, is that strike pretty much just nuked all the wonderful superstructure damage my rockets depend on so my next strike with rockets will be less but my DB and TB won't have that problem.

Playing a cv is about ensuring your team wins more than anything else. BB tanking bow in spike some db on them to help then send in torps to force them to turn and show juicy citadels for your team to exploit. This actually works pretty good. I made an 80k health Yammy turn to avoid my torps only to eat 3 citadels from a Republique. I even gave a heads up the Republique of my intentions. The fact is if he would have taken the 6k from the torps he would have been in a much better place then turning to avoid it and eating like 45k from the Republique. He then complained for the rest of the match about how broken CV's were. 

The biggest problem the community has is not with they can't defend against aa, THEY CAN, but the fact that cv's were the 1 in 25 games novelty that you just had to deal with. Now its like 23 out of 25 games. There is a saturation effect and people have to learn new tactics to excel. I hated the rework. Complained, posted suggestions, got into heated debates, it was exhausting and nothing changed. Realizing the futility of my actions I did the only logical thing I could. Learn to play them and see what kicked my [edited]. Guess what its more than just AA cruisers. There is a slew of cruisers, bbs, and even dds I can not get more than 1 attack on due to aa. The rest tend to be very well insulated by friends and I get relegated to anti-cap duties for half the game. 

Playing wows above 50% has always been about survival, terrain usage, and knowing when to fire and how to aim. Cv's didnt really change this much. In fact it legitimized the concept of lemmings which for the longest time was something everyone rallied against. Fact is you don't need an entire 12 man fleet blob to stop most cv attacks a simple 3 man squad or div can do that pretty effectively if its 2x bb 1x cruiser, 2x cruiser 1x bb. The only thing that has changed is the spotting of dds and the follow-up attacks by the enemy team. This is something even I think needs to be changed. spotting report distance over say 15km should be mini map only.

 

THIS IS THE BEST ACTUAL HOW TO I HAVE SEEN IN A BIT. IT DOES CLEARLY DEFINE ROLE AND USE OF CV ALONG WITH MAKING BETTER CHOICES WHEN ENGAGED WITH A CV. 

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1 hour ago, The_Chiv said:

Players have control against cv attacks. Fighter planes, DFAA, sailing with others, and captain skills and components. As a cv you get 1 attack against most ships per attack run. Now if the ship is isolated, Has lost most of it's aa, or is really unlucky to catch a torp that causes a detonation the damage outputs are pretty low. If you look at say a North Carolina getting 3x citadels thats near 40k damage. In order for a Lexington to pull that off He has to fly across the map, find the best attack angle, pray his 35kt- 40kt torps were led enough and the bb is just being dumb, Hit with all three while not losing any of the remaining 6. Then pop a heal consumable while escaping the back side to set up for another run. so far 1 run about 13k damage more if flooding. Next attack run praying to RNGESUS that aa doesn't bone him and get 3 more and pray the other 3 can get back around to do it again. The reality is making more than 1 attack run is risky and on average against an NC I'm pulling 5 torps per run. So what took me about 1.5 minutes to earn 20k. A bb could have gotten 3 shots that could equal or exceed that.

Against aa spec ships a cv has to play completely different. For this example, we will use the HVAR 127mm because well they are consistent for the Lexington compared to the TT.  When Im in my Lexington and I get tired to 10. I attack aa ships with rockets. For 2 reason. 1 I play aa usn cruisers, 2 I know the time it takes for a plane travelling at 234kts to move 7km, 6km, 5.8km, and 5.6km.. FYI its 11 seconds for 7km, 9.9 for 6km. and 9.6 and 9.3 for the other 2. That is if I bost all the way in. Normally though I dodge a bit of the out LR aura then drop and boost. Tends to cut the times down to about 6 seconds or so. Because of this, I am able to get 1 quick strike with rockets for like 5-7k on the aa boats, but more importantly, I knock out aa mounts so any further attack will have less resistance. The flipside to this, however, is that strike pretty much just nuked all the wonderful superstructure damage my rockets depend on so my next strike with rockets will be less but my DB and TB won't have that problem.

Playing a cv is about ensuring your team wins more than anything else. BB tanking bow in spike some db on them to help then send in torps to force them to turn and show juicy citadels for your team to exploit. This actually works pretty good. I made an 80k health Yammy turn to avoid my torps only to eat 3 citadels from a Republique. I even gave a heads up the Republique of my intentions. The fact is if he would have taken the 6k from the torps he would have been in a much better place then turning to avoid it and eating like 45k from the Republique. He then complained for the rest of the match about how broken CV's were. 

The biggest problem the community has is not with they can't defend against aa, THEY CAN, but the fact that cv's were the 1 in 25 games novelty that you just had to deal with. Now its like 23 out of 25 games. There is a saturation effect and people have to learn new tactics to excel. I hated the rework. Complained, posted suggestions, got into heated debates, it was exhausting and nothing changed. Realizing the futility of my actions I did the only logical thing I could. Learn to play them and see what kicked my [edited]. Guess what its more than just AA cruisers. There is a slew of cruisers, bbs, and even dds I can not get more than 1 attack on due to aa. The rest tend to be very well insulated by friends and I get relegated to anti-cap duties for half the game. 

Playing wows above 50% has always been about survival, terrain usage, and knowing when to fire and how to aim. Cv's didnt really change this much. In fact it legitimized the concept of lemmings which for the longest time was something everyone rallied against. Fact is you don't need an entire 12 man fleet blob to stop most cv attacks a simple 3 man squad or div can do that pretty effectively if its 2x bb 1x cruiser, 2x cruiser 1x bb. The only thing that has changed is the spotting of dds and the follow-up attacks by the enemy team. This is something even I think needs to be changed. spotting report distance over say 15km should be mini map only.

 

Side note this game never really had manual aa controls. It had ctrl-click for focus this squad, but in a world, with single squads per cv, that system doesn't work and really the sector focus is better than that ever was.

Fighter planes are a joke...1 min duration and a long cool down, even with the premium consumable. DFAA is now worthless. I watched a unicum CC last night say that he doesn't even equip his ships with DFAA anymore as it is worthless. I thought, Yes, finally word is getting out. The balance is crapnow and leads to exactly the kind of game we didn't want; blobs hiding in back afraid to push. I would love to see stats on games times now, they seem long to me unless one side is blessed with really good cv drivers and the other...well you know.

 

Death blobs in the back is not an adequate AA defense for a game that needs action and brawling.

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1 hour ago, The_Chiv said:

Players have control against cv attacks. Fighter planes, DFAA, sailing with others, and captain skills and components.

None of this works, tried full AA builds and good CVs still strike me thourgh AA over and over again until im dead. The only thing that works is some idiot blob/lemming train. 

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17 minutes ago, MEANN said:

THIS IS THE BEST ACTUAL HOW TO I HAVE SEEN IN A BIT. IT DOES CLEARLY DEFINE ROLE AND USE OF CV ALONG WITH MAKING BETTER CHOICES WHEN ENGAGED WITH A CV. 

Thanks. Playing a cv gives you some very interesting perspective especially if you local record or rewatch replays. You begin to take notice of things, and my stat crunching brain began to need food so I did the math. I also dont play my cv like most cv players. Most cv players try to push damage. Sure they may get a second torp run or db run but end up costing themselves some economy which tbh is the one huge weakness of a cv. A cv's potential damage is tied to its planes. The more that is lost the greater the loss of potential damage. So the philosophy of "One and Done" is really an economic philosophy in order to ensure I am able to manipulate the flow of battle with the proper tools even going into the late game. Now there are times it doesn't always work. And in fact, I get blindsided by a smoke aa ship that nukes a whole squad. But for the most part, it lets me consistently push 100-150k games. Also, i use more rockets and db then torps as dealing with dds and cruisers is a higher priority for me as once these are gone farming a bb is a bit easier and the enemy will have a harder time contesting caps.

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14 minutes ago, JdeMolay said:

Fighter planes are a joke...1 min duration and a long cool down, even with the premium consumable. DFAA is now worthless. I watched a unicum CC last night say that he doesn't even equip his ships with DFAA anymore as it is worthless. I thought, Yes, finally word is getting out. The balance is crapnow and leads to exactly the kind of game we didn't want; blobs hiding in back afraid to push. I would love to see stats on games times now, they seem long to me unless one side is blessed with really good cv drivers and the other...well you know.

 

Death blobs in the back is not an adequate AA defense for a game that needs action and brawling.

DFAA IS NOT WORTHLESS. Knowing when to use it however is probably the biggest issue.  I also play USN cruisers I have all 3 of the T10's. There is a pretty important trick to it. I call it the 25% rule. Take your max aa range take away 25% and that is when you should use dfaa. for the Worcester, this is about 5.2, for ships like the Salem and DM. its about 4km. As for that cc you mentioned I can guess which ones. Just because a popular streamer or youtuber doesn't like something is not a validation of a problem. It may be a validation to confirmation bias but that's about it. The lack of accuracy debuff on DFAA is a problem. The fact like only one ship has an unlimited supply of them is another issue. They are however right as in for the most part aa will not stop and attack it can, however, kill the entire squad after the attack thus hurting the economy of the cv. Which adds up pretty quickly the more a cv pushes till the end game they can launch maybe 3 to 2 planes every sortie.

The problem with DFAA is the accuracy debuff is gone. DFAA for all ships minus DD's is 100% increase so a Worcester LR aura is going from 600 to 1200 per tick with about 5 ticks counting when the enemy turns around in it. That like 6k damage spread out and if your really lucky and the cv doesn't pass the skill test, which running away he almost always will with boost, you might get one aa flak for 4200 so that's maybe 10k. That's 62% of the health of a squad hvar rocket planes. 36% of the health of Dive bombers. And 47% of a TB squad. This is not so good at range thus waiting till they are closer makes a world of difference as at that point your more potent aa is now in range and escape is not possible. Now if they are actively attacking the Worcester the math gets a bit wonky due to boost speed, time compression, and increased chance, and the extra damage negation they get for the attack run. But in general I have spiked 29k in air damage on a single run from Midway torpedo bombers and a flight of fighters dropped to keep a dd spotted. Now I know the Worcester is a terrible example as it is the top dog of aa, but without the dfaa I would only have gotten maybe 15k damage which would not have affected the plane economy of the midway too much thus having it makes a much greater impact later in the game. And that kinda the issue I think people really have. They only see what's right in front of them rather than see the whole picture.

Let's look at real numbers. using the Worcester cause I can, versus a midway with armour and SE. whereas the Worcester has but, and aa gun mods 1 and 2. 

Enjoy. 

 

20190430_121831_PASC210-Worcester_18_NE_ice_islands.wowsreplay

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1 hour ago, Xlap said:

None of this works, tried full AA builds and good CVs still strike me thourgh AA over and over again until im dead. The only thing that works is some idiot blob/lemming train. 

just curious what ship are you playing because some ships have not the greatest aa. If possible name of ship and ss of the modules and captain skills.

 

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3 hours ago, silverdahc said:

Really believe they should pull T4 CVs from the game

 They are trash to play and the ships that are fighting against them don't really protection from them anyways

 And it would give lower tier players a chance to enjoy the game before being thrown into the meat grinder and it would allow players that don't like CVs a place to play some World War I surface combat like it should be played

 

 

It would be nice if T4 didn't have them, T4 would probably become the default "best tier" to have fun in at that point.

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6 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

It would be nice if T4 didn't have them, T4 would probably become the default "best tier" to have fun in at that point.

T5 would even get some good games time to time, and it would be more realistic time wise too

I would love to see this happen.

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8 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

It would be nice if T4 didn't have them, T4 would probably become the default "best tier" to have fun in at that point.

There is always co-op if you can not adapt.

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2 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

 

Playing a cv is about ensuring your team wins more than anything else. BB tanking bow in spike some db on them to help then send in torps to force them to turn and show juicy citadels for your team to exploit. This actually works pretty good. I made an 80k health Yammy turn to avoid my torps only to eat 3 citadels from a Republique. I even gave a heads up the Republique of my intentions. The fact is if he would have taken the 6k from the torps he would have been in a much better place then turning to avoid it and eating like 45k from the Republique. He then complained for the rest of the match about how broken CV's were. 

 

But there's another side to this coin. I was in a New Mexico recently. I was kiting away from the bad guys. I refused to turn my side toward that games version of your Republique, but that meant being nibbled to death by the GZ that decided I was late for another match. I had no realistic defense to the CV in this case. I was not isolated, I was not over extended. There was even an Italian CL nearby with DFAA. I shot down a whopping 4 planes. 

 

I strongly suspect, at this point, that for each example you can give me of CV mechanics that are not broken, I or someone else could give you at least an equal number of examples where CV mechanics are broken. So I suppose you could make the case that we've reached a weird kind of broken equilibrium, but I don't think "balanced" is quite the right word just now.

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9 minutes ago, Grflrgl said:

But there's another side to this coin. I was in a New Mexico recently. I was kiting away from the bad guys. I refused to turn my side toward that games version of your Republique, but that meant being nibbled to death by the GZ that decided I was late for another match. I had no realistic defense to the CV in this case. I was not isolated, I was not over extended. There was even an Italian CL nearby with DFAA. I shot down a whopping 4 planes. 

 

I strongly suspect, at this point, that for each example you can give me of CV mechanics that are not broken, I or someone else could give you at least an equal number of examples where CV mechanics are broken. So I suppose you could make the case that we've reached a weird kind of broken equilibrium, but I don't think "balanced" is quite the right word just now.

the problem is that AA is too rng except to minotaur magic machine gun AA and DM. everyone else can get stomped by CV if rng is not on their side.

hell i have lost squadrons because rng let shimakaze flak hit the entire squadron with flak blob.

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17 minutes ago, Grflrgl said:

But there's another side to this coin. I was in a New Mexico recently. I was kiting away from the bad guys. I refused to turn my side toward that games version of your Republique, but that meant being nibbled to death by the GZ that decided I was late for another match. I had no realistic defense to the CV in this case. I was not isolated, I was not over extended. There was even an Italian CL nearby with DFAA. I shot down a whopping 4 planes. 

 

I strongly suspect, at this point, that for each example you can give me of CV mechanics that are not broken, I or someone else could give you at least an equal number of examples where CV mechanics are broken. So I suppose you could make the case that we've reached a weird kind of broken equilibrium, but I don't think "balanced" is quite the right word just now.

Ummm you realize you are talking about a t6 vs a t8 right. You were already at a huge disadvantage. If you replace the cv with an NC you would still be at a disadvantage. Also, the GZ is a premium ship and a broken one in terms of speed versus t6 aa thus the time it spends in your aa zones is less then what t10 planes would be forced to spend in your aa zones.

As for examples Im sure you could give me tons of examples, also the duca is not a good aa ship fyi, So unless it was 3km from you it would have given you at most 98 damage constant in the LR aura with 1 flak burst 3 if it took the mod which they normally don't. 196 constant at mr with 3 flak bust 5 if they took the mod. That's pretty crap when you compare to a GZ who has a 14k health per torp squad. 

Realistically you were screwed more by uptier then anything else. A ranger versus you is a much different story.

 

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1 hour ago, The_Chiv said:

just curious what ship are you playing because some ships have not the greatest aa. If possible name of ship and ss of the modules and captain skills.

Im mostly playing ships with "supposedly good AA", like Republique, Jean Bart, Montana, Gearing, HIV. I tried nearly full AA build, with AFT, BFT, manual AA, and the flak module, the only thing that was missing was the 3m module. Doesnt matter the build, a good cv player just ignore my AA and strike over and oer again. 

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