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Timaras

If carriers are so OP....

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.... Then will somebody PLEASE explain in plain English how the torpedo aiming system is supposed to work? I can't get the torpedoes to go where I think they should go, let alone where I WANT them to go. Even if I lead the target with the green zone the torpedoes still wind up BEHIND the target. Help!

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I suppose saying "git gud" isn't going to be very helpful....

I think it's much like target lead with guns, lots of trial and error required. I still struggle with the CV torps too.

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1 minute ago, Timaras said:

.... Then will somebody PLEASE explain in plain English how the torpedo aiming system is supposed to work? I can't get the torpedoes to go where I think they should go, let alone where I WANT them to go. Even if I lead the target with the green zone the torpedoes still wind up BEHIND the target. Help!

i wish i could. i am new here but have found time playing co-op battles to be extremely helpful. i always play a couple co-ops in a new ship or with some element of the game i'm not familiar with. 

i recommend spending time with the co-op option. you gain XP and Commander XP although reduced from what is given in Random Battles. i am doing the same as we speak with DDs in particular for the very reason you are posting; to try and get a handle on aiming torps. good luck, hope it helps and that you're never on the red team when you figure it out!

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1 minute ago, chitownhustler17 said:

i wish i could. i am new here but have found time playing co-op battles to be extremely helpful. i always play a couple co-ops in a new ship or with some element of the game i'm not familiar with. 

i recommend spending time with the co-op option. you gain XP and Commander XP although reduced from what is given in Random Battles. i am doing the same as we speak with DDs in particular for the very reason you are posting; to try and get a handle on aiming torps. good luck, hope it helps and that you're never on the red team when you figure it out!

Just keep in mind that bots in co-op don't react to torps like other players do. The art of the DD torp is best learned through practice on a hybrid DD line, like the german DDs in my opinion.

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Just now, VeatherVitch said:

Just keep in mind that bots in co-op don't react to torps like other players do. The art of the DD torp is best learned through practice on a hybrid DD line, like the german DDs in my opinion.

thank you. you are correct. but it can't hurt to spend a bit of time practicing there.

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Once you commit to the drop only aim with the mouse.

There is no "lead" indicator on torps the way there are with destroyer torpedoes. So you have to manually set the lead. Why WG made two very similar but functionally different "lead" indicators is beyond me.

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12 minutes ago, Timaras said:

.... Then will somebody PLEASE explain in plain English how the torpedo aiming system is supposed to work? I can't get the torpedoes to go where I think they should go, let alone where I WANT them to go. Even if I lead the target with the green zone the torpedoes still wind up BEHIND the target. Help!

I am not a CV player but hopefully this helps you out! best of luck bud

 

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10 minutes ago, Timaras said:

Then will somebody PLEASE explain in plain English how the torpedo aiming system is supposed to work?

Use the Force, Luke.

Only kidding. Unfortunately, carrier torps are a matter of experience, often bitter. The key is to get in as close as you possibly dare without letting the ship enter the yellow zone (else the torpedo warheads will not arm and the torps will hit for zero damage and not be counted). Too much lead and they will pass ahead, but I haven't yet mastered the art of getting reliable hits on anything except battleships.

Carrier torps at maximum range are a matter of hit or miss, often miss, unless you have a lot of practice and really know what you are doing.

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If you aim with the green reticle directly at a moving target you are basically guaranteed to miss. Think of it as gunnery. You also don‘t put your crosshair on the center of a moving target, you place it on the target‘s path of movement.

That‘s how it works for the torps as well. You aim well ahead, having a feel for the torpedo‘s speed and the required lead is essential.

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17 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

If you aim with the green reticle directly at a moving target you are basically guaranteed to miss. Think of it as gunnery. You also don‘t put your crosshair on the center of a moving target, you place it on the target‘s path of movement.

That‘s how it works for the torps as well. You aim well ahead, having a feel for the torpedo‘s speed and the required lead is essential.

I'm working through the T4 CVs at the moment, and man, leading the 40kt torps on Langley and Hermes is pretty painful.  At least Hosho is semi-managable at 57kts.  But like those above, it takes getting used to and I'm still learning the ropes as well.

Any advice on flak dodging while still maintaining reliable ordinance drops?  I'm finding lately flak bursts are wiping out planes like crazy during my drop activation periods.

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Same as when you aim your guns at a moving target.. You must predict to where the target ship will go.. And as @SireneRacker mentions, make sure your DB crosshair is in the center and Torp aim ahead of the ship.. You will have to adjust where to aim due to the fact that ships have different speed, IE, Brit cruisers are fast and need far more ahead while lower tier BBs are genuinely slower thus need bit closer to the bow

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2 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Any advice on flak dodging while still maintaining reliable ordinance drops?  I'm finding lately flak bursts are wiping out planes like crazy during my drop activation periods.

While moving left and right will decrease your accuracy, try to slow down/speed up to minimize flak dmg. W.S keys help a lot

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4 minutes ago, Nagato_Kai__Ni said:

While moving left and right will decrease your accuracy, try to slow down/speed up to minimize flak dmg. W.S keys help a lot

I have been trying that, but to limited success.  Maybe I'm dropping to close to the ships and the short range AA on the lower tier ships is too strong for my paper napkin planes?  I mean, how close should one be dropping 40kt torps at T4?

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Just now, Ace_04 said:

I have been trying that, but to limited success.  Maybe I'm dropping to close to the ships and the short range AA on the lower tier ships is too strong for my paper napkin planes?  I mean, how close should one be dropping 40kt torps at T4?

T4 has the weakest planes, and frankly they are the toughest... Its not the matter of dropping close or far. ofcourse droping closer will yield a higher hit rate. If there is a cluster of decent AA ships, just drop quickly regardless of aim rectile, for isolated targets, get closer.. I myself dont play ( actually played on 10 or so battles in T4, rest higher tiers) much T4 so i wont be that much of a help in that realm

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12 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

I'm working through the T4 CVs at the moment, and man, leading the 40kt torps on Langley and Hermes is pretty painful.  At least Hosho is semi-managable at 57kts.  But like those above, it takes getting used to and I'm still learning the ropes as well.

Any advice on flak dodging while still maintaining reliable ordinance drops?  I'm finding lately flak bursts are wiping out planes like crazy during my drop activation periods.

I must admit that my experience is so far limited to GZ alone, so it‘s rather difficult to tell for other ships. But with her 40kn torps and with the faster ships at T6-10 I can very much understand your suffering :p

Regarding dodging what I do is to abuse the approach immunity. When you are starting the attack run with TBs you become virtually immune to flak damage, as the bursts all spawn above you. Continuous damage however continues to tick. That allows you to attack even more dangerous targets with relative effectiveness. Approach immunity also works like that for DBs and Attack aircraft.

Other than that it‘s a matter of WASD hacking whenever possible.

 

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45 minutes ago, Timaras said:

.... Then will somebody PLEASE explain in plain English how the torpedo aiming system is supposed to work? I can't get the torpedoes to go where I think they should go, let alone where I WANT them to go. Even if I lead the target with the green zone the torpedoes still wind up BEHIND the target. Help!

You have to lead by quite a lot, and even more depending on your angle relative to the target. With USN or RN torps, the torpedo speed is not much faster than the ship speed (in some cases actually slower)! However long your minimum arm distance is, you need to drop about that far (or a bit further) ahead of the ship. Even more on things like DDs and French cruisers, and more still if your angle is "chasing" to some degree, rather than square-on.

This was a 25 torp game in a bottom tier Enterprise. It was recorded directly rather than a replay, so you can see my reticle and such when I'm lining up the drops:

https://youtu.be/EWSfdqmFAo0

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52 minutes ago, Timaras said:

.... Then will somebody PLEASE explain in plain English how the torpedo aiming system is supposed to work? I can't get the torpedoes to go where I think they should go, let alone where I WANT them to go. Even if I lead the target with the green zone the torpedoes still wind up BEHIND the target. Help!

You should bring a battlebuddy to protect your planes from other ships.

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Hey Timaras, as someone who wasn't even adept at the old system of CVs I had to start fresh like a lot of folks and torpedo launches were incredibly frustrating initially.  I found Tier IV torps planes my last resort and only utilized them after rockets and bombs.  That being said the practice you'll get from utilizing those single drop torpedos will help you with the higher tier planes and eventually you'll be able to drop a full spread.  You'll still miss sometimes (for some of us a LOT of times), but learning to lead the target will get easier.

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6 minutes ago, Nagato_Kai__Ni said:

T4 has the weakest planes, and frankly they are the toughest... Its not the matter of dropping close or far. ofcourse droping closer will yield a higher hit rate. If there is a cluster of decent AA ships, just drop quickly regardless of aim rectile, for isolated targets, get closer.. I myself dont play ( actually played on 10 or so battles in T4, rest higher tiers) much T4 so i wont be that much of a help in that realm

 

5 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

I must admit that my experience is so far limited to GZ alone, so it‘s rather difficult to tell for other ships. But with her 40kn torps and with the faster ships at T6-10 I can very much understand your suffering :p

Regarding dodging what I do is to abuse the approach immunity. When you are starting the attack run with TBs you become virtually immune to flak damage, as the bursts all spawn above you. Continuous damage however continues to tick. That allows you to attack even more dangerous targets with relative effectiveness. Approach immunity also works like that for DBs and Attack aircraft.

Other than that it‘s a matter of WASD hacking whenever possible.

 

Thanks for the advice.  I fully understand the trial and error of things, and that it's likely going to take at least a hundred games in CVs to get a decent handle on them.  I'm also of the understanding that the real challenge/fun doesn't start until T6 CVs, which basically leaves the T4 ones there just to get a handle on the basics.

It will be interesting to see the changes when moving up to T6, as that's about the point where DFAA becomes more prevalent on many ships.  Guess I'll have to learn the bait tactics on that as well at some point down the road.

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1 hour ago, Timaras said:

.... Then will somebody PLEASE explain in plain English how the torpedo aiming system is supposed to work? I can't get the torpedoes to go where I think they should go, let alone where I WANT them to go. Even if I lead the target with the green zone the torpedoes still wind up BEHIND the target. Help!

Try this: next time you load up, wherever you were going to aim the torpedoes, aim them at least a ship length ahead of that. Try your best to make them ALL go AHEAD of the target on purpose, pretend you are trying to miss on purpose. Also, attack from the front. Most BB's will turn the moment they see torp bombers, out of instinct, not thinking that it works against them if you were not pre-aligned.

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there is a captain skill that can speed up your CV torps and make sure you drop as close as possible, dropping way out is a recipe for missing.

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1 hour ago, Timaras said:

.... Then will somebody PLEASE explain in plain English how the torpedo aiming system is supposed to work? I can't get the torpedoes to go where I think they should go, let alone where I WANT them to go. Even if I lead the target with the green zone the torpedoes still wind up BEHIND the target. Help!

It's a bit misleading because you're thinking with the plane speed, not torp speed. I generally lead at least 1-2x the target ship's length (if BB) or aiming my right-most torp where the CR is trying to dodge. Almost impossible to hit DDs with TB unless caught him beaching.

Use training room and have the bots move around. You'll find that when thinking in terms of the torp speed, it's easier to lead properly.

1 hour ago, Ace_04 said:

I'm working through the T4 CVs at the moment, and man, leading the 40kt torps on Langley and Hermes is pretty painful.  At least Hosho is semi-managable at 57kts.  But like those above, it takes getting used to and I'm still learning the ropes as well.

Any advice on flak dodging while still maintaining reliable ordinance drops?  I'm finding lately flak bursts are wiping out planes like crazy during my drop activation periods.

T4 planes are not agile enough to dodge most flak. T6 is when the planes get quick enough to do that. I just come at the target ship from an angle, and have my final turn bring my planes to the target at my desired angle.

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Wg made planes fragile so cruiser and bb can have fun killing them. This is why you have many planes.....if you are not in Saipan:Smile_trollface:

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3 hours ago, Timaras said:

.... Then will somebody PLEASE explain in plain English how the torpedo aiming system is supposed to work? I can't get the torpedoes to go where I think they should go, let alone where I WANT them to go. Even if I lead the target with the green zone the torpedoes still wind up BEHIND the target. Help!

I mostly use the "drop at the last second" tactic.  These are drops where the torps arm just before they hit.  Leading takes a little bit of practice.  One key is to be on a good lead trajectory as the run starts...and only make small adjustments with the mouse.  This allows the torp cone time to converge into a parallel beam.  If you time the run properly, you will get convergence with a few seconds to make final lead adjustments before the drop.

Just like with shooting ships, you gotta realize smaller is usually (but not always) faster and you gotta read the smoke stack.

Also, ship trajectory needs to be taken into account when it comes to torp arming and how close you can get.  If they are turning toward you, then drop earlier.  If turning away, you wait longer.

If you find your torps are always going behind the target, keep increasing your lead.  Some fast CAs require a LOT of lead.  Also, the final few seconds before the drop, reading the smoke and ship trajectory is important.  Many players hit the brakes and/or turn.  Use those final few seconds to tweak your  aim point to counter those moves.

Lastly, although you want the aiming cone to converge in most cases, you can actually use the cone to your advantage in some instances.  For example, sometimes if you're turning to get a good lead but can't bring the nose around enough to get convergence (or the arming time and/or the arming distance is almost up), then you can aim based on the cone and hope for the best.  I've gotten many kills that way.  Here's an example...the DD in the following video surprise me...I knew he was somewhere, but by the time I spotted him I couldn't get aligned properly, so I lead with the left cone angle:

 

Watch my other CV videos...lots of torp drops showing my lead and drop points.

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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The last point to drop ordnance is when the counter reads 1.0 in red... anything less and you risk the ordnance not being released. It's why I hate the Lex so much but still play her. The DB timings around islands can really muck you up. But your question was torps.

Factor One... the red ship, your target. Cast a quick glance at the mini-map. See the line extending off the bow of your target? If it's turning away from your TB, he's turning away from you. If you aim the normal one ship length (for a BB) you'll likely miss him. If he's good, he'll not only turn hard but also cut his speed/throttle back. You turn faster with forward momentum but no throttle. If you see him turning away, turn towards him a bit more, maybe 1/3rd or 1/2 of your normal lead. If he's turning towards your planes, you either turn further away and drop or you save the torps and circle back.

Factor Two: The carrier you are driving. I've played all three lines into tier X. I prefer the RN line. Everyone tells me I'm mad. But I feel I lose the minimum amount of aircraft running in on a TB run than I do using the ships of other nations. When you get to tier X, the Audacious torps come closer together, instead of spreading out. Carriers of other nations will more or less go in a straight line or spread out. So be aware not only the dispersion of your torps but their speed.

What I do with my carriers/commanders is totally, completely focus on all aircraft modules/perks/skills/camos, you name it I run it. 

Oh... one last thought... when you are using some carriers for TB runs, any turning after you trigger you intend to drop torp (first LMB click) will cause the pattern to widen, which really stinks. The RN line does not do this. It's always better to get into the general direction of your drop then once you LMB click, try to use your mouse gently to fine tune. WASD help too... as you can slow your attack to give the reticle time to narrow down, or boost faster towards the target. 

I typically wait to start my attack only when I'm being fired upon by the target's AA(A).  I know all my ordnance is usable at that range. I'll then LMB click and once I'm clearly into the run to target, I'll press the W key to boost towards them. After drop, when available, I'll R boost out of there to the next target, turn hard for another run or simply press the F key. 

Hope some of that's helpful. 

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