BB Why are AP shells over penning other BBs so much?

[General_Strom]

Been playing BBs this morning at tier 5 and 6 Texas and Arizona and it seems AP is just worthless as I am over penning all the time on other BBs?  Is this normal?

[SJ_Sailer]

I am not a BB guy but are you hitting superstructure?  I know Cruiser AP will do that also if you do not aim low enough.

[Lert]

Where are you hitting other BBs? They have armor schemes with different thicknesses all over, and if you hit the softer parts, yes, you'll just overpen. This is normal.

[DrHolmes52]

Just now, Lert said:

Where are you hitting other BBs? They have armor schemes with different thicknesses all over, and if you hit the softer parts, yes, you'll just overpen. This is normal.

At mid to lower tiers, even moreso.

[Xcalib3r]

3 minutes ago, General_Strom said:

Been playing BBs this morning at tier 5 and 6 Texas and Arizona and it seems AP is just worthless as I am over penning all the time on other BBs?  Is this normal?

Yes it's normal.  You have to aim and shoot at the Radio Antenna to get some meaningful pen dmg.

[General_Strom]

Well I aim at the sea level. Should I aim higher?

[Gavroche_]

1 minute ago, General_Strom said:

Well I aim at the sea level. Should I aim higher?

I would aim at the upper belt armor. It’s more consistent with pens and it’s not like you won’t get citadels as well.

[General_Strom]

1 hour ago, Lert said:

Where are you hitting other BBs? They have armor schemes with different thicknesses all over, and if you hit the softer parts, yes, you'll just overpen. This is normal.

I usually hit mid center to the rear.

[General_Strom]

1 minute ago, Gavroche_ said:

I would aim at the upper belt armor. It’s more consistent with pens and it’s not like you won’t get citadels as well.

So about mid of the side of a ship?

 

[Lert]

1 minute ago, General_Strom said:

I usually hit mid center to the rear.

If you hit too high, you'll overpen. The juicy bits are usually near the waterline. Even then, you might overpen if the ship has its citadel submerged.

[Gavroche_]

Just now, General_Strom said:

So about mid of the side of a ship?

 

Yeah, that’s the best place to aim with 14” guns in my experience. With the more accurate and higher penetration 16” on higher tier BBs you can get away with shooting at the waterline for more citadels, but I find that lower tier BBs are better off aiming at the middle.

[General_Strom]

1 minute ago, Lert said:

If you hit too high, you'll overpen. The juicy bits are usually near the waterline. Even then, you might overpen if the ship has its citadel submerged.

Yeah I aim at the waterline trying to hit mid ship.

[Kanak_Unconquerable_hero]

If you are over penning and the ship is broadside, you are either hitting the nose, stern, superstructure or upper armor belt near the deck of lightly armored BBs. Hitting broadside BBs in the center near the water line will not result in over penetrations but penetrations and/or even a citadel or two.

When angled, BB AP over pens of pens BB superstructure based on angle and how high you shoot it.

[NightTerror]

How about long distance +20km plunging fire?  Seems way more common, even on T10 BBs.

[Fletcher7_1944]

  It depends on WHAT BB you're shooting at,   As well as how generous- or how dickish- RNG is being to you at the time.   For example,  NY and NM use an all or nothing armor scheme- the bow, stern, and superstructure have essentially no armor, other than the plate they are made of.    BB caliber AP Shots into them- especially from the side- will just poke on through without doing much.   Even with good aim, dispersion will cause your shells to hit these parts often, even if you aim for the waterline under the stacks.   NY's 14" twin turrets are infamous for that...  (either they all stick together in a tight group and devastate something- or they pull the old hi-low/ left-right splits and hit nothing but water, with perhaps a token overpen from a clipped stack or mast tip...)   To be honest, if NY was as accurate as it's players wish it were, it would be OP as hell.  That thing hits HARD!

  Now, if you are shooting at a bow on NY- that's a different story.  Unless RNG screws you, or they turn at the last minute, those salvos can deliver citadel hits.   There's very little to stop your projectiles from slamming into the forward armored bulkhead nice and flat.  And there is DEFINITELY enough armor there to arm your fuzes.   That's why it is SO important to angle properly when sailing a US Standard- you don't want that Queen E or Fuso etc. shooting at your bow strait on, you want em hitting your armor belt at an angle to bounce them off.  

  Those with better bow armor or extended belts SHOULD yield fewer overpens, but we all know how it is, lol.

  All I can say is wait until you get to a BB that's really considered inaccurate, lol- those will make you scream obscenities at your screen regularly...   Bismarck comes to mind...    Lately RNG has NOT been my friend.   Too often, it looks like I threw a handfull of pebbles at someone, rather than firing Naval rifles.

  I have seen rumblings around,  about BB AP being somewhat borked since the change that made it  only overpen DD's.   I'm not a designer or programmer, though.

  It sounds like you have simply been getting RNG trolled. lately.   It happens to- and annoys the hell out of- all of us.

 

 

 

[Fletcher7_1944]

32 minutes ago, General_Strom said:

So about mid of the side of a ship?

 

  If you're shooting at a German BB,  I usually aim a touch higher- for the secondary deck.   14" AP normally just bounces off the armor belt and/or turtleback of those.   The secondary deck, otoh, will yield you a bunch of normal pens.   New Mex/ Arizona are especially good for this, with their 12 gun broadsides.   3 normal pens = a citadel, damage-wise, so a decently accurate hit will deal 12+k salvos easy.  

  US 8" AP, same thing- forget shooting at BB armor belts, aim a touch higher and you can hurt them badly.

  I'd suggest taking a look at typical opponents in port via the armor viewer.  That will give you an idea of where to aim and where not to.   Some ships have some interesting armor layouts, and/or citadels that aren't where you'd think they are.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

2 hours ago, Lert said:

Where are you hitting other BBs? They have armor schemes with different thicknesses all over, and if you hit the softer parts, yes, you'll just overpen. This is normal.

I want to add this thread below to Lert's comment.

The OP in that thread was using Roma and had according to him, 7.4km waterline shot at a Richelieu and was getting tons of Overpens.  We examined, tested, and explained why that was happening.

 

Everyone would like to get the big, fancy Citadel strikes, but there are cases where settling for "only" Penetration shots is the best you can get.

Citadel Hit > Penetration > Overpen

Take what you can realistically get given the situation.