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Stronk Russian Battleships: First Impressions

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1 hour ago, Sammy_Small said:

Well I guess one has to play it like a Nuremberg / Pensacola and try not to get hit by other BBs

it's very much a battlecruiser, and was designed as such. You bully cruisers, and as soon as the heavy hitters start entering the fray, you get out. 

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39 minutes ago, Sledgehammer427 said:

it's very much a battlecruiser, and was designed as such. You bully cruisers, and as soon as the heavy hitters start entering the fray, you get out. 

That is a problem, you can't really "get out" with out eating citadel damage tough the stern or side, as you are trying to hide your stern weakness.
Sitting bow on a reversing is just asking to get HE spammed / burned to death.

I guess there is always an option to play it like a USN Cruiser, hug a low lying island and sling 731m/s HE shells, but that just feels wrong.

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The Izmail made me feel like the Hood facing the Bismarck quite often. I have been deleted in 4 of the 8 games I have played in damned if you do damned if you don't crosssfires.The most egregious example was being taken out by a Massachusetts at @ 20km sailing out of smoke without getting a shot off in return.

Edited by TheTrickpony

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Izmail definitely seems to be the squishiest of the lot, for its tier. I'd say it's definitely also the weakest, tier-for-tier, of the four we have so far; it's reasonably fast, but otherwise doesn't enjoy any advantages in firepower or armor, especially with that paper-thin stern citadel (and the bow isn't that much better, at only 75mm) that gets overmatched by any 15" gun or larger. At tier 6, you face a LOT of those.

--Helms

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2 hours ago, thehelmsman said:

any 15" gun or larger. At tier 6, you face a LOT of those.

I long for the good old days where it was just Warspite with that kind of firepower. Now it seems everyone can overmatch your nose. 

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On 4/26/2019 at 12:40 AM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

HE Spammers, have fun trying to get pens on this thing once the Superstructure has been Damage Saturated.

AP?  Peter can face tank Yamato-class 460mm AP.  The 75mm bow and 127mm fore end armor belt laughs in Russian.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds

No other line of Battleships ships can say that.  The vulnerability though is AP to the sides. 

 

I just don't understand what possessed them to do that. Every other BB at that tier (unless I am forgetting something) has 19mm bow armor, so let's make it 75mm???

Any CL it faces (or most DDs either) will have almost no way to deal with it unless you yolo in to torpedo it, and good luck with that with those close in accurate hard hitting guns. The same tier BBs will have little to counter it except HE at long range perhaps? (RN BBs might be ok here) and then it can bow tank and respond in kind or better. Hoping your opponents misplays and shows broadside does happen a lot at low tiers but hope isn't a strategy.

I know most people only concern themselves with tier 7 and up, but unbalanced is still unbalanced and at low tiers with these ships (tiers 3, 4, 5) it will just frustrate anyone working up any other BB or CL line.

At least the tier 6 and up looks a lot like the other BBs armor at those tiers with 25mm/32mm bow and stern.

 

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28 minutes ago, Ironshroud said:

I just don't understand what possessed them to do that. Every other BB at that tier (unless I am forgetting something) has 19mm bow armor, so let's make it 75mm???

Any CL it faces (or most DDs either) will have almost no way to deal with it unless you yolo in to torpedo it, and good luck with that with those close in accurate hard hitting guns. The same tier BBs will have little to counter it except HE at long range perhaps? (RN BBs might be ok here) and then it can bow tank and respond in kind or better. Hoping your opponents misplays and shows broadside does happen a lot at low tiers but hope isn't a strategy.

I know most people only concern themselves with tier 7 and up, but unbalanced is still unbalanced and at low tiers with these ships (tiers 3, 4, 5) it will just frustrate anyone working up any other BB or CL line.

At least the tier 6 and up looks a lot like the other BBs armor at those tiers with 25mm/32mm bow and stern.

 

While that bow armor does look good, you eat penetrations for days when other battleships would just eat overpens. 
Also, for the style of play you find yourself using, I know I found myself blundering into a handful of torpedoes. If you're sailing as a group, yeah, you're bound to dish out a lot of hurt, but really, I haven't found all that extra armor to be stupendously helpful. 

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46 minutes ago, Ironshroud said:

I just don't understand what possessed them to do that. Every other BB at that tier (unless I am forgetting something) has 19mm bow armor, so let's make it 75mm???

Any CL it faces (or most DDs either) will have almost no way to deal with it unless you yolo in to torpedo it, and good luck with that with those close in accurate hard hitting guns. The same tier BBs will have little to counter it except HE at long range perhaps? (RN BBs might be ok here) and then it can bow tank and respond in kind or better. Hoping your opponents misplays and shows broadside does happen a lot at low tiers but hope isn't a strategy.

I know most people only concern themselves with tier 7 and up, but unbalanced is still unbalanced and at low tiers with these ships (tiers 3, 4, 5) it will just frustrate anyone working up any other BB or CL line.

At least the tier 6 and up looks a lot like the other BBs armor at those tiers with 25mm/32mm bow and stern.

 

The mentioned side vulnerability was already mentioned.

Torpedoes are a regular key weakness for most of these RU BBs.  Pyotr is 13% TDS, which is abysmally low.  There's some pretty good torpedo DDs in Pyotr's MM bracket.  The worst will be Carriers with Torp Bombers.

Another issue is gunnery.  It's pretty good for what you get with 8 guns, but it's not going to scare anyone unless her guns are aimed right at you and the range is real close.  And if you are super close to Pyotr, then that means you got real chances to slam her citadel from the sides or drop torps.

 

In another light, Tier V Pyotr is the Defense and Stealth oriented RU BB while VI Izmail is geared towards a better Main Battery but loses the armor that Pyotr had.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 hours ago, Ironshroud said:

TY very much, I do appreciate the different points of view on these new ships.

Some guys are going to get surprised when this line releases fully and move from Tier V -> Tier VI and finding themselves getting crushed by Overmatching shells that Pyotr would have laughed at.

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Just got Sinop for Tier VII.  IMO this is a very important BB.  Not so much for Randoms as anyone and everyone brings in anything they can.  But for the PVE side of the game, Tier VII is a crucial tier and certain BBs here are serious workhorses in Operation Narai.

Some brief information gathered on this ship for you guys:

 

Spoiler

D017Gin.jpg

Speed is decent at 27kts.  You're faster than slow a.f. LOLORADO's 21kts but you're not fast like Gneisenau's 32kts.  You're decent and it could have been a lot worse (glances at LOLORADO again).

Turning Circle Radius is 960mm, which is quite wide.  LOLORADO is 640m.  Nagato is 770m and IJN BBs are considered lazy turn BBs, yet Sinop is even worse by almost 200m.

Rudder Shift Time is 12.9 seconds.  LOLORADO is 14.2 seconds.  Nagato is 13.7 seconds.  Gneisenau is 11.8 seconds.

So, Sinop has middle of the road speed, fairly good in speed and rudder shift time, but she's extremely lazy executing turns.

 

Concealment?  Some values with concealment camo but no Concealment Expert trait.

Sinop 14.6km (meh)

Gneisenau 15.2km, LOLORADO 16.2km, Nagato 16.6km, KGV at 14.1km.

Sinop's concealment is pretty good for a Tier VII BB considering how bad it can get out there.

 

Without having taken the ship out to battle yet, the main battery numbers don't look too great.  The 17.37km gun range doesn't bother me, but 33 second reload, 1.6 Sigma, and 9 rifles max look mediocre.  Tack on the 60 second turret traverse, it really doesn't look good.

HE Fire Chance is fine at 41%.

The AP is still good but Nagato and Colorado 16" AP is a bit better.  AP Pen, Shell Flight Time, Angle of Impact, it's pretty close with the USN & IJN counterparts for 16" AP this tier.
 

Spoiler

 

P1hbOpO.jpg

rfOQj5P.jpg

 

It doesn't look too good for Sinop's guns compared to Nagato and Colorado, but you do have 9 rifles to their 8.  You also got the RU BB gimmick that their guns get more accurate with less range.  We'll see how that turns out.

 

Secondary Battery is below, no SBM1 upgrade or Secondary buffing skills.

Spoiler

lhH1sNj.jpg

And here is how the Secondaries look with AFT, BFT traits along with SBM1 upgrade installed.  The range is good but it's not Gneisenau good who reaches out to 7.63km with a similar Secondaries Build.

Spoiler

nliuOOv.jpg

Below is an overhead view so you can see the Main & Secondary Battery arrangement.

Spoiler

6ccVEns.jpg

Arrangement is pretty decent, you can angle and present most of your Main & Secondary Battery guns.  Below are the sharpest forward and rear angles I could use while still being able to use all the Main Battery turrets.

Spoiler

CsNiIAB.jpg

As is a trick with the RU BBs and their above average good Rudder Shift Times, you can unmask the rear turret and fire all guns, then use turn a bit and mask the rear turret again and assume an even better angled profile.  Good Rudder Shift Time is a common trait with this Line.

 

Last, let's look at armor.  16mm superstructure, 25mm bow and deck armor is a common feature for Tier VII BBs.  You do however got thick Fore End Armor Belt which isn't.  If you're angled and big BB AP lands there, they'll bounce.  But if they impact a bit higher in that 25mm bow, 380mm+ AP will Overmatch and Penetrate.

Spoiler

Mf48ZSt.jpg

Take note below the strange, half-a**ed 100mm angled deck.  It only rises halfway up as the citadel rises out of the waterline.
 

Spoiler

 

Wm4T1Tw.jpg

2CtFyDM.jpg

 

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Oh boy oh boy I was just WAITING for you to get to Sinop, Haze! I like her personally. The guns are decently comfortable if slow to turn and load, her armor is solid for bow-tanking (but what Russian BB isn't?) and her rudder responsiveness is nice. That said, it's the little details that drag her down from "strong" to "good-ish" or "okay" depending on the situation. Her turning circle, dispersion at range, propensity to catch fire under the constant rain of HE she endures, etc. and so on.

Oh yeah, and that utterly memetic "turtle-back" armor that goes nearly vertical at the ends. It actually flairs out to a decent angle about halfway down, but that just means shells bounce into your citadel bulkhead.

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Morning all,

I just wanted to chime in and give my two cents on the Pyotr Velikiy. I agree with what most of the early posters have said. Overall, (with the exception of the insane bow armour) I feel she is a very fun ship to play. I find her shells and reload time to be challenging at times, but I have enjoyed her in the few battles I have played with her. I try to not to show my sides too much and I move to support where I am needed. As tier V, she can move around a fair bit and as mentioned before her AA, is decent, especially if combined with your neighbor's AA.

 Enjoy

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Pyotr Velikiy: weak citadel, powerful guns.

I was waiting for these ships.

Veliky9.png

Veliky10.png

Veliky11.png

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Honestly, I love the Sinop so far. 

with 9 rifles at play I've landed shots outside of "optimal range" where the reds thought they were safe. Oddly enough, I do better in tier 9 matches where people must not expect much from me over when I'm top tier. Luckily, no shortage of 9s lately. Her AA is good enough, her armor is good enough. I've had those awesome long range hits and I've had some absolute crap dispersion in close. She's choosy, it seems. Overall, I'm excited to get the Kreml and the Slava/Pobeda when they release, I've been waiting a long time for a line like this, I'm sorry for the guys who didn't get what they wanted for the next tree, but I'm incredibly pleased. 

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On 5/1/2019 at 1:23 AM, Landsraad said:

Oh boy oh boy I was just WAITING for you to get to Sinop, Haze! I like her personally. The guns are decently comfortable if slow to turn and load, her armor is solid for bow-tanking (but what Russian BB isn't?) and her rudder responsiveness is nice. That said, it's the little details that drag her down from "strong" to "good-ish" or "okay" depending on the situation. Her turning circle, dispersion at range, propensity to catch fire under the constant rain of HE she endures, etc. and so on.

Oh yeah, and that utterly memetic "turtle-back" armor that goes nearly vertical at the ends. It actually flairs out to a decent angle about halfway down, but that just means shells bounce into your citadel bulkhead.

The "turtleback" is good enough to get you rekt :Smile_trollface:

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On 5/2/2019 at 2:41 PM, D_Churruca said:

Pyotr Velikiy: weak citadel, powerful guns.

I was waiting for these ships.

Insanely OP she certainly is. The APs are like British HEs. They deal a ton of damage from any angle.

Pyotr Velikiy's secondaries are frustratingly weak. They have no accuracy. The weak citadel issue (along with poor maneuverability) can be mitigated by premeditated angling. As a brawler she is as stronk as a beast.

Untitled.thumb.png.56b7b5881004d271c73f9c557d144345.png

Here is an example:

 

Edited by _Marines
Added video

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So... I've been playing Vlad a bit. I can definitely see this being a good ship in the right hands, but I'm thinking that those hands are probably not mine. I play too aggressively and tend to have both lousy luck and timing at critical moments. I don't really feel I've been doing terribly so far, but I could definitely do better than averaging 30k a match and dying so quickly. Let's look at my last two matches to see why:

My first match is on Trap, tier 10, spawning a few ships down from the northern end of the south/east team's line. Naturally I head north. Now since I know that I'm vulnerable until I get into position I gun the throttle to full and keep it there, while making sure that my teammates are between me and the enemy. It's a Republique, a Zao, and another cruiser traveling in formation, so I should be good. As we start passing the islands around C cap the enemy makes their presence known. They've got a Lion, a Musashi, a Roon, and a couple of other ships. Nobody wants to be the one to push into the cap, I don't blame them. We spot by a Fletcher in the middle of the cap, 11k out, perfect target! He naturally pops smoke and busts a U-turn to hide, but we've got all our shots out. Mine misses. I'd taken the risk because I figured that the group would be the more enticing target. That was mistake number one. The Fletcher breaks concealment again for a moment and I fire again, the others now trading shots with targets of opportunity, and... That is a LOT of AP headed for my very exposed broadside! Most of it bounces (cruiser rounds, thankfully) buuuut the nine shells with the pretty red tracers don't. I've been Yamamoto'd by the Musashi. I manage to duck behind the farthest northern island and begin rounding it before he can follow-up, but the damage is done: I'm at half-health for the rest of the match with no hope of repair. A few minutes of bow-tanking the Roon and torpedo-beating in reverse later, I'm dead with just over 28k damage done. Moral of this story: Don't expect people to shoot who you think they will, assume the worst thing to get hit with is what's pointed at you. Also, sailing broadside? That's a paddlin'.

Second match! Domination on Estuary, tier 8 with a tier 8 and a tier 6 CV on each team. I'm on the south team again and spawn roughly in the middle, a little to the west. So I head with about 60% of the team to A. It soon becomes VERY apparent that the enemy is forming a lemming train to D. EXCELLENT! I cut close around one of the big angled islands, not bothering to go through the cap, and head straight for B. And hey, there's a Baltimore to my aft-port that's doing the same thing, double excellent! We even have matching EXTREMELY PATRIOTIC permacamos, this is becoming a Bill and Ted movie with how excellent it is! So we break cover headed into B, I slow to 1/2 and brace for incoming fire. Their Ryujo and a Mogami are already on me so I start trading with the Mogami (side-note, the Ryujo stayed where he spawned. NEVER DO THIS! It got him killed by me when he tried to run and I noticed that he had almost no HP left, yay for potshots!). Mogami is doing a heck of a job trying to tax my DamCon with those 155s, but since I'm in the thick of it I'm not sparing any charges. As soon as I get a double I douse it and heal the rest back. Now I had moved into this position ahead of everyone thinking "Do not worry comrades, stronk Soviet bettleship will draw their fire from you!" The problem this match? My plan worked. By the end I had the Mogami, the Lexington, the King George, and at least two other ships all shooting me at once. I couldn't keep up with the damage they were dealing and died with just under 40k done myself. BUT! I call this one a success. Again, I did exactly what I set out to: I drew their fire and held their attention for as long as possible so that the rest of the team could stall out their push through D (which they did) and pincer them from behind through B (which they did). I may not have topped the score board, but my contribution played a role in helping the team win. Moral of this story: Live for the team, die for the team, but don't die stupidly.

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14 hours ago, Landsraad said:

my contribution played a role in helping the team win. Moral of this story: Live for the team, die for the team, but don't die stupidly.

This technically applies across the board, regardless of faction or specific type, but it really is the focal point of playing RU battleships. They really give you the ability to be a Tank as tanks are known to be, and soak up damage for the team. Sure you'll probably die but during the time you're alive you're just a big riot shield for your team with a baton the size of a tree trunk

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I have them all as I was lucky enough to get all 4 missions. I have likes and dislikes in general and find the RU BB's a strange lot that want to play as in your face brawlers but that is not a good idea with their sides so weak, pretty bad maneuverability, and poor secondary guns. The guns scream GET CLOSE :Smile_izmena: and the rest of the ship screams GET BACK! :Smile_hiding:

General Pro:

  • Guns. As long as you are close enough for the RU BB "all is balans comrade" magic dispersion to kick in the guns are very accurate and the AP hits like freight trains. Once you have to shoot near their max range it is a real crap shoot and really not worth wasting the shells but inside say 12km and less (closer the better) it is amazing how accurate they get..
  • Speed. All of them are either fast for their tier or fast enough. No sloths in this line T5-T8 which I personally love. Nothing worse than being so slow you can't ever catch up to the fight.
  • Tanky. As long as you protect that side (and you MUST!) these things can tank like a champ. I had a game in Vlad where I took 2.6 Million potential but only 8K something actual (all rounds - no torp dodges). 
  • Concealment. It's actually not that bad for a BB. You can get in near the range you need to be at for the guns without being spotted.

General Con:

  • 33 sec reload SUCKS!
  • Side armor. There is no ifs ands or buts about it. If you show your side in one of these RU BB's, and at some point you will because no one can angle against every threat all the time, you are toast if the other person can aim (or you face bots with their laser like accuracy). Every single one of them feels like it has Emerald or Kirov armor on the side. You just can not make a mistake or you pay for it. Bow tanking and angled they are untouchable almost but once enough of that side is exposed, or god forbid someone gets a shot full flat broad, these things eats citadels like Rosie O'Donnell eats cake. These might be the easiest BB's I have seen to 1 shot if you get broadside (and I have finished every BB line to T10).
  • Secondary guns. Meh is a good description. The number of them varies ship to ship but they fire pretty slow (most) and they don't have much range really. The T8 could be "ok" I would say if you went full on sec build but even then range will be an issue. For ships meant to be in the mid to close range these should have been better even if JUST more range.
  • Turning Circle and Rudder Shift. Start your turn the game before the one you want to turn in and expect it to complete sometimes 5 or 6 minutes into the following game. Nuff said. :Smile_trollface:

I would rate them as follows as far as how good they are...

  1. Vladivostok
  2. Pyotr Velikiy (a case could be made for it being 1 as it is a beast for T5 - I just like the T8 better)
  3. Izmail
  4. Sinop

I am not a big fan of the T6 and T7 but really enjoy T8 and T5. I already have well over 200K XP on the T8 and am ready for the full line to drop so I can get the T9. 

These are not the "Glorious Hands Of Stalin" OP monsters I expected WG to come up with. The guns are absolutely brutal but they have weaknesses and flaws. Looking forward to the T9 and the 2 T10's. :Smile_honoring:

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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I have the T5 Pyotr Velikiy and the T7 Sinop so far.  I've only played a game or two in each, but enough to get down the gist.

T5 Pyotr Velikiy is strong.  It's that classic battlecruiser design shared by the Prinz Eitel Friedrich and the Kongo, which I think is super cool looking.  The gunnery hits hard and is accurate enough to get the job done, but very slow reload.  Armor is off the chain from the front.  Speed is good.  Very large ship though.  To me, the ship feels like a PEF, but at T5.

T7 Sinop is cool.  I only had a single game, but again, enough to get the gist.  Guns hit super hard.  Firing angles are great.  Turret traverse is super slow.  Armor is great.  Has an interesting-but-questionable turtleback. 

The ships are fun and engaging, but they play pretty standard. 

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1 hour ago, Ranari said:

T5 Pyotr Velikiy is strong.

Thats an interesting way to say "insanely good." I feel like I need a shower after most of my PV matches. 

1 hour ago, Ranari said:

Armor is off the chain from the front.

Agreed, its great fun to watch that bow plating chew up HE and spit it back out. 
I just love that it can bowtank Yamato shells better than any BB in the game. 

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6 hours ago, Ranari said:

T7 Sinop is cool.  I only had a single game, but again, enough to get the gist.  Guns hit super hard.  Firing angles are great.  Turret traverse is super slow.  Armor is great.  Has an interesting-but-questionable turtleback.

Considering that it's angled at the center to bounce shells INTO the citadel bulkhead, and at the ends hardly angled at all, that is a VERY generous assessment of Sinop's supposed "turtle-back".

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5 hours ago, Landsraad said:

Considering that it's angled at the center to bounce shells INTO the citadel bulkhead, and at the ends hardly angled at all, that is a VERY generous assessment of Sinop's supposed "turtle-back".

Haha!  When I was looking at it through the armor view, the thought came to my mind that maybe that part of the ship was modeled by an intern or something.  It's a weirdly shaped turtleback.  I'd hardly even call it one, just another armor plate.

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5 minutes ago, Ranari said:

Haha!  When I was looking at it through the armor view, the thought came to my mind that maybe that part of the ship was modeled by an intern or something.  It's a weirdly shaped turtleback.  I'd hardly even call it one, just another armor plate.

Methinks that the actual citadel roof IRL is at the seam where the slope meets the bulkhead, and the extra headroom was added for balance reasons. For once, we get a Russian line with "balance" and not just "balans"!

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