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n00bot

CV’s: Nerf Dispersion, Buff Damage

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The new delay for CV’s to launch helps with the spotting issues, but IMO CV’s are still far too strong against destroyers and too weak against battleships and cruisers.

This could be easily fixed by nerfing the dispersion on all drops, so that less ordnance hits DD’s, but the larger BB’s and CA’s still take as many bombs.  Currently drop areas are so tight that a DD takes about the same number of hits as a Battleship, which is dumb.  The same drop which takes 1/2 health from a DD does about 5% to a BB.  If the drop dispersion is nerfed, but per-bomb damage buffed, then DD’s take fewer bombs and BB’s take more, while the overall damage output of carriers is maintained.

Separately, I’d like to see either a major CV heath pool nerf or a major armor nerf.  It’s currently near impossible for a DD to kill a CV, and that was never intended AFAIK. Forget that part... not the point of my post

Edited by n00bot
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4 minutes ago, n00bot said:

Separately, I’d like to see either a major CV heath pool nerf or a major armor nerf.  It’s currently near impossible for a DD to kill a CV, and that was never intended AFAIK.

Shoot the hull instead of the deck. The armor plating is already very thin.

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7 minutes ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

Shoot the hull instead of the deck. The armor plating is already very thin.

Spoken like a true BB player.  Most DD’s have rainbow arcs that make it almost impossible to hit the sides of the ship.  The armored flight deck of T10 CV’s is basically DD-proof. At “long” DD ranges of 10-12k, the shells are falling almost straight down on the target.  Getting closer than that is really hard, because T10 CV’s are also fast, which is again broken and stupid from a game mechanics point of view. The Hakuryu is only 1.5 knots slower than a Gearing (LOL?).  You can’t even catch them.

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1 minute ago, n00bot said:

Spoken like a true BB player.  Most DD’s have rainbow arcs that make it almost impossible to hit the sides of the ship.  The armored flight deck of T10 CV’s is basically DD-proof.

The better CL and DD players I've gone up against figured it out pretty quick, and managed just fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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21 minutes ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

Shoot the hull instead of the deck. The armor plating is already very thin.

yeah... that's totally going to happen when the CV is running away at full speed with its butt facing towards you

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32 minutes ago, n00bot said:

Separately, I’d like to see either a major CV heath pool nerf or a major armor nerf.  It’s currently near impossible for a DD to kill a CV, and that was never intended AFAIK.

Near impossible.... a huge target with no direct control, large turn radius, against torpedo boat? Not like you lack option to sink any flat deck with a DD.

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22 minutes ago, Your_Ship_Is_On_Fire said:

I say just the opposite. DDs are so tiny it takes many bomb drops to hit them even with perfect aim. Dispersion should be lower against smaller targets.

Unless they don't maneuver. It took me every one of my level bomber drops from my Implacable to kill a Benson with 1600 HP, he screwed up on my last drop and was sailing straight when I did that drop.

@NooboT, that huge health pool and speed is most of a CV's defense now and you would realize that if you would actually play them some.

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13 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Unless they don't maneuver. It took me every one of my level bomber drops from my Implacable to kill a Benson with 1600 HP, he screwed up on my last drop and was sailing straight when I did that drop.

@NooboT, that huge health pool and speed is most of a CV's defense now and you would realize that if you would actually play them some.

Huh? When do CV’s die?  They have the highest survival rates in the game by a factor of 3x.

Try killing one in a chasing DD.  Your torps will never reach them.  Their deck is invulnerable to your shells.

 

But anyway, can we focus on the dispersion nerf and damage buff?  The real point of my post is trying to be helpful to CV game balance by having them do more damage to capital ships and less to DD’s.

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15 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

Near impossible.... a huge target with no direct control, large turn radius, against torpedo boat?

Yes.  Have you ever sunk a CV using a destroyer post-rework?  Ever?  They spot you coming and run away, making torps useless. What next?  You just die to planes.

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Honestly, I do believe USN dive bombers need a  larger ellipse than currently. And the RN dive bombers a smaller one due to how the ellipse spreads massively while the bombs are falling. IJN AP bombers are fine as those drop only two or three and are meant to be for pinpoint dropping. I wouldn't mind if Enterprise's AP bombs had a tighter drop ellipse, but given she drops 6 of them, I can sorta understand why not.

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4 minutes ago, n00bot said:

Huh? When do CV’s die?  They have the highest survival rates in the game by a factor of 3x.

Try killing one in a chasing DD.  Your torps will never reach them.  Their deck is invulnerable to your shells.

 

But anyway, can we focus on the dispersion nerf and damage buff?  The real point of my post is trying to be helpful to CV game balance by having them do more damage to capital ships and less to DD’s.

I see, they are supposed to stop so you can kill them. Like I said play them some, get to tier 6 and you will see things from the other side.

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37 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Unless they don't maneuver. It took me every one of my level bomber drops from my Implacable to kill a Benson with 1600 HP, he screwed up on my last drop and was sailing straight when I did that drop.

@NooboT, that huge health pool and speed is most of a CV's defense now and you would realize that if you would actually play them some.

Doesn’t the Implacable have a looong drop time? I suspect a Shokaku or Lex would have wiped that Benson easily a long time ago.

The CV’s main defense is not health pool or armor what are you talking about?  Their defense is sitting behind an island at 30k launching planes from the next map over.

IMO if a DD can get anywhere near such a camping CV, the destroyer should at least have a 50/50 chance to kill the CV.  Currently it’s almost no chance.

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First, i disagree with the " too weak against battleships and cruisers", CVs are strong all around, they can farm almos any ship they want to. 

 

Second, as much as i think CVs are unbalanced, im always against nerfing accuracy, this is like nerfing skill and favouring luck/RNG. This game already ha too much RNG, we dont need more.

 

What we do need is some kind of counterplay against planes that is not a automatic ineffective AA system. 

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4 minutes ago, Xlap said:

First, i disagree with the " too weak against battleships and cruisers", CVs are strong all around, they can farm almos any ship they want to. 

Second, as much as i think CVs are unbalanced, im always against nerfing accuracy, this is like nerfing skill and favouring luck/RNG. This game already ha too much RNG, we dont need more.

What we do need is some kind of counterplay against planes that is not a automatic ineffective AA system. 

 

Yes, even now the RNG can royaly screw you from a perfect drop.

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9 minutes ago, Xlap said:

First, i disagree with the " too weak against battleships and cruisers", CVs are strong all around, they can farm almos any ship they want to. 

 

Second, as much as i think CVs are unbalanced, im always against nerfing accuracy, this is like nerfing skill and favouring luck/RNG. This game already ha too much RNG, we dont need more.

 

What we do need is some kind of counterplay against planes that is not a automatic ineffective AA system. 

For the record I agree with almost all that.  I’m just trying to find easily workable solutions to the obsolescence of destroyers...

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1 hour ago, n00bot said:

Separately, I’d like to see either a major CV heath pool nerf or a major armor nerf.  It’s currently near impossible for a DD to kill a CV, and that was never intended AFAIK.

Err, CV side armor is horrible.

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43 minutes ago, n00bot said:

Yes.  Have you ever sunk a CV using a destroyer post-rework?  Ever?  They spot you coming and run away, making torps useless. What next?  You just die to planes.

Run away from a DD in a giant CV? 

DDs are by far, the most common class that sinks my CVs.  It's like trying to dodge a wall of torps with an office building.

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Folks let's try and remain constructive when responding.  Who else has experienced difficulty as a DD killing CVs?

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Just now, Radar_X said:

Folks let's try and remain constructive when responding.  Who else has experienced difficulty as a DD killing CVs?

 

1 hour ago, n00bot said:

Separately, I’d like to see either a major CV heath pool nerf or a major armor nerf.  It’s currently near impossible for a DD to kill a CV, and that was never intended AFAIK.

have you tried using your dd's torpedos? I have heard that does sufficient damage to the hulls of cvs, to sink them. If that is insufficient, I recommend asking your team mates for assistance. Long range bb/ca fire can help you finish the job.

but, generally speaking, chasing an enemy cv in other than an "end game" or an "opportunity knocks" setting, is a large waste of valuable time and resources.

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Hey, I have a great white board idea that will make CV play much more enjoyable. Let’s add even more RNG into the game and make it so every time you want to drop on someone you have to flip a coin to see if your drop will fall inside or outside the reticle. 

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40 minutes ago, n00bot said:

Doesn’t the Implacable have a looong drop time? I suspect a Shokaku or Lex would have wiped that Benson easily a long time ago.

The CV’s main defense is not health pool or armor what are you talking about?  Their defense is sitting behind an island at 30k launching planes from the next map over.

IMO if a DD can get anywhere near such a camping CV, the destroyer should at least have a 50/50 chance to kill the CV.  Currently it’s almost no chance.

Yes, the Implacable does have a long drop time but you can't switch ships in the middle of a match. You nailed the CV's real defense, not getting spotted because you well know that a spotted CV is at the least taken out of the fight while it deals with its attacker(s) and at worst sunk and taken out of the game. DD's have the best stealth in the game and you cannot sneak up on a CV? If you are spotted when you are still at long range your attack is busted, turn away and come back in a bit or better help your team with other ships, chasing after a CV while you are at long range does not help your team. I will say again, play them some so you can understand their strengths and weaknesses.

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15 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

Folks let's try and remain constructive when responding.  Who else has experienced difficulty as a DD killing CVs?

Let's see I have no trouble killing them in my DD's. If DD players would learn to turn off their AA. And use the Very small Air Detection Range they do have they will live. I am almost never Spotted by CV's when playing in DD's.

 

 

Frosty

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17 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

Who else has experienced difficulty as a DD killing CVs?

That's a really broken overgeneralization. CVs without armored flight decks go down very easily. Then, at T10, CVs suddenly show up with armored decks that bounce Yamato shells. Totally different beast that requires getting much closer so that shells can hit hull instead of deck.

As for increasing dispersion of bombs... that's a fat no, please stop increasing RNG in general at high tiers. Leave that for T4 where it's needed to keep people from seal sniping.

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25 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

Folks let's try and remain constructive when responding.  Who else has experienced difficulty as a DD killing CVs?

Actually that’s really not the point of my post... please forget about the DD chasing thing.  I mostly hate losing 1/2 my DD’s health to one drop of T10 bombs.  Then the planes are getting more passes and your AA is pretty useless, so like all the other threads have said, it makes teams blob up.

 

The point I’m trying to make is that reducing “damage per area” would help DD’s avoid being simply bait.  Yesterday I saw a Shimakaze turn around 180 degrees at the start of the match and proceed to sail along in the middle of the fleet...

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