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Apexalpha

Looking for DD pointers

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I'm falling into the same trap. Put simply, I attempt to cap, smoke up and loose vision on encroaching enemy. They simply advance and force visibility and focus me to death. Of course this happens with DDs that don't have hydro or some supplemental sensor. Allies in range are reticent to throw radar, planes or sonar during these situations. 

Now the question that arises is do I forfeit my role as cap raider until I am guaranteed some sensory back up or is there a way to adjust my play and thus delay my demise?

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49 minutes ago, Apexalpha said:

Now the question that arises is do I forfeit my role as cap raider until I am guaranteed some sensory back up or is there a way to adjust my play and thus delay my demise?

Wait to cap until you have a comfortable level of support, or are confident that a majority of red players will be occupied somewhere else. No rule says you have to cap right away, and no other player has a right to tell you how to play your ship.

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47 minutes ago, Apexalpha said:

Now the question that arises is do I forfeit my role as cap raider until I am guaranteed some sensory back up or is there a way to adjust my play and thus delay my demise?

I usually go in to the very edge of the cap, but don't smoke. I also set up my approach so when I enter that edge, my bow is at worse, 90 degrees away from the enemy. Ideally pointed towards my own team, and/or an island I can make a quick escape behind.

Just as a pure example, I might do this:

cd9VCbK.png

Where the red is my escape vector... but the key part is to already be pointed that way while I'm capping.

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People will tell you to not rush a cap at the start, but I do it all the time. My simple rules are

#1. To never contest a cap that I know I'm not going to take

and

#2. To only contest caps when there is a clear way out in case I get spotted/radared/whatnot.

Both of these require a fairly high degree of game sense, but in general you want to know what can hurt you (everything, but especially light cruisers, gunboat DDs, CVs, fast-firing-high-velocity guns i.e. Chapayev) , what can spot you (DDs that have equal or better concealment, radars, CVs), and what can torp you if/when you smoke up.

When capping it's essential to not get spotted, because that quickly leads to a cap reset. I recommend sitting on the edge of the cap, so if another DD enters you can see that they've entered (started contesting) the cap before you spot each other. I would never smoke unless I've spotted or I have a fairly certain idea where the enemy DD is. You can get away with sitting in smoke if you're angled, but if they catch you with a torp salvo when you're broadside youre pretty f***ed.

I'd bail on a cap when it's being counter-contested and the enemy DD has equal/more support, when something like a radar cruiser is sailing into radar range, or when a bunch of enemy ships show up.

I think the most important thing is you should never have the mindset of "I'm going to take this cap". Rather, it's a lot better to think: "Im going to contest this cap and if it doesn't look like it's going to work out, I'm going to move on and maybe come back later."  Keep a flexible mindset.

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1 hour ago, Apexalpha said:

Now the question that arises is do I forfeit my role as cap raider until I am guaranteed some sensory back up or is there a way to adjust my play and thus delay my demise?

Check out YouTube videos by @Destroyer_KuroshioKai. He stays current on shifting meta for most DD lines. Great information in his videos. 

1 minute ago, Gavroche_ said:

People will tell you to not rush a cap at the start, but I do it all the time. My simple rules are

#1. To never contest a cap that I know I'm not going to take

and

#2. To only contest caps when there is a clear way out in case I get spotted/radared/whatnot.

 

What he said. Don't use smoke to cap early. Only retreat. 

Well, if I am in the red DD, go ahead and sit in the smoke. I promise I won't put torpedoes into it.:cap_haloween:

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16 minutes ago, Gavroche_ said:

People will tell you to not rush a cap at the start, but I do it all the time. My simple rules are

#1. To never contest a cap that I know I'm not going to take

and

#2. To only contest caps when there is a clear way out in case I get spotted/radared/whatnot.

 

 He wrote some great instructions. Frankly, the use of smoke varies huge with the DD you are in.  If you have good concealment then be aware that you are hiding the enemy as much as yourself.

 If you are outspotting something and have support.  Don't feel you even have to fire.  Keep taking the cap and let your team shoot the bad guys. 

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18 minutes ago, Ensign_Pulver_2016 said:

Check out YouTube videos by @Destroyer_KuroshioKai. He stays current on shifting meta for most DD lines. Great information in his videos. 

What he said. Don't use smoke to cap early. Only retreat. 

Well, if I am in the red DD, go ahead and sit in the smoke. I promise I won't put torpedoes into it.:cap_haloween:

Smoke is usually best used to get support ships really close to the cap.  Lay it smart giving the support ship an easy exit once smoke starts wearing off.

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42 minutes ago, Ensign_Pulver_2016 said:

Check out YouTube videos by @Destroyer_KuroshioKai. He stays current on shifting meta for most DD lines. Great information in his videos. 

What he said. Don't use smoke to cap early. Only retreat. 

Well, if I am in the red DD, go ahead and sit in the smoke. I promise I won't put torpedoes into it.:cap_haloween:

Definitely this. Don't sit in your smoke, and if you have to, don't sit broadside and be ready to run. This weekend I got a devastating strike and first blood off a Shiratsuyu who just sat in his smoke on the far side of the circle to contest my capping. I launched the torps about a minute after he smoked up because I was busy chasing off his little friend the T61 (I was in Jervis). He sat in the same place for almost a minute and a half. :Smile_facepalm:

I don't consider myself a DD expert by any means, so take this with a grain of salt, but for me a lot of it comes down to what ship I'm sailing. For example, in my RN DDs I'm much more willing to contest the caps early because I can easily pop smoke and disengage if things get too hot, since I have so many charges to work with over the course of the battle.

Also, as a general rule of thumb, I never sit in my smoke unless someone else is spotting for me. It's too easy for the red DD or radar cruiser to light you up for half the reds to focus on.

Edited by Nevermore135

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2 hours ago, Carrier_Ikoma said:

Just as a pure example, I might do this:

cd9VCbK.png

Good advice,

 

If this is at the start of the game *and there are no CV or you KNOW they are on the other side of the map*, I would argue that going in the reverse direction of the arrow would be better on that 3 cap map. 

Reason is that the enemy has a significantly more challenging time getting torps onto the green line than the red line. 

You can easily torp the red portion from the south without taking too much risk and a radar is negated by moving left to below the left side "Radar-island"

The green portion means that you need to be slightly north of the game between the "little-boat-grabbing-island" and the large one and this is therefore a favorite blind torping location. If you are radared here, you have a very good chance of feeding the "little-boat-grabbing-island"

The gap between the island and the map edge is small enough that unless the enemy is carefull and a bit lucky they are going to be seen there and RPF is going to convince them not to try.

Torping the green line from the center means that you are basically in the center cap and your attention should probably be some place else and you may have Mr oblivious decide to push through the cap from the south and risk a friendly fire incident.

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3 hours ago, Gavroche_ said:

People will tell you to not rush a cap at the start, but I do it all the time. My simple rules are

#1. To never contest a cap that I know I'm not going to take

and

#2. To only contest caps when there is a clear way out in case I get spotted/radared/whatnot.

Both of these require a fairly high degree of game sense, but in general you want to know what can hurt you (everything, but especially light cruisers, gunboat DDs, CVs, fast-firing-high-velocity guns i.e. Chapayev) , what can spot you (DDs that have equal or better concealment, radars, CVs), and what can torp you if/when you smoke up.

When capping it's essential to not get spotted, because that quickly leads to a cap reset. I recommend sitting on the edge of the cap, so if another DD enters you can see that they've entered (started contesting) the cap before you spot each other. I would never smoke unless I've spotted or I have a fairly certain idea where the enemy DD is. You can get away with sitting in smoke if you're angled, but if they catch you with a torp salvo when you're broadside youre pretty f***ed.

I'd bail on a cap when it's being counter-contested and the enemy DD has equal/more support, when something like a radar cruiser is sailing into radar range, or when a bunch of enemy ships show up.

I think the most important thing is you should never have the mindset of "I'm going to take this cap". Rather, it's a lot better to think: "Im going to contest this cap and if it doesn't look like it's going to work out, I'm going to move on and maybe come back later."  Keep a flexible mindset.

 Overall great advice but I'm going to have to disagree on your first rule.

 IMO/E contesting a cap early is as much about gathering information as it is taking the cap. Some teams will go all in as soon as they realize a cap is being contested, others pull back and look for the nearest island. In CV matches, how the CV's react to a cap being taken/contested also gives info. Some CV's will immediately head for you, others will continue eating their chips while looking for the easy targets. That said, my high risk/high reward thinking/tactics makes your 2nd rule my #1.

 

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I can't get an answer. But did with the last update WG delete the torpedo aiming arcs and we have to just sort of do it by guesstimate? 

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On 4/24/2019 at 11:25 PM, Ensign_Pulver_2016 said:

Check out YouTube videos by @Destroyer_KuroshioKai. He stays current on shifting meta for most DD lines. Great information in his videos. 

What he said. Don't use smoke to cap early. Only retreat. 

Well, if I am in the red DD, go ahead and sit in the smoke. I promise I won't put torpedoes into it.:cap_haloween:

@Destroyer_KuroshioKai videos are excellent.  I can't endorse them strongly enough.

Are there any others who do similar videos for BBs, CAs, or CLs?  I am particularly interested in improving my understanding of how to read and make best tactical use of the map/terrain.  I am working my way up the USN lines (DD, CL, CA, and BB) with my primary focus being CAs followed by CLs...though I confess that I find the BBs to be the most forgiving in terms of game play. 


USN BBs are slow, but the relatively long reload time helps push you to check the minimap and improve your overall situational awareness.

Pensacola and Dallas are just so unforgiving when you make mistakes...and the more limited range on Dallas means you have to get closer than you might otherwise prefer.

"Use terrain" is not actually helpful.  "Exploit islands" is a little better...but I would love to find videos that actually break down what the good players look for in terms of terrain and how they assess what the other team is doing or likely to do based on the terrain and the fragmentary spotting info that comes in as the game develops.

I have seen a few videos in which Flamu does this sort of breakdown, and I enjoy (and learn from) replay analysis videos from Mejash as well -- but there isn't a lot of content on ships down at the Tier VI level.  (I am trying to build up my captains to 14-pt before I move into Tier VII (starting with New Orleans)).

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11 hours ago, MN_Nice said:

Are there any others... ?

@Lord_Zath, I believe, has a YouTube channel where he critiques replays of all different types. I haven't watched his since the U.S. cruiser rework. I watched some Tier 9 Baltimore vids. Since I found my affinity for DDs, I have spent less time there.

Kuro mentioned in comments to one of his recent videos that he.plans to do some map strategy videos

 

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9 minutes ago, Ensign_Pulver_2016 said:

@Lord_Zath, I believe, has a YouTube channel where he critiques replays of all different types. I haven't watched his since the U.S. cruiser rework. I watched some Tier 9 Baltimore vids. Since I found my affinity for DDs, I have spent less time there.

Kuro mentioned in comments to one of his recent videos that he.plans to do some map strategy videos

 

Excellent -- I am looking at Lord Zath's YouTube channel right now (thanks you your tip above)!

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o/

Keep in mind no replay critique is the same as YOURS.  SO feel free to send me a few at some point...  NOTE I am out of town now and not sure if I will be able to stream this coming weekend or not...  that said, please send me replays I'd love to help.  E-mail in my signature.

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