Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Spyde

DD in the Current Meta. Adapt or be Fodder ?

17 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,422
[CAFE]
Beta Testers
4,495 posts

Adjust and play different is what we hear.. So lets do that.  So What do i do ?  I make it work.   *Note, i usually only play T10 outside of T8 Prem CV's*                  Current DD PR: 2,595  -  W/R 67.27%

This thread is 100% based on my opinion, and experience. Your mileage may vary.  I figured with all the complaints.. i would throw this out there.

And here is one unpopular opinion of mine,  Majority of the DD players in the game cannot carry a team with or without CV's, so don't expect that unless your Unicum/SuperUni in a DD.  Your goal is to do your part, if you do this.. you will hopefully improve and get there one day, if you potato off to the side alone and a CV finds you.. or into Radar, well, you know whats going to happen. (This happens to all of us, just don't do it every game)

 

If you are getting frustated.. Know the average damage output of the ship your in.. Example - Gearing is ONLY 42k dmg  Getting 42k damage is the simple result of landing 4-5 torps in a match, you wont win every match, DD's will get nuked.. but go into battle with a new outlook.   #1 Did we win ? yes good enough rest doesn't matter.  #2 Did we Lose ?  Did i do above average ?  Yes ? Good enough, i did my part.

 

#1: What to be afraid of.. what is the CV threat.  Know your enemy.  There are MANY MANY potato CV's, knowing their skill greatly changes how you can play, don't be afraid to look them up real quick at start of match if you don't run MM Monitor.

#2: Do not die trying to cap for your team, its better to not have the cap than to be dead if people cannot move up to support you. - If you know your opponets skill in a CV, you know how far out you can go if you want to attempt to make a play.

#3: Save all the HP you can, do not get yourself into a gunfight in the first few min of match, losing half your HP, if you want to be Viable late game, you have to Save all you can.  Each game set yourself a Goal: I want to be above X% HP at the X:Time mark if you think your being to aggressive.

#4: Most likely the most important step.   Spacing.. If you find yourself 12-15km from a friendly ship, and your facing a good CV player, and said CV player wants you dead..   Your going to get hit hard...  If you do get stuck in this situation.. Slow down.. Smoke.. adjust in smoke.. and hope he leaves ( Most will as they want to go farm damage, but don't rely on this either.. as your already in a bad spot - and will most likely go drop on something else and come right back for you.  Congrats.. You Delayed your Death)   ***CV Unicums, Stay within 6-7km of friendly ships(Keep a close eye out for planes)..  Vs Average - 7-8km -  Vs a Bad  8-10km    ***Make this your Operating Zones***

#5: Operating outside of the "Safe Zone"   You must have smoke up, you must keep a close eye on Enemy Planes, you must have an escape route to head back to a friendly ship for cover.  If a CV finds you running full speed.. you are getting hit.. You cannot stop in smoke in time to avoid this Damage.

#6 If your unsure of things.. Don't be afraid to avoid open water caps where friendly ships cant get near.

MIDWAY  - Biggest DD threat

Dive Bombers  #1 DD killer right here    

Rocket planes : They can hit hard, but if you aren't off alone, multi strikes normally wont be a thing.

Torp planes: Very little threat, these are easy to avoid

Hakuryu - Meh vs DD's - Watch the rockets!

Dive Bombers No Threat, you can pretty much ignore these.  Let them drop on you all day and lulz at them for doing it.

Rocket planes : They can hit hard, but if you aren't off alone, multi strikes normally wont be a thing.

Torp planes: Very little threat, these are easy to avoid

 

Audacious - Meh vs DD's - Watch the rockets!

Bombers  Mild Threat, they have a slow drop time and you should take minimal damage from this.

Rocket planes : They can hit hard, but if you aren't off alone, multi strikes normally wont be a thing.

Torp planes: Very little threat, these are easy to avoid

 

General

Leave AA off, do not turn AA on until your are spotted by the CV planes, Turn AA off as soon as the planes pass so your detection drops.  - If vs Rocket planes.. Turn toward them.  hope they dont swing out far to get a long run for attack, or hug up to an AA ship if you can.

  DD's that are in position for rocket planes to strike them over and over.. Deserve it.

Midway Dive bombers..   watch the map...know what planes the enemy CV has out, know where those planes are at.    If a CV is sending planes to other side of map, you can give yourself more room to work with for a limited time.

You should NEVER be caught off guard by radar now, CV's spot the crap out of Cruisers.   You should have your mini map to see last spotted location.  Use this for your own benefit.

Smoke is used in 2 Ways. 

       Defense.   You should not need smoke vs another DD in most cases, dont get stuck nose in.. don't shoot, drop out of detection and go on if your out gunned (Pending what DD.. Haragumo can kill very fast)  Save for CV's

       Offense.  When timer is up.. better be near  that Safe AA zone.

Do not Drive full speed if a CV is near you, it takes time to slow down when you start dropping smoke, you need to be able to get to 1/4 speed fast so your not spotted while your moving/dropping smoke

T1 DD's 

Daring: Be Careful capping..  Your smoke will not last for the duration it takes to cap... If your out of support range  ONLY smoke if the CV comes for you, most CV's wont set around waiting for smoke to leave if your halfway within range of the fleet.    With that, What makes me put Daring at T1 when it can't cap as good as the other DD's ?  Simpy..  7x Smokes.. and its Guns/Heal.. Daring can stop and smoke if a CV is coming.. and then move on and have smoke ready again shortly after, along with its guns can do Damage fast.   This is My 2nd Fav DD at T10 for Randoms.

Groz : Strong AA, heal, Good Smoke, Great Guns.    As you take Damage, you lose AA power fast, beware of this.  This ship works great as an all round contender.   Just stick with the basics of being in a CV match.  The guns allow you to do damage at a distance with good arcs that some of the other DD's do not get.

Haragumo: its AA feels very strong, but its big and it takes damage easy.. with that.. treat it as a mini Wooster, you can set up in smoke or at an island and farm all day.   Torps are also safe to use is a plus.   Easy to use this ship near your fleet and still farm just fine. Wait to cap after everyone has engaged.

Shimakaze - Shima!  I'll probly be giving crap for putting this here, but this is still my go to DD.  Its fast, it has good smoke, and its torps still let it shine.  You know how people say death ball or die to a CV ?  Shima breaks the death ball.  12km Torps are the go to choice, scoot to side with its speed (Keep an eye on those CV planes) dump 15 torps and get back and wait for reload while you do your normal job. (My go to DD for all occasions)

 

T2 DD's 

Gearing - Takes Big Damage from CV's Very easy to drop on due to size, but Gearing has 16.5km Torps.. Leave them at this - It also has very long smoke to move up and use its Guns ( Once again.. Watch Radar range.. and range between you and fleet in case you need to fall back fast)   Gearing is T2 due to how much damage it takes, if your grouped with a Cruiser and work together with Smoke, this ship instantly Jumps to T1.   

You are allowed to Cap alot Safer than T3 DD's due to its massive smoke duration.   You can watch for last CV strike locations you can get an idea how long it will take his planes to get to you.. Move up into cap and wait... DO NOT SMOKE unless you see a CV coming, or you get spotted.  Move at 1/4 speed and slowly drop a decent chunk of smoke, then move backwards in it some and angle toward last known enemy locations incase a DD torps. 

 

T3 DD

Yueyang   At this point.. its a weak gearing.. I have little to no reason to bring this ship out.   Radar is meh now that you really need smoke to survive.

Khab - Betwen its heal and range, it can set there near friendly ships and gun away as it always has.   But of course... stay near friendly ships   Being unable to properly cap is why i dumped this ship to T3, your better off playing a cruiser or haragumo for what this ship brings.  

Z-52 - There are many issues with the Current Z-52, Its unable to use its strength as an advantage (Big Time Hydro) as the torps are low range.  Between Planes and Radar, 10.5km Torps are rough when the guns dont do it justice with its smoke duration.

 

 

 

  • Cool 10
  • Angry 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
501
[ANZ4C]
Beta Testers
1,190 posts

speaking as a middling skill rate DD main..... what he said.

great post!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,511
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
3,156 posts
11,135 battles

Good post, +1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,486
[CUTER]
Members
2,858 posts
12,043 battles
20 minutes ago, Spyde said:

Adjust and play different is what we hear.. So lets do that.  So What do i do ?  I make it work.   *Note, i usually only play T10 outside of T8 Prem CV's*                  Current DD PR: 2,595  -  W/R 67.27%

This thread is 100% based on my opinion, and experience. Your mileage may vary.  I figured with all the complaints.. i would throw this out there.

And here is one unpopular opinion of mine,  Majority of the DD players in the game cannot carry a team with or without CV's, so don't expect that unless your Unicum/SuperUni in a DD.  Your goal is to do your part, if you do this.. you will hopefully improve and get there one day, if you potato off to the side alone and a CV finds you.. or into Radar, well, you know whats going to happen. (This happens to all of us, just don't do it every game)

 

If you are getting frustated.. Know the average damage output of the ship your in.. Example - Gearing is ONLY 42k dmg  Getting 42k damage is the simple result of landing 4-5 torps in a match, you wont win every match, DD's will get nuked.. but go into battle with a new outlook.   #1 Did we win ? yes good enough rest doesn't matter.  #2 Did we Lose ?  Did i do above average ?  Yes ? Good enough, i did my part.

 

#1: What to be afraid of.. what is the CV threat.  Know your enemy.  There are MANY MANY potato CV's, knowing their skill greatly changes how you can play, don't be afraid to look them up real quick at start of match if you don't run MM Monitor.

#2: Do not die trying to cap for your team, its better to not have the cap than to be dead if people cannot move up to support you. - If you know your opponets skill in a CV, you know how far out you can go if you want to attempt to make a play.

#3: Save all the HP you can, do not get yourself into a gunfight in the first few min of match, losing half your HP, if you want to be Viable late game, you have to Save all you can.  Each game set yourself a Goal: I want to be above X% HP at the X:Time mark if you think your being to aggressive.

#4: Most likely the most important step.   Spacing.. If you find yourself 12-15km from a friendly ship, and your facing a good CV player, and said CV player wants you dead..   Your going to get hit hard...  If you do get stuck in this situation.. Slow down.. Smoke.. adjust in smoke.. and hope he leaves ( Most will as they want to go farm damage, but don't rely on this either.. as your already in a bad spot - and will most likely go drop on something else and come right back for you.  Congrats.. You Delayed your Death)   ***CV Unicums, Stay within 6-7km of friendly ships(Keep a close eye out for planes)..  Vs Average - 7-8km -  Vs a Bad  8-10km    ***Make this your Operating Zones***

#5: Operating outside of the "Safe Zone"   You must have smoke up, you must keep a close eye on Enemy Planes, you must have an escape route to head back to a friendly ship for cover.  If a CV finds you running full speed.. you are getting hit.. You cannot stop in smoke in time to avoid this Damage.

#6 If your unsure of things.. Don't be afraid to avoid open water caps where friendly ships cant get near.

MIDWAY  - Biggest DD threat

Dive Bombers  #1 DD killer right here    

Rocket planes : They can hit hard, but if you aren't off alone, multi strikes normally wont be a thing.

Torp planes: Very little threat, these are easy to avoid

Hakuryu - Meh vs DD's - Watch the rockets!

Dive Bombers No Threat, you can pretty much ignore these.  Let them drop on you all day and lulz at them for doing it.

Rocket planes : They can hit hard, but if you aren't off alone, multi strikes normally wont be a thing.

Torp planes: Very little threat, these are easy to avoid

 

Audacious - Meh vs DD's - Watch the rockets!

Bombers  Mild Threat, they have a slow drop time and you should take minimal damage from this.

Rocket planes : They can hit hard, but if you aren't off alone, multi strikes normally wont be a thing.

Torp planes: Very little threat, these are easy to avoid

 

General

Leave AA off, do not turn AA on until your are spotted by the CV planes, Turn AA off as soon as the planes pass so your detection drops.  - If vs Rocket planes.. Turn toward them.  hope they dont swing out far to get a long run for attack, or hug up to an AA ship if you can.

  DD's that are in position for rocket planes to strike them over and over.. Deserve it.

Midway Dive bombers..   watch the map...know what planes the enemy CV has out, know where those planes are at.    If a CV is sending planes to other side of map, you can give yourself more room to work with for a limited time.

You should NEVER be caught off guard by radar now, CV's spot the crap out of Cruisers.   You should have your mini map to see last spotted location.  Use this for your own benefit.

Smoke is used in 2 Ways. 

       Defense.   You should not need smoke vs another DD in most cases, dont get stuck nose in.. don't shoot, drop out of detection and go on if your out gunned (Pending what DD.. Haragumo can kill very fast)  Save for CV's

       Offense.  When timer is up.. better be near  that Safe AA zone.

Do not Drive full speed if a CV is near you, it takes time to slow down when you start dropping smoke, you need to be able to get to 1/4 speed fast so your not spotted while your moving/dropping smoke

T1 DD's 

Daring: Be Careful capping..  Your smoke will not last for the duration it takes to cap... If your out of support range  ONLY smoke if the CV comes for you, most CV's wont set around waiting for smoke to leave if your halfway within range of the fleet.    With that, What makes me put Daring at T1 when it can't cap as good as the other DD's ?  Simpy..  7x Smokes.. and its Guns/Heal.. Daring can stop and smoke if a CV is coming.. and then move on and have smoke ready again shortly after, along with its guns can do Damage fast.   This is My 2nd Fav DD at T10 for Randoms.

Groz : Strong AA, heal, Good Smoke, Great Guns.    As you take Damage, you lose AA power fast, beware of this.  This ship works great as an all round contender.   Just stick with the basics of being in a CV match.  The guns allow you to do damage at a distance with good arcs that some of the other DD's do not get.

Haragumo: its AA feels very strong, but its big and it takes damage easy.. with that.. treat it as a mini Wooster, you can set up in smoke or at an island and farm all day.   Torps are also safe to use is a plus.   Easy to use this ship near your fleet and still farm just fine. Wait to cap after everyone has engaged.

Shimakaze - Shima!  I'll probly be giving crap for putting this here, but this is still my go to DD.  Its fast, it has good smoke, and its torps still let it shine.  You know how people say death ball or die to a CV ?  Shima breaks the death ball.  12km Torps are the go to choice, scoot to side with its speed (Keep an eye on those CV planes) dump 15 torps and get back and wait for reload while you do your normal job. (My go to DD for all occasions)

 

T2 DD's 

Gearing - Takes Big Damage from CV's Very easy to drop on due to size, but Gearing has 16.5km Torps.. Leave them at this - It also has very long smoke to move up and use its Guns ( Once again.. Watch Radar range.. and range between you and fleet in case you need to fall back fast)   Gearing is T2 due to how much damage it takes, if your grouped with a Cruiser and work together with Smoke, this ship instantly Jumps to T1.   

You are allowed to Cap alot Safer than T3 DD's due to its massive smoke duration.   You can watch for last CV strike locations you can get an idea how long it will take his planes to get to you.. Move up into cap and wait... DO NOT SMOKE unless you see a CV coming, or you get spotted.  Move at 1/4 speed and slowly drop a decent chunk of smoke, then move backwards in it some and angle toward last known enemy locations incase a DD torps. 

 

T3 DD

Yueyang   At this point.. its a weak gearing.. I have little to no reason to bring this ship out.   Radar is meh now that you really need smoke to survive.

Khab - Betwen its heal and range, it can set there near friendly ships and gun away as it always has.   But of course... stay near friendly ships   Being unable to properly cap is why i dumped this ship to T3, your better off playing a cruiser or haragumo for what this ship brings.  

Z-52 - There are many issues with the Current Z-52, Its unable to use its strength as an advantage (Big Time Hydro) as the torps are low range.  Between Planes and Radar, 10.5km Torps are rough when the guns dont do it justice with its smoke duration.

 

 

 

You hit a lot of it on the head.  DD players need to adjust their positioning, watch the mini map more to see when they can come out a little more to play.  I've been putting up a lot of videos going over how a DD can survive in the current meta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,997
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
7,908 posts
12,228 battles

Quite what you're supposed to do in Standard Battle is a bit beyond me. Without caps to realistically fight over (and given CV get the most cap resets/game) I don't really see the point of a destroyer in that game mode.

 

It is possible to adapt to the carrier abundance, but the adaptation tends to involve driving your destroyer without any verve, panache or dash, and if you're reduced to huddling by a cruiser waiting for the end, you might as well drive a cruiser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,127
[SALVO]
Members
21,703 posts
22,016 battles
2 minutes ago, mofton said:

Quite what you're supposed to do in Standard Battle is a bit beyond me. Without caps to realistically fight over (and given CV get the most cap resets/game) I don't really see the point of a destroyer in that game mode.

It is possible to adapt to the carrier abundance, but the adaptation tends to involve driving your destroyer without any verve, panache or dash, and if you're reduced to huddling by a cruiser waiting for the end, you might as well drive a cruiser.

 Come on, mofton.  I know that you're smarter than this.  What you do as a DD in a Standard battle is screen your team, spotting both enemy ships and incoming enemy torpedoes, trying to find enemy DDs to protect your team's heavies, as well as doing damage whenever the opportunity presents itself.

As for carriers, it depends on whether you're looking at one CV per team or 2.  (I've never been in a 3 CV per team battle, so they seem like unicorns to me.)  If there's only 1 CV per team, just watch which side of the map the enemy CV is working.  When he's working the other side, you have be more aggressive.  But when he's operating your side of the map, it's time to be more cautious.  This isn't exactly rocket science.


But if you want verve, panache, or dash (don't think I've ever seen DD play described with those words), then maybe you should be thinking about a lot more than just carriers.  What about radar?  What about a number of captain skills?  What about the free Situational Awareness skill?  Frankly, the devs have done a lot more to nerf "verve, panache, and dash" with those other things than with carriers!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
487
[O7]
[O7]
Beta Testers
1,566 posts
9,367 battles

I like how everyone's advice to playing DD in the new CV meta is to just stay near AA cruisers. Like that's nice and all but that's not going to let me do anything fun, might as well be the AA cruiser at that point.

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,997
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
7,908 posts
12,228 battles
27 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Come on, mofton.  I know that you're smarter than this.  What you do as a DD in a Standard battle is screen your team, spotting both enemy ships and incoming enemy torpedoes, trying to find enemy DDs to protect your team's heavies, as well as doing damage whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Ah, be about as valuable as a hydro consumable. I will manage my expectations accordingly.

Carriers will sometimes hang out on one side, but they can always redeploy at >150kt flying over terrain, so I rarely bank on it. WG's nerfing AA ranges into the floor was also not desperately helpful for trying to range at least a bit forward. Cautious now means effectively do nothing, and radar is bad too - but one battle at a time. Part of the problem with radar is simple overabundance, 2 radar trying to deal with 4 destroyers isn't so bad. 4 radar and 1 destroyer is problematic. WG very stupidly released a whole string of premium cruisers with radar recently, Azuma felt like the first one without it in about 9 months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,422
[CAFE]
Beta Testers
4,495 posts
48 minutes ago, Kevik70 said:

I like how everyone's advice to playing DD in the new CV meta is to just stay near AA cruisers. Like that's nice and all but that's not going to let me do anything fun, might as well be the AA cruiser at that point.

That is 100% Legit.  DD's in randoms are not what they used to be.. and They need some help vs HE Dive Bombers.

 

but sadly as hard as a CV can hit a DD that gets off to this side.  What choice is there besides adapt or don't play a DD ?   With adjustments ive been able to cap as needed and get my damage out as needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
94
[ARMDG]
[ARMDG]
Members
767 posts
3,287 battles

Hmm... I'm going to give Lightning another spin and try to improve my positioning.

Before, I had trouble in my Lightning because my smoke is not long enough to outlast their constant-spotting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,422
[CAFE]
Beta Testers
4,495 posts

5 Games in shima tonight 4/5 games had CV.  Solo Que

 

image.png.e4dcda60305d3c053cca2ede49a489ce.png

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
900 posts
3,912 battles

@Spyde great post OP, great guide and how to instructional for anyone looking to get a feel for a how to DD in the post rework doldrums we're living in.  Winning great, success great! The new playstyle is just not fun though.  Just not aggressive and dangerous which is probably what made a lot of us that have been playing for years appeal to DD in the first place.   

Now write me a guide on how I enjoy it.  I'll give you all my +1s.  BEST OF LUCK!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,024
[CAFE]
Members
1,726 posts
12,446 battles

Bleh now I need to write a CV guide to help make DD useless again :cap_horn:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,422
[CAFE]
Beta Testers
4,495 posts
51 minutes ago, JustAdapt said:

Bleh now I need to write a CV guide to help make DD useless again :cap_horn:

Shh, dont tell them vs the really good ones.. resistance is futile!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
226
[DENY]
Members
446 posts
8,323 battles

I'll ad to the General Rules, use your AA as an ambush if you have good AA.

Flack is DEADLY, but easy to dodge when fired from a CV target. Flack that is behind the line of sight of a formation of planes is very hard to dodge. There will often be times where you are in flack range but unspotted and the CV is making an attack at another ship, if you can get long range Flack shots off you can do a ton of damage to those planes. All you have to do is turn off AA to go back to dark. If you couple this with having your AA at the right sector, you can greatly help reduce the effectiveness of the enemy CV.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×