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kgh52

A simple way to improve the game overall

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Remove MM monitor. It is a cheat. It allows the enemy to target players rather than ships. This is a huge advantage to the better player and a detriment to new players.  MM monitoring mods should be banned for this reason alone.

Another reason is MM monitors are a course of negativity with claims of unfair matches. It is MM monitors that make the matches unfair.

The game & players would be better off without MM monitor

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Matchmaking Monitor is the perfect add-on for the person who enjoys being miserable.  If you take this tool away from them, I shudder to think what new measures they'll come up with to accomplish that goal.

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While I really agree with you and wish we could indeed remove this absolutely cancerous add-on, it does not violate any rules as it's pulling from public data and does not give an undue advantage in battle other than giving fuel to people in chat when they start losing and look for people to blame other than themselves.

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I think it's fine... if people want to make their own lives miserable, it's their choice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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39 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

Remove MM monitor. It is a cheat. It allows the enemy to target players rather than ships. This is a huge advantage to the better player and a detriment to new players.  MM monitoring mods should be banned for this reason alone.

Another reason is MM monitors are a course of negativity with claims of unfair matches. It is MM monitors that make the matches unfair.

The game & players would be better off without MM monitor

MMM doesnt offer an advantage to better players. The reality is, despite it being more advantageous to focus lesser skilled players first, randos are much more likely to target purples and dark purples. So no, MMM does not benefit better players, it is a huge detriment really.

That doesnt mean MMM benefits newer players either, cause you are absolutely right on the second point. All it does is create toxicity.

 

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42 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

Remove MM monitor. It is a cheat. It allows the enemy to target players rather than ships. This is a huge advantage to the better player and a detriment to new players.  MM monitoring mods should be banned for this reason alone.

Another reason is MM monitors are a course of negativity with claims of unfair matches. It is MM monitors that make the matches unfair.

The game & players would be better off without MM monitor

What kind of logic is that? If team make up is unfair, it's unfair. Being ignorant doesn't make it fair.

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Anyone with MMM has a huge self confidence problem in life and I wouldn't want to take that away from them.  I doubt there are really enough people using it that it is really causing that much of a ripple honestly.  Let those few be miserable.

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And if you need an excuse for your (or your team's) poor performance, MMM is not even in the top 10 candidates.

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28 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

While I really agree with you and wish we could indeed remove this absolutely cancerous add-on, it does not violate any rules as it's pulling from public data and does not give an undue advantage in battle other than giving fuel to people in chat when they start losing and look for people to blame other than themselves.

A better solution is to remove the API links.  People can look up their own stats, and could send or post links for anyone if they want to brag about their stats, but they should get away from the whole 'posting stats' thing for all.   Perhaps leave the API up for aggregate (non-individual) data to see trends and the big picture, but, I think they should just remove the individual data from the anonymous API.

 

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I thought this was some in depth thread about "way to improve the game overall". Alas, I've been foiled once more...

 

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12 minutes ago, LowSpeed_US said:

I thought this was some in depth thread about "way to improve the game overall". Alas, I've been foiled once more...

Same lol. I thought he was going to say a "no CV button" or something. :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by JBR40

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1 minute ago, JBR40 said:

Same lol. I thought he was going to say a "no CV button" or something. :Smile_teethhappy:

Don't worry, I was going to mention it if no one else did.  :P

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1 hour ago, kgh52 said:

Remove MM monitor. It is a cheat. It allows the enemy to target players rather than ships. This is a huge advantage to the better player and a detriment to new players.  MM monitoring mods should be banned for this reason alone.

Another reason is MM monitors are a course of negativity with claims of unfair matches. It is MM monitors that make the matches unfair.

The game & players would be better off without MM monitor

It is NOT a cheat.  It provides nothing but information that could be had by looking players up directly.  MMM only saves you a little time and effort.  For what it's worth, I don't use it, mostly because I can't be bothered to DL and install it.

Also, MMM doesn't make matches unfair.  Like @chewonit said, if the teams are not evenly balanced talent-wise, MMM isn't responsible for the mismatch, and claiming otherwise is truly ignorant.

 

41 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

A better solution is to remove the API links.  People can look up their own stats, and could send or post links for anyone if they want to brag about their stats, but they should get away from the whole 'posting stats' thing for all.   Perhaps leave the API up for aggregate (non-individual) data to see trends and the big picture, but, I think they should just remove the individual data from the anonymous API.

 

Indeed, mav.  You can look up people's stats without using MMM.  If by some odd chance, WG wanted to make doing so against the rules, it is entirely within their control to prevent it …  sort of.  Like you say, they could remove the API links.  HOWEVER, even this wouldn't make the data that those 3rd party sites have downloaded go away.  So, what could WG do about people who don't have MMM installed and are looking up stats on a 3rd party stats site?  Check out their browser histories?  Frankly, that seems to me to be of very questionable legality.

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31 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Indeed, mav.  You can look up people's stats without using MMM.  If by some odd chance, WG wanted to make doing so against the rules, it is entirely within their control to prevent it …  sort of.  Like you say, they could remove the API links.  HOWEVER, even this wouldn't make the data that those 3rd party sites have downloaded go away.  So, what could WG do about people who don't have MMM installed and are looking up stats on a 3rd party stats site?  Check out their browser histories?  Frankly, that seems to me to be of very questionable legality.

Well, once the API links to individual data are gone, then the data that IS out there has a shelf life, and it's not getting any newer or refreshed.  It'll fade away on its own and become less relevant over time.

 

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Look I don't really need MMM to see who's bad at the game or not. Just watching people's positioning on the mini-map is usually more than enough. Oh look this Jean Bart is off the map, 20km+ from the fight and is still at full hp 15 minutes into the game. Probably not very good,  quick search using WoWs Stats and oh look at that, that's a really nice 44% WR you got there, "didn't see that coming" :Smile_smile:. Don't use MMM personally but if people seriously  think removing it is going to make them suck less (or at least not called out for sucking) then they are living in a world of fantasy. 

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3 hours ago, KaptainKaybe said:

While I really agree with you and wish we could indeed remove this absolutely cancerous add-on, it does not violate any rules as it's pulling from public data and does not give an undue advantage in battle other than giving fuel to people in chat when they start losing and look for people to blame other than themselves.

At this time MM monitors do comply with WG's rules & regulations. I am asking for WG to change and ban MM monitors.

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MMM is not cheating and the only way to 'ban' it would also prevent all other 3rd party sites from keeping stats.  There is no effective way to ban software not developed by WG.

Edited by CylonRed

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I can see both sides of this in actuality...but probably not for the reasons originally expected.

On the one hand the argument for banning it...nothing quite like being in a game for 10 seconds and seeing someone say this is a loss or this is a team of ----ers...at about that point you're either already tired of the game and want it to be over so you can move on to a game that isn't going to be a saltfest, or just waiting to see who sinks them so you can give that person a +1, lol.

Argument against banning it...eh, I'll be honest, I've just never liked the argument of "Yes, it complies with the rules, so change the rules so that it doesn't comply with them"..it just strikes me too much as yes it's perfectly fine but I don't like it, so make it go away...this isn't meant as a personal attack on the OP, and I hope it isn't taken that way.

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Ok... gather your stones, pick your pitch forks and lighten up your torches! The devil's advocate is here.

 

I use MMM in every PvP game I enter and I follow a check-up list:

- how unbalanced are the teams. This gives me an idea if I should play defensively or if I can afford to be a bit more cheeky in the early stages of the match;
- who are the experienced players in my team (100+ matches in that specific ship) and also have decent stats (no need to unicum level stats, though). I usually stay closer to those players, try to protect them when playing a CV etc.;
- who are the experienced players in the other team with decent stats (same criteria as above). Those are the ones I especially take care not to expose broadside, try to keep some distance in the early stages of the match;
- who are the helpless potatoes in my team (300+ matches and 37% WR in that specific ship). These are helpful as "meat shield" or "living bait". As this player advances, the enemy team usually gives away their position (especially DDs that open fire after having launched their torpedoes). Or, alternatively, while he gets focused down, I snipe from distance;
- when playing in lower tiers, try to find the seal clubbers (there's always a Clemson/Kamikaze with 500+ matches, 67% WR and 80k avg. damage) in the enmy team. If there's one, I denounce him to both teams (not that it really helps... but sometimes that taunts him to go after me, which is exactly my intention).

 

Unlike common belief, people don't go after "bad players". They usually get mauled pretty soon by their own mistakes.

Unlike common belief, MMM won't make your stats improve effortless.

Unlike common belief, MMM won't predict the outcome of the match.

Unlike other MM users, I don't go on "stat shaming". But if one whines too much in chat about the way the team can't avoid defeat, I might remember this one that one's contribution wasn't exactly brilliant either. Usually, whiners are around "average" and who are too proud to admit mistakes or too desperate with their stats and want to improve those at the expense of sheer dumb luck instead of self-improvement.

Those who have MMM to "stats shame" others are dishonest gamblers. Every match is a gamble and no one will win always. MMM won't change this and blaming others for your disgrace just turns that person into a "bad looser". That is not a flaw in MMM, but a flaw of character in that player. As the old Romans used to say, abusus non tollit usus - misuse of something is no argument against proper use.

Like most players that use MMM, it's a tool for self-improvement and not another way to pester other players. It helps me asses both teams and if I need to review my objectives every new match. Considering what MMM shows me, I have a fair idea if that objective is feasible or if I should rethink my objective. MMM helps me choose which other players I could rely on (at least a little bit).  Actually, the gratetes asset of MMM is to hint which player in your team you can rely on (assuming you're not in a division).

Since I started using MMM in every match, my stats have shown improvement. Yes, I care for my stats and that's my problem, not yours (if the fact that I care for my stats annoys someone, that's one's own problem). Improving stats is a slow, silent and lonesome process (ok, not that lonesome, occasionally I can count on a helping hand of a division).

 

8 hours ago, kgh52 said:

huge advantage to the better player and a detriment to new players

I have to disagree. I have had MMM lying around in my pc for several months. I first heard of it, I had less than 500 matches. I had about 800 matches when I first installed it. But I only started using it consistently about a couple months ago. It's a tool free for every one, even new players. Second, I've seen quite often a total average player carry the game in spite of the presence of unicums in the match. Your argument indicates you don't run MMM and I invite you to try it and watch what MMM shows you. You'll see that players are targeted for exposing or over-extending themselves or also by yoloing in the wrong moment and not for having bad stats in MMM.

8 hours ago, kgh52 said:

MM monitors are a course of negativity with claims of unfair matches

True. Some people will use MMM to spread toxicity in the chat. But we don't ban cars because of reckless drivers. Why should we ban MMM for the misuse by some players? We could even ban MMM, but I believe those players will find another way to spread their toxicity.

It's true that MMM sometimes shows an unfair lineup. Keep in mind that, when you hit "Battle", you gamble. Sometimes your get a good team, sometimes you get balanced teams, sometimes you get a big "F*ck U!" Should MM consider other criteria that just a simplistic lineup of equal classes and tiers? Yes. Should it consider skill? No. Least of all WR. This is a hotly debated issue and WG keeps a dubious position by acknowledging that MM needs improvement, but won't change anything because queue time could increase too much (still trying to figure out what "too much" means for WG).

7 hours ago, chewonit said:

And if you need an excuse for your (or your team's) poor performance, MMM is not even in the top 10 candidates.

I would say, MMM would come as 25th candidate; just behind all 24 players involved in that game.

 

6 hours ago, Kevik70 said:

if people seriously  think removing it is going to make them suck less (or at least not called out for sucking) then they are living in a world of fantasy. 

Exactly. If on one side we have players that use MMM to blame other for their misery, on the extreme opposite side we have players that really suck, but don't want to be called out for sucking and don't really care for improvement. If they don't care for improvement, in the first place, why being called out annoys them so much? Too cool to learn something from playing that ship for the 356th time and still sailing in a straight line...?

 

 

Now I'll just kite away while shells fall left and right (hopefully).

Edited by Brooklin82

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I have to disagree. I have had MMM lying around in my pc for several months. I first heard of it, I had less than 500 matches. I had about 800 matches when I first installed it. But I only started using it consistently about a couple months ago. It's a tool free for every one, even new players. Second, I've seen quite often a total average player carry the game in spite of the presence of unicums in the match. Your argument indicates you don't run MMM and I invite you to try it and watch what MMM shows you. You'll see that players are targeted for exposing or over-extending themselves or also by yoloing in the wrong moment and not for having bad stats in MMM.

In this forum people has said they use MMM to target players with poor stats. I did not just dream this up.

Screwing up at the wrong time does get you sunk. Even unicums screw up.

Quote

Don't use MMM personally but if people seriously  think removing it is going to make them suck less (or at least not called out for sucking) then they are living in a world of fantasy.

Yes, thinking it would make one play better is an illusion. I did not imply or even come close to hinting such a silly claim. However targeting players who's stats indicates they perform poorly rather from the get-go does increase the chances they will be sunk sooner than normal.

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4 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

In this forum people has said they use MMM to target players with poor stats. I did not just dream this up.

Did they? Or did they say they prioritize their targets?

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24 minutes ago, Sweaty_Anime_Girls said:

Hey, spelling error!

smiple.png

OOPS!

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4 minutes ago, Octavian_of_Roma said:

Did they? Or did they say they prioritize their targets?

Yes, they did.

However, "prioritizing targets" is almost the very same thing.

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6 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

However, "prioritizing targets" is almost the very same thing.

Not to me. 2 targets present themselves, and about equal position. Ill take out the stronger one first. The weaker one is less a threat.

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