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MEANN

DD grinding pain and what can we do? Open to thoughts

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I just skipped most of the Russian dd's due to suffering of cv focus and lack of any aa to speak of. I got the T9 today and was excited! Well I upgraded to full aa captain 16 points only missing aft. Launched into my first game! Middway, well 3 minutes into the game i was finally close enough to shoot at a cruiser.....14 hits, then i was finished off by the same cv. It took him all of his rocket attacked to leave me with 300 health. I did however kill one of his planes. Only 1 bomber run was the end. So 117 xp of 260k that I need. See my problem.

At this rate the only option is play a different boat to farm free xp. 

spend money to convert xp

But to me this seems to ruin the experience of learning a ship line. I want to play dds and I know that the Grozi is the only T10 that is playable in randoms. I have played my Gearing and it is ok, but almost all of the Gun boat dds will kill me. Daring Khab, ect. 

The cv's are here and I know they are not going away. But how do you play a ship line if you cant survive the first 3 minutes?

if you dont skip the 5 to 9 you are almost always going to have 2 cvs. Not that they would both focus the one or maybe 2 dds!

Play Co -Op? 

I am open to thoughts and ideas.

I learned the Shimma from playing the entire line. It was very useful in understanding how to play the boats. That was of course pre cv rework. 

We need to make the grind possible for every ship type. not just aa boats. 

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I think you're exaggerating the difficulty in playing DDs right now.  It's not impossible to do well in them - I disagree with your assessment that "Groz is the only T10 that is playable".

Throwing a lot of free xp at the lines is depriving yourself of the opportunity to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the line as you go.  I would suggest picking whatever line is most interesting to you, and going through it gradually, not moving from one tier to the next until you feel comfortable in it.

The groz line is particularly weird because it keeps alternating between torp ninjas and high speed bad detection run-and-gunners.

If you're feeling particularly abused by CVs I would recommend working on the british or pan-asian lines.  Both of those lines offer considerable quantities of the smoke generator consumable, which is handy if you wind up facing a carrier that has it in for you.

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Tough spot, no sugar coating how tough it is for dd's.  

Wish I had an answer, I got through all the dd lines before the CV changes,  I guess the current environment will make you an even better dd player....not that that was the answer you were looking for.

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7 minutes ago, Sweetsie said:

Tough spot, no sugar coating how tough it is for dd's.  

Wish I had an answer, I got through all the dd lines before the CV changes,  I guess the current environment will make you an even better dd player....not that that was the answer you were looking for.

True, but unlike a lot of the haters, apparently, I also played lots of carriers, (though not really that well,) under RTS.

I didn’t have trouble getting bothered by RTS carriers, and I don’t have trouble with them now. Even in four carrier games, I don’t have an issue.

Too much high tier grief earlier this week; played five Mutsuki games to try and relax a bit. One against T4 carriers, the rest against T6.

NOT ONCE was I sunk by a carrier. I got harassed more in the Normandie games I played afterwards than I did in Mutsuki.

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Dunno, Tashkent is still pretty good in CV heavy battles. Since you are constantly spotted you don't have to care about stealth at all and Repair Party helps alot. While no DFAA the AA at least to me is no slouch, and the speed is even better. A Midway would have to spend quite a bit of time and effort to kill you, and besides as an open water gunboat being closer to your allies is the way of the game since you want meatshields and range.

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23 minutes ago, Brhinosaurus said:

I think you're exaggerating the difficulty in playing DDs right now.  It's not impossible to do well in them - I disagree with your assessment that "Groz is the only T10 that is playable".

Throwing a lot of free xp at the lines is depriving yourself of the opportunity to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the line as you go.  I would suggest picking whatever line is most interesting to you, and going through it gradually, not moving from one tier to the next until you feel comfortable in it.

The groz line is particularly weird because it keeps alternating between torp ninjas and high speed bad detection run-and-gunners.

If you're feeling particularly abused by CVs I would recommend working on the british or pan-asian lines.  Both of those lines offer considerable quantities of the smoke generator consumable, which is handy if you wind up facing a carrier that has it in for you.

This game I was facing a very good cv driver. And both dds were gone in the first 5 minutes

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3 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Dunno, Tashkent is still pretty good in CV heavy battles. Since you are constantly spotted you don't have to care about stealth at all and Repair Party helps alot. While no DFAA the AA at least to me is no slouch, and the speed is even better. A Midway would have to spend quite a bit of time and effort to kill you, and besides as an open water gunboat being closer to your allies is the way of the game since you want meatshields and range.

Thanks, I'll try meatshielding.

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1 minute ago, MEANN said:

This game I was facing a very good cv driver. And both dds were gone in the first 5 minutes

I won't deny that a very good CV player can do very bad things to DDs, but most matches will not feature very good CV players.  Most will have average or worse CV players, or, if you're very lucky, no CV at all. 

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14 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

True, but unlike a lot of the haters, apparently, I also played lots of carriers, (though not really that well,) under RTS.

I didn’t have trouble getting bothered by RTS carriers, and I don’t have trouble with them now. Even in four carrier games, I don’t have an issue.

Too much high tier grief earlier this week; played five Mutsuki games to try and relax a bit. One against T4 carriers, the rest against T6.

NOT ONCE was I sunk by a carrier. I got harassed more in the Normandie games I played afterwards than I did in Mutsuki.

May I have a video of those games you excelled?  I'd like to see how you accomplished this !  So far, I haven't been able to crack the code at the upper levels....  Tier 4-6 no issues.  7-8 depends on who shows up.  9-10 forget it.....  Overall, it's just NVA to play DD's anymore and they are my primary ships.......   I'd like to see this video and study it...

What say you?!  Care to help us DD drivers out?

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 Good luck out there

 my overcoming was a move to the cruiser line and put the DDs on a shelf for now

  They are still playable but not much fun if you draw the attention of the CVs

 

 

Edited by silverdahc

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Overall, Most DDs are fine if played properly.

I stress *most* since gunboat DDs like the Khab RU line and the upcoming French DDs do suffer a fair amount as their whole gimmick is to run and gun out in the open where they are constantly detected.

A CV has immense trouble finding a high tier DD that's not firing it's guns and who's AA is turned off due to their circa 2.8km concealment (assuming both CE and Concealment Mod). But the moment you start firing your guns, you're like this massive "Kill Me" beacon to nearby CV planes with rockets or HE bombs.

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46 minutes ago, MEANN said:

The cv's are here and I know they are not going away. But how do you play a ship line if you cant survive the first 3 minutes?

if you dont skip the 5 to 9 you are almost always going to have 2 cvs. Not that they would both focus the one or maybe 2 dds!

Play Co -Op? 

I am open to thoughts and ideas. 

My answer is to play CO-Op with experience signals mounted, play Operations with signals mounted and NEVER touch randoms for not only this, but varied reasons that keep mounting. 

With CV now being allowed in Clan Wars, I am adding them to my never touch list.

Does it take longer - yes, but it's worth not having the frustration to me.

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CV's have always been the bane of DD's, only difference at the present is the number of CV's being played compared to before the rework.

How one plays a DD now requires an adjustment.

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When I finally get to DD tech tree grinds, completely based off forum perspectives, I may just do them in co op. Sorry co opers, Im gonna steal all your kills.

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1 hour ago, Brhinosaurus said:

I think you're exaggerating the difficulty in playing DDs right now.  It's not impossible to do well in them - I disagree with your assessment that "Groz is the only T10 that is playable".

Throwing a lot of free xp at the lines is depriving yourself of the opportunity to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the line as you go.  I would suggest picking whatever line is most interesting to you, and going through it gradually, not moving from one tier to the next until you feel comfortable in it.

The groz line is particularly weird because it keeps alternating between torp ninjas and high speed bad detection run-and-gunners.

If you're feeling particularly abused by CVs I would recommend working on the british or pan-asian lines.  Both of those lines offer considerable quantities of the smoke generator consumable, which is handy if you wind up facing a carrier that has it in for you.

Of all the DD lines, I've found the Russian DD's to be the toughest to grind

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OK so all DD's are a bit difficult these days, but the Udaloi and the Tashkent both have "ok" AA for a DD..  Both have lousy detect which I pretty much ignore and use them as  run and gun with situational torps and considering they are both 8k torps you actually can get some use out of them.

Granted a determined CV driver(s) will make life even more miserable but you run around pretty much detected all the time anyway, and the Tash having 15k range on it's guns is interesting and a Repair party which helps and the Udaloi has access to DFAA,  but I have not totally figured it out and it's guns are a bit shorter range.

So use them like a light cruiser and keep moving all the time..  Support capping when you can otherwise run around and shoot stuff and cause mayhem when you can launch torps.. 

I have had some games where I shot down a fair amount of air craft with each of them. 

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1 hour ago, Brhinosaurus said:

I won't deny that a very good CV player can do very bad things to DDs, but most matches will not feature very good CV players.  Most will have average or worse CV players, or, if you're very lucky, no CV at all. 

Can we just stamp this response over the various CV dealing with it vs. cv-hating  it  threads that are all over this forum?

 

The unicum have always been among us but the flying potatoes have always been more numerous.

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A surprisingly useful general technique is to watch the planes on the minimap and drive straight at them with your AA off when you see them coming your way. In a high-speed destroyer, you will absolutely be able to get underneath them before they can arm an attack run in response.

Of course, from there, you need to find some way to get to either smoke or a heavy friendly AA bubble, otherwise you're probably in trouble for the return pass. Maybe you can go around in circles with the CV all game, but that's not going to get you much XP either. Sorry, but until WG does something about DD AA, all you have available to you is trying to be enough of a pain in the [edited]that he gives up and goes after somebody else instead.

Edited by Edgecase

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The absolute best way to mitigate the effect a high tier CV can have on your destroyer is to make yourself a less appealing target.  Switch AA on & off as aircraft enter and leave your detection radius (this includes in between strikes, as the CV is circling his planes around for another attack on you).  As Edgecase mentioned above, when detection by aircraft is unavoidable, turn into the planes and use engine boost if available--the CV player will not have a chance to line up an accurate strike on you before you've passed beneath their squadron.  Where possible, stay within the AA umbrella of a friendly cruiser with good anti-aircraft capabilities; this doesn't mean parked next to a Des Moines behind an island, just keeping your DD within about 6km of the nearest AA cruiser's position (and maneuvering closer when an air strike comes in).  Use your smoke charges to avoid prolonged air attacks, being sure to keep moving in an unpredictable manner within your smoke cloud.

Finally, understand that there will be times when a CV player just decides that you're the only ship on the enemy team and sends every single plane he's got your way.  With the way the game is currently set up, you can't escape being sunk in this scenario--what you can do is make him waste as much time as possible sinking you.  That whole time he's chipping away at your health pool, he is not doing anything at all to your teammates...soaking up air attacks for 10+ minutes of the battle isn't going to do much for your own XP & credit earnings, and it isn't going to be fun in the slightest, but it can at least make it easier for the rest of your team to secure the win.

Edited by Harv72b

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2 hours ago, MEANN said:

I just skipped most of the Russian dd's due to suffering of cv focus and lack of any aa to speak of.

Turn off AA, stay away from caps, dont make yourself a priority target, smoke when necessary, strike when planes are seen elsewhere.

Like radar, CVs are nothing more than a simple annoyance, adapt and overcome.

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Usually the most reliable way is to save your smoke and use it as away to avoid cv.   Now I don't typically get caught in a compromising situation so I dont have to worry too much about being torped or radar while in smoke (you need to know how to do this with or without cv anyways).

Sitting in smoke for 30 secs is more than long enough for the cv to bugger off.  Think about this, would a cv player hover over you for potentially minutes while your team is doing damage to his, your cv is damaging his team, and he is giving up his damage to hover over you?  As soon as you see his plane over another part of the map you can come back out and continue.

  I am still getting used to it / trying to be more efficient about it myself.  The worst that can happen is using the smoke to disengage from surface ships then to get caught in a bombing run.

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I am also grinding RU DDs, just arrived to Tashkent.

What I do is playing at least one battle with each ship, Tier II and up, so all completely developed ships`experience goes to the grinding one.

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So you FXP'd mid tier DDs because you didnt like CVs so you got higher tier DDs so you could go up against higher tiered even more powerful CVs?

I could have saved you some money.  The Groz gets its [edited]kicked from time to time as well.  Pretty often actually.  It's bad up and down the line.  Being a DD player just sucks.  If you dont change your play style no DD will save you at any tier with the current meta.  Stay with friends and stay safe is the only answer.  DDs become more dangerous the longer a game lasts.  

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3 hours ago, MEANN said:

I just skipped most of the Russian dd's due to suffering of cv focus and lack of any aa to speak of. I got the T9 today and was excited! Well I upgraded to full aa captain 16 points only missing aft. Launched into my first game! Middway, well 3 minutes into the game i was finally close enough to shoot at a cruiser.....14 hits, then i was finished off by the same cv. It took him all of his rocket attacked to leave me with 300 health. I did however kill one of his planes. Only 1 bomber run was the end. So 117 xp of 260k that I need. See my problem.

At this rate the only option is play a different boat to farm free xp. 

spend money to convert xp

But to me this seems to ruin the experience of learning a ship line. I want to play dds and I know that the Grozi is the only T10 that is playable in randoms. I have played my Gearing and it is ok, but almost all of the Gun boat dds will kill me. Daring Khab, ect. 

The cv's are here and I know they are not going away. But how do you play a ship line if you cant survive the first 3 minutes?

if you dont skip the 5 to 9 you are almost always going to have 2 cvs. Not that they would both focus the one or maybe 2 dds!

Play Co -Op? 

I am open to thoughts and ideas.

I learned the Shimma from playing the entire line. It was very useful in understanding how to play the boats. That was of course pre cv rework. 

We need to make the grind possible for every ship type. not just aa boats. 

Maybe this video will help, just made it for another CV vs DD thread.  I am pretty much taking the most retarded build I can into CV games and seeing how far positioning and smart play will take me.

 

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3 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Maybe this video will help, just made it for another CV vs DD thread.  I am pretty much taking the most retarded build I can into CV games and seeing how far positioning and smart play will take me.

 

Thanks 😊

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