Jump to content
AdmiralThunder

Bot Richelieu's = the epitomy of the cheating bots

51 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

331
[TCNNA]
Members
1,040 posts
17,183 battles

Bot have really super super aim. 

In a battle I was doing a usual DD yolo rush on a BB at cap A.

Drop torps , manouver, ....get a full salvo of shells!!!

wth is shooting me? BB torped have not turned guns and were not secondary........

Looking at minimap was a a BB at C!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,225
[PVE]
Members
9,507 posts
16,936 battles
10 hours ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

I think I encountered the epitome of cheating the other day- when a bot Kidd fired a 15 torpedo spread at me.

  Kidd has ONE quintuple tube launcher, period.   No reload booster, nothing.  It's a gunboat.   Yet this one launched 15 torps at me...    They were all coming in in an even mass- originating from a single point, and it was all one wave.   So no multiple ships, and no super duper fast reloads.

  Kidd was the ONLY ship in the area.    It was a flat out cheat.

  Other torpedo cheats I've seen:

- torpedoes turning to follow you.   (like it was pre-decided that your ship would die to a torpedo spread)

- RN single fire torps all hitting the same spot- and all doing full damage.  (ie ignoring damage saturation.)   I think this salvo also did a bit of the above also, as they came in in a strait line, one after the other- and I could not dodge them, no matter how I turned.   I anticipated their launch, and started dodging early- and was thus sailing directly away from them.   It SHOULD have been easy to dodge that line of torps, but no matter which way I went, they came strait at me, and EVERY one of them hit.

- "ghost" torpedoes launched by long dead ships, that appear way after the fact- and even though you are in a completely different place, and have changed direction and/or speed AFTER sinking the bot- they are on a perfect course to hit you.   These salvos are especially difficult to dodge.

 

  And, like the OP, I find it particularly annoying to be on the recieving end of ultra accurate fire from a ship that has a hard time hitting the ocean in player hands.    Having Hellen Keller as my chief gunnery officer played a big role in me selling off my Richelieu...

I have seen the bots reload almost instantly/way sooner than they should be able to before and get me with a second set after missing the 1st (see this with BB guns reloading and firing within seconds of the 1st salvo quite often too). Can't say I have seen them do 3 torp launches simultaneously from the same tubes though. That's a new one for the list.:Smile_facepalm:

Yeah, don't you love it when you pre-emptively WASD to avoid torps by changing course and/or speed and lo and behold a few seconds later here comes that bot's torps perfectly in line to paddle you. It's even worse when it is the Ghost Torps from a ship you sunk before it had any chance of launching so obviously they came after it died.

You missed one though. That is how they can launch them at angles that are impossible; like straight ahead with no bow mounted tubes. I was on 2 Brother's once. I was in a BB, in a flank cap, fighting a couple ships. Was running right up next to the big islands in the middle. Didn't want to as I had ships to my right that had my side and a BB and a Konigsberg in front as well. Kind of got caught by surprise and in a bad spot I couldn't turn out of.  Got what angle I could to the  side ships and kept bow on to the BB out front.

So as I am moving forward (:Smile_izmena:) the Konigsberg is out front and is coming straight at me and never was at an angle it could launch torps from the moment I saw it (either no angle or tip of island in way - plus too far anyway). So as I close I am able to pen it through the bow for a couple citadels and take it out. The BB actually went off to the left for some reason and out of sight behind the islands. So with the threat to the front gone I started to turn into the ships out in the cap to deal with them. Just as my rudder got over and the bow started to swing oh look here comes the Konigsberg's torps coming straight down at me parallel to the island.  Of course I ate enough to get sunk as there was no way to dodge. Perfectly timed to strike me when a turn was not possible AND launched out of the ship as it was bow on to me.

Yup bots don't cheat. It's all in our heads and just confirmation bias.:Smile_sceptic:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,225
[PVE]
Members
9,507 posts
16,936 battles
9 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

It almost seems like the torpedoes are "Heisenberg" torpedoes -- they don't travel, they just appear where you are X seconds after the bot launches them, no matter how much you've turned or changed speed between then and the moment they appear. 

 

I honestly believe this is true. They appear where needed to hit you within the time frame of travel distance and speed allowed (and I believe I have seen bot torpedoes exceed their travel distance as well). I have had quite a few of those RU 4km torps magically hit me when I am a good 6Km away.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
331
[TCNNA]
Members
1,040 posts
17,183 battles

I only play co-op and I never see this things.

I just notice: 

Bot know where you are even if never spotted

They show broadside if you have he, if you go ap they turn

They never miss. Even if you manouver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,798
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
7,785 posts
1 hour ago, Mikebello said:

I only play co-op and I never see this things.

I just notice: 

Bot know where you are even if never spotted

They show broadside if you have he, if you go ap they turn

They never miss. Even if you manouver.

On that last one, you can tell when that's "turned off" in some PTS iterations. 

If you really watch on live, it appears that one or more shells in a volley will "randomly drift" to where you are, rather than where you were going to when the bot fired, regardless of turning or speed change.  Not all of them, just one or more of them. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
76 posts
11,692 battles

The bots we have now are not the ones you played just a couple patches ago for those that disbelieve. I have played a lot of PVE and ever patch the bots have improved, or been given more cheating abilities to make up for bad AI. Speaking about AI have you noticed how it is actually started improving also bravo WOW those that are playing Co-op to learn and get better have a much improved bot now.  A couple things that irritate me are how they will pick one ship, and every dang ship no matter how far away or how many next to it are shooting it will focus fire on it till sunk now just see how often that really works in PVP's non-existent team play. Torps are useless beyond 4k and best fired at 2-3k. I still get misses some times at those ranges if only I could see torps the instant they were launched at me too I would be a legend by now. 😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
612
[WOLF9]
Members
4,015 posts
10 hours ago, Mikebello said:

I only play co-op and I never see this things.

I just notice: 

Bot know where you are even if never spotted

They show broadside if you have he, if you go ap they turn

They never miss. Even if you manouver.

  I actually made a bot DD dance, once, lol.   We were on opposite sides of a long ridge of islands- I think it was Ring, maybe.   When I turned around to go the other way, and catch him from behind- he matched my maneuver.    So I sat there- first going one way, then the other- and the bot kept turning when I turned.    It was both funny and ridiculous.

 I've also watched them react to me changing Ammo types.  (guns not loaded yet, so no shells fired)   HE?  they turn out, showing broadside to bring their rear guns/torpedo tubes to bear.  AP?  they turn in to bow tank.

  They also react to me putting the crosshairs on them, and when I first hit lmb, but before my guns actually fire.   Drives me nuts- another perfectly aimed salvo wasted...

  Not ALL of them do this- there are teams of the derpiest of derp bots that'll allow you to blast citadel after citadel into them- and do nothing,  as well.    Some days it feels like there are easy, normal, and killer modes to Co-op, and you get placed in one or the other randomly.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,225
[PVE]
Members
9,507 posts
16,936 battles
7 hours ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

  I actually made a bot DD dance, once, lol.   We were on opposite sides of a long ridge of islands- I think it was Ring, maybe.   When I turned around to go the other way, and catch him from behind- he matched my maneuver.    So I sat there- first going one way, then the other- and the bot kept turning when I turned.    It was both funny and ridiculous.

 I've also watched them react to me changing Ammo types.  (guns not loaded yet, so no shells fired)   HE?  they turn out, showing broadside to bring their rear guns/torpedo tubes to bear.  AP?  they turn in to bow tank.

  They also react to me putting the crosshairs on them, and when I first hit lmb, but before my guns actually fire.   Drives me nuts- another perfectly aimed salvo wasted...

  Not ALL of them do this- there are teams of the derpiest of derp bots that'll allow you to blast citadel after citadel into them- and do nothing,  as well.    Some days it feels like there are easy, normal, and killer modes to Co-op, and you get placed in one or the other randomly.

 

Yup.

You can be running from one or more undetected and they will mirror your every move with their course (or take some optimal course that lets a slower ship close the gap magically) and even guns (if you are last alive or nothing else they can shoot). I always laugh (sort of) when this happens and I see their guns tracking me as the hunt me down even though I am undetected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,033
[ARGSY]
Members
13,457 posts
8,639 battles
On 4/23/2019 at 4:43 PM, Gen_Saris said:

infinite planes performing PERFECT attacks time after time after time. 

And with all the self-preservation instinct of a Kamikaze pilot, I'm guessing. They won't bait out your DFAA and feint away like a good human player does; they'll come right in and get murdered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,225
[PVE]
Members
9,507 posts
16,936 battles
2 hours ago, Kebobstuzov said:

[hidden]

Spoiler

And that in what way indicates I have trouble dealing with them? And of course you only used part of the section that came from and you don't include the most important (bolded below) part that explains the part you did quote...

Quote

But oh man god help you if you are on the receiving end of a bot Richelieu. At any range and any angle they have been hammering me lately. I can only wish for 1/2 the accuracy and damage potential those red bot Richelieu's get. It's quite annoying and comical at the same time.

So when you take into account the rest of the post where I talk about how much better their accuracy is with the ship and how the bot version seems to get better damage it translates, for anyone with an ounce of reading comprehension, into nothing more than comments on, and LOL'ing at, the way bots get these improved aspects over what we get in a ship. I used this specific ship as a good example of it.

NO WHERE does it say I have trouble with them and can't deal with them. 

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,798
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
7,785 posts
2 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:
Spoiler

 

And that in what way indicates I have trouble dealing with them? And of course you only used part of the section that came from and you don't include the most important (bolded below) part that explains the part you did quote...


 

 

So when you take into account the rest of the post where I talk about how much better their accuracy is with the ship and how the bot version seems to get better damage it translates, for anyone with an ounce of reading comprehension, into nothing more than comments on, and LOL'ing at, the way bots get these improved aspects over what we get in a ship. I used this specific ship as a good example of it.

NO WHERE does it say I have trouble with them and can't deal with them. 

Don't waste your time, the poster you're responding to there is clearly just here to start trouble and troll -- they have effectively zero experience in the game mode being discussed.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,225
[PVE]
Members
9,507 posts
16,936 battles
29 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Don't waste your time, the poster you're responding to there is clearly just here to start trouble and troll -- they have effectively zero experience in the game mode being discussed.

 

In general I agree but I will be damned if I let some PVP snob come in and misrepresent what I said. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16
[000]
Members
52 posts
5,274 battles
On 4/23/2019 at 12:53 PM, Jiggiwatt said:

Creating a 'cheat' requires manipulation of the code for that particular mechanic. Things like shell dispersion are calculated server-side, as opposed to within the game client. This means what you're describing simply isn't possible. More a case of 'confirmation bias' I think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

*edit: To be fair though, it's possible to create a bot who's aim is consistently better than a human, but that's entirely different than dispersion.

Of course it's possible, the programmers can code whatever parameters they want. What a ridiculous statement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
707 posts
4,742 battles
13 minutes ago, Everhandy said:

Of course it's possible, the programmers can code whatever parameters they want. What a ridiculous statement.

I've already corrected myself on this, I didn't realize OP was taking about CO-OP bots, I thought he was talking about bots people run in randoms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16
[000]
Members
52 posts
5,274 battles
1 minute ago, Jiggiwatt said:

I've already corrected myself on this, I didn't realize OP was taking about CO-OP bots, I thought he was talking about bots people run in randoms.

Fair enough, my apologies

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
148 posts
3,546 battles

The quality of the bots in this game is just laziness honestly. AI in other, more competently designed games seem to get slight reaction and accuracy nerfs to compensate for them being, well, AI.

Imagine how 'fun' UT bot matches would be if every shot landed perfectly on you, or imagine Pokemon where every single fire attack caused a Burn. That doesnt sound fun, because it isnt fun having to watch that crapbecause they cant be bothered to attempt to improve the 'humanness' of the AI in this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
161 posts
2,231 battles
On 4/23/2019 at 1:52 PM, AdmiralThunder said:

It's not confirmation bias unless almost every Co-op main in the game also suffers from it. Too many people seeing and posting the same stuff for it not to be true. 

Everyone does suffer from confirmation bias.  It's just how our brains work -- we notice unusual events and remember them more than the ordinary.  (OK, there probably are some exceptions, but if you want to claim to be one, you'd better provide very good evidence of it.)

For every case where you see an extremely accurate salvo from a bot, how many were there that landed all around your ship?  Did you count?

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,225
[PVE]
Members
9,507 posts
16,936 battles
3 hours ago, Pseudovector said:

Everyone does suffer from confirmation bias.  It's just how our brains work -- we notice unusual events and remember them more than the ordinary.  (OK, there probably are some exceptions, but if you want to claim to be one, you'd better provide very good evidence of it.)

For every case where you see an extremely accurate salvo from a bot, how many were there that landed all around your ship?  Did you count?

Yes, 3X's in almost 13K games.:Smile_teethhappy:

Seriously, I have enough games in the mode (at every tier) to know what I know. It goes way beyond I have seen it once or twice and think it is the norm. It happens with extreme regularity (pretty much every game). The bots are way more accurate and do not seem to be held to armor mechanics the way humans are among other things.    

IF you disbelieve me that is ok; I will live. But it is not me fooling myself or making stuff up. It's real and it happens all the bloody time. But it's ok because the AI needs these cheats to compete. Doesn't make them any less annoying or frustrating at times just acceptable/understandable.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

Edited by AdmiralThunder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
95
[CO-OP]
Members
380 posts
18,262 battles
On 4/24/2019 at 9:33 AM, PoP_56_61 said:

The bots we have now are not the ones you played just a couple patches ago for those that disbelieve. I have played a lot of PVE and ever patch the bots have improved, or been given more cheating abilities to make up for bad AI. Speaking about AI have you noticed how it is actually started improving also bravo WOW those that are playing Co-op to learn and get better have a much improved bot now.  A couple things that irritate me are how they will pick one ship, and every dang ship no matter how far away or how many next to it are shooting it will focus fire on it till sunk now just see how often that really works in PVP's non-existent team play. Torps are useless beyond 4k and best fired at 2-3k. I still get misses some times at those ranges if only I could see torps the instant they were launched at me too I would be a legend by now. 😁

Yeah, the focus can be a pain. I'm now fairly careful about firing on CV spotted ships early in game as you end up getting focused by every sodding red BB if you do. Or when you're knife fighting in A and from 16km away a bot BB takes half your health despite it being engaged with 2 ships in C. They also have the ability to fore and aft their guns when they're not engaged, optimizes their turret rotation when someone approaches from either side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
161 posts
2,231 battles
22 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

3X's in almost 13K games.:Smile_teethhappy:

I'm not sure what you're saying here.  3X's = 3 times?  That sounds fairly rare.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it takes more than many persons seeing something to rule out confirmation bias.  The fact that confirmation bias could be at work does not rule out that there could be a real effect, just that it'll take more solid evidence to rule out confirmation bias and show that there is something there.

If someone does have solid evidence one way or another, I'd like to see it.  Otherwise, my position is that I honestly don't know.

Do bots in the training room have the same "cheats"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,622
[_-_]
Members
2,297 posts
6,912 battles
On 4/23/2019 at 1:06 PM, AdmiralThunder said:

 want a refund on my spray and pray Richelieu who's gunnery officer is Stevie Wonder, that feels like it is shooting pillows at times, and I want one of those Laser accurate, hammer of the gods damage, gunned Richelieu's the bots get. :Smile_teethhappy:

Be grateful Richy is tech tree.

The only reason Roma is in my port is to preempt  containers from dropping me another one. Bot Romas are a royal PITA, whereas my pasta barge can't hit a lasagna pan to save her life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,225
[PVE]
Members
9,507 posts
16,936 battles
4 hours ago, Pseudovector said:

I'm not sure what you're saying here.  3X's = 3 times?  That sounds fairly rare.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it takes more than many persons seeing something to rule out confirmation bias.  The fact that confirmation bias could be at work does not rule out that there could be a real effect, just that it'll take more solid evidence to rule out confirmation bias and show that there is something there.

If someone does have solid evidence one way or another, I'd like to see it.  Otherwise, my position is that I honestly don't know.

Do bots in the training room have the same "cheats"?

That is humorous sarcasm. No I have not counted the times the bots missed but in 13K games I have seen enough to speak with authority on this. Trust me the bots miss WAY WAY WAY less than they hit. Bots will hit you at max range, with notoriously inaccurate ships, perfectly with almost the full salvo despite WASD. You can almost see the shells flow with your movement at times.

If multiple people are seeing and reporting the same thing, over an extended period of time, that is not confirmation bias. While I did word this as a "recently" thing the only part that is recent is seeing so many Richelieu's on the bot side. They seem to have become MM's favorite bot BB to insert. The insane accuracy and damage from them, that a human can't reproduce, occurs all the time with all the ships. THAT part has been going on for as long as I have played the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,225
[PVE]
Members
9,507 posts
16,936 battles
37 minutes ago, So_lt_Goes said:

Be grateful Richy is tech tree.

The only reason Roma is in my port is to preempt  containers from dropping me another one. Bot Romas are a royal PITA, whereas my pasta barge can't hit a lasagna pan to save her life.

Same. Roma is a port queen for me as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,798
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Members
7,785 posts
1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

That is humorous sarcasm. No I have not counted the times the bots missed but in 13K games I have seen enough to speak with authority on this. Trust me the bots miss WAY WAY WAY less than they hit. Bots will hit you at max range, with notoriously inaccurate ships, perfectly with almost the full salvo despite WASD. You can almost see the shells flow with your movement at times.

If multiple people are seeing and reporting the same thing, over an extended period of time, that is not confirmation bias. While I did word this as a "recently" thing the only part that is recent is seeing so many Richelieu's on the bot side. They seem to have become MM's favorite bot BB to insert. The insane accuracy and damage from them, that a human can't reproduce, occurs all the time with all the ships. THAT part has been going on for as long as I have played the game. 

I've long seen the same things. 

Also, the ability of bots to hit targets they can't see (as in spotted by another bot, but the firing bot has a rock in the way) through tiny windows...

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
95
[CO-OP]
Members
380 posts
18,262 battles

Since they pulled CVs from the bot pool MM seems to be taking rather too many tots of rum, as the blue v red roster rarely match, and Thunder is right Richelieu seems to be the favored choice when replacing a t8 CV or any excuse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×