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Koogus

Playing DD against CVs

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This is likely not a popular opinion but I find that I don't have to much issue playing a DD in matches with CVs. A lot of the time they don't primarily target me and I don't have to much issue avoiding rockets and dive bombs. when they do primarily go for me I think it's more of a advantage because that means the enemy CV is distracted with me instead of trying to deal with my whole team. 

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Yeah as long as you can stay alive most of the battle against a CV insisting on only attacking you then it can indeed be helpful to your team.

Can get a little annoying though if a CV spots you when your trying to use the element of surprise to try and attack enemy ships. Or if your focused by a CV an entire battle it can hurt your credit and XP profits as well.

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1 hour ago, Koogus said:

This is likely not a popular opinion but I find that I don't have to much issue playing a DD in matches with CVs. A lot of the time they don't primarily target me and I don't have to much issue avoiding rockets and dive bombs. when they do primarily go for me I think it's more of a advantage because that means the enemy CV is distracted with me instead of trying to deal with my whole team. 

Holy smokes, none of this crazy talk!

In all seriousness I'm having the same experience.  The only issue I'm having is it's fairly rare that I do a lot of damage due to having to avoid/deal with CV attacks.  Those juicy, 100k plus damage games are fairly rare for me, but that's also due just as much to my relative inexperience in high tier DD play as it is to the presence of a CV in the game.

What bothers me is when there's only one CV per team and that player concentrates on pretty much one ship for the entire game and the rest of my team doesn't take advantage.  I've had games where my team has 3-4 DDs and even though the CV is concentrating on me the rest of our DDs run and hide as if the CV is going after them. I'll gladly occupy the CVs time if the rest of my team takes advantage of that so we can win.

Oh, as you mentioned, you can actually avoid attacks and take little to no damage.  Yes, the really good CV players are usually able to press home their attacks but most of the ones I've face I've been able to maneuver and take little to no damage.  I see so many DD players that don't even make an effort to avoid attacks and they greatly suffer as a result.

 

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I feel this way to. As a cruiser or BB there’s really not much stopping a CV from throwing planes at you until you die. With a DD you can always smoke up, and that doesn’t prevent you from throwing torps or spamming guns or capping or whatnot.

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Putting AA mod 2, BFT, and AFT on your dd boat will give cvs a nasty surprise. Truth be told, 95% of the time my dd is killed by other boats. On rare occasions planes kill me. I don't get all the cv hate

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6 minutes ago, UltimateXYLANDER said:

Hatsuharu + secondary/AAA build is a fun as hell way to ruin a CV's day.  FYI.

Harugumo?

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This has been said a lot, but it bears repeating because the DD community as a whole hasn't all caught up to it yet - turn the AA off unless you need it on for some reason. In my games on Sunday every single DD I attacked got attacked because his AA told me where he was. I just flew into the area and waited for AA to start shooting at me. 

DD aerial spotting ranges are tiny and planes move very fast. It is very hard to find DDs with their AA off. Most CVs won't spend a lot of time looking for a DD that is doing a good job of hiding because that is time they don't get to attack what actually gets them points - the battleships. Even AA DDs should keep the AA off unless and until they are actually visually spotted. Then turn it on and shred the planes and turn it back off if the planes move out of spotting range so you fall off of detection again. Non-AA DDs should turn it off and leave it off unless they are trying to kill a fighter consumable that is spotting them. There is no other reason for those guys to have AA on … unless they are trying to tell the CV where they are. 

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Of course you can make DDs work against CVs. Is it fun though? They could eliminate all smoke from DDs and people would still say: "you can still do well in them". Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's fun or balanced.

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7 minutes ago, Vector03 said:

Of course you can make DDs work against CVs. Is it fun though? They could eliminate all smoke from DDs and people would still say: "you can still do well in them". Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's fun or balanced.

This is just my opinion but I find it fun dodging a CVS planes and I only really use my smokes when I really need it or during a cap when I am spotted 

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13 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

Most CVs won't spend a lot of time looking for a DD that is doing a good job of hiding because that is time they don't get to attack what actually gets them points - the battleships. 

Not if they ran into me.  LOL  when i bring my T10/T8 CV to battle....DD is always my primary (or sole) target, they have concealment and speed to cap, and torpedoes post a significant threat to BB from my team.  I don't play CV to farm damage from BB, I play CV to take out the biggest threat in the battle, which in my mind is all the DD.  I would literally spend whole 20min of battle hunting DD and DD alone, until they are all dead, they would be so busy trying to hide in smoke they practically became useless to their team with ZERO contribution in spotting or capping or torping BB.  My CV would only deal with cruisers and BB after all DD have been eliminated.

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I've got several videos up running TRB IJN torp boats with no issues.  The CV issue is resolved through positioning mostly.  To really have an impact consistently on a DD a CV needs to be able to drop a DD repeatedly with a single squad.  If you use smart positioning keeping 2 other AA ships inside you concealment circle on the mini map it becomes quite costly to achieve that.  They end up recalling, taking another squad out to hunt you, in the mean time your CV can be getting more out of each of their squads giving the team an advantage.

DDs need to adjust to this new reality.  You can still get a lot done 4-5km in front of your friendly CA and BBs.

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6 hours ago, Koogus said:

This is likely not a popular opinion but I find that I don't have to much issue playing a DD in matches with CVs. A lot of the time they don't primarily target me and I don't have to much issue avoiding rockets and dive bombs. when they do primarily go for me I think it's more of a advantage because that means the enemy CV is distracted with me instead of trying to deal with my whole team. 

Tell me what experience you have playing high tier DDs and how have you fared? Thanks.

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I'm tired of having to adjust EVERYTHING (for CV's) because they can't get CV's right.  Seriously, just offer an opt out so we can play all the ships in inventory.  Having to go heavy AA every game is dumb.

 

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Just now, Ramagar_RoK said:

I'm tired of having to adjust EVERYTHING (for CV's) because they can't get CV's right.  Seriously, just offer an opt out so we can play all the ships in inventory.  Having to go heavy AA every game is dumb.

 

Or having spent money on premium ships with no AA and they are basically unplayable, rusting away in our ports.

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10 hours ago, Koogus said:

This is likely not a popular opinion but I find that I don't have to much issue playing a DD in matches with CVs. A lot of the time they don't primarily target me and I don't have to much issue avoiding rockets and dive bombs. when they do primarily go for me I think it's more of a advantage because that means the enemy CV is distracted with me instead of trying to deal with my whole team. 

You misunderstand. 

People don't really have a problem playing against CVs. They are just whining in the hopes of getting the real stealth counter removed from the game.

They managed to get several Nerfs quick enough that they think it's just a matter of time.

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5 hours ago, Junostorm said:

Harugumo?

Dual propose guns, so, yeah, Haru have strong AA [with build]

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12 hours ago, Simzee said:

Midway HE dB are the bane of any ship.

Not really.  They pay for their accuracy by having to remain in the AA bubble for a very long time. They are very vulnerable to being shot down by strong AA particularly if there is more than one ship in the area or there are fighters up either from the carrier or another ship. The sling-shot drop helps somewhat but they still have to hover over the target ship for a while as they dive. 

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13 hours ago, Tzarevitch said:

Not really.  They pay for their accuracy by having to remain in the AA bubble for a very long time. They are very vulnerable to being shot down by strong AA particularly if there is more than one ship in the area or there are fighters up either from the carrier or another ship. The sling-shot drop helps somewhat but they still have to hover over the target ship for a while as they dive. 

Thanks I wasn’t aware of the finer aspects as I don’t play CV.

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On 4/23/2019 at 8:22 AM, Koogus said:

This is likely not a popular opinion but I find that I don't have to much issue playing a DD in matches with CVs. A lot of the time they don't primarily target me and I don't have to much issue avoiding rockets and dive bombs. when they do primarily go for me I think it's more of a advantage because that means the enemy CV is distracted with me instead of trying to deal with my whole team. 

1. You've never played a match above Tier VIII, and most of your limited DD matches are tier V or lower. The Tier X CVs are a much different story than lower tier CVs.

2. Lower Tier CVs are often still learning and many are horrible and even more are not very good. I've seen CVs in Tier VIII that average less than 1K damage and have 10+ matches, and 200 average XP. They are essentially not in the game.

3. You are a slightly below average DD player, so any above average CV running Match Maker will focus on a better played DD, then you. This means you are not often focused, which is what you have stated.

This isn't to say you are wrong, you are just still learning the game and do not have many DD matches yet. Against better CVs, the ability of a DD to contribute to the match is greatly affected.

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so hard to play high tier DD games against multiple CVs?

This one was even done on epicenter, which is even easier for CVs to guess where to find the DDs.

ddhard2multicv.thumb.jpg.c6c4b8d6e9595ef2d85d7914c726b9ee.jpg

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Dareios said:

so hard to play high tier DD games against multiple CVs?

This one was even done on epicenter, which is even easier for CVs to guess where to find the DDs.

 

 

It's 4 DDs per side, in epicenter, where by the nature of the map, you are forced to bunch up AA.

It's harder to focus a single DD when there are 4 of them on a team. Plus, if you look at the XP placement, a DD came in last on your team, and the bottom 2 were DDs on the other team, and and 2 other DDs did below team average.

Yes, DDs can have great matches even in a multiple CV game, but that's the exception, and your screenshot doesn't really represent that DDs as a whole are doing well, because DDs in your screenshot did the worst of any class ship.

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1 minute ago, Xanthro said:

It's 4 DDs per side, in epicenter, where by the nature of the map, you are forced to bunch up AA.

It's harder to focus a single DD when there are 4 of them on a team. Plus, if you look at the XP placement, a DD came in last on your team, and the bottom 2 were DDs on the other team, and and 2 other DDs did below team average.

Yes, DDs can have great matches even in a multiple CV game, but that's the exception, and your screenshot doesn't really represent that DDs as a whole are doing well, because DDs in your screenshot did the worst of any class ship.

Um, nope. just nope.

I was running solo, aggressively and not near any AA blob support.

The poor performance by the enemy DDs in that game WAS due to me. I solo'd the asashio and took about 3/4 off the gearing before the mogami finished it. I also had to gunboat down the cleveland while in the middle circle whilst dodging rocket planes (that was the fun part of the game, not going cv hunting after all the work was done).

Note the 1 kill between the 4 carriers combined. Eight DDs in the game, and the CVs on both sides failed to influence anything. And I repeat, most of us were in the vanguard and not huddled up with an aa blob. Our asashio suicided into the centre in the first two minutes. I think our bottom shima was forced out of smoke by radar and then hunted down by the audacious but not sure on that one.

What my screenshot shows, is that DD players who know how to act in maps where CVs are present do well. This is evidenced in this one anectdote by the fact that the top two scorers on our side were DDs, in a top tier bracket, against multiple CVs, and thus directly refutes the points that you claimed a previous posters opinion didnt count.

Sure, this is only one game, statistically irrelevant, but Im not in a habit of screening every game, even though Ive had a bunch of better and more recent DD games that this one, Its just that this game (a week ago) was just after I had another forum debate about exactly the same issue and it occured to me at that time to screen it as an example of how a Shima can still play fine with CVs.

anyway, friendly discussion, not her for a fight. gl.

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Epicenter, bad team.  Sorry, I've experienced good CV work at T10 on regular maps you would have been deleted moving on to a point.  As a DD player myself, I simply eat shims for lunch.

 

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