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Abcsam

T5 vs T7

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I think this is one of the most unbalanced lay outs.

So I like to warm up with T5's and it seems like every game I play at T5 is crowded with T7 boats I think at the lower tears this is kind of silly. Just like to hear what people think about extending the 1 tear above rule to 5's? I know i am not the best player far from it but if new people coming up get put into grinder matches i can see why no one makes it to T9 and T10 anymore they are all stuck at 5. 

Edited by Abcsam
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T5 has it better than most.  Your worst case scenario opponents don't use end-game weapon systems, and you never get to see T7 CVs.  Once you step into T6, you end up seeing plethora of T8 CVs, both tech tree and premiums, and T8 ships you will face will have weapons and upgrades that are worthy of facing T10 ships.  T7 have to face T9 premiums (Musashi, Missouri, Black, super cruisers), and T8 has it the worst when bottom tier.

In fact I personally believe T5 is one of the most balanced tiers in game, lower tiers may have better MM but their applicable firepower and clunky mobility really detract from all the fun to be had.

Edited by Ramsalot

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Meh, I just come to expect some uptiering unless playing T10. It will hone your skills in defensive play style. You'll become more patient in picking your shots. Plus I don't know exactly how much, but I believe you get a little compensation at the end of the game in a little bonus for playing in a bottom tiered match? There is always the pride factor to if you do really good. Have a positive impact to your team  especially if you win. You can screen shot and make a trophy picture if you end up being top XP earner with a win and being bottom tiered as well!

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All ships are +-2.  Been that way since the beginning.  Loads of people have lots of T10 ships. 

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Tier VII is the preferred tier by people in Randoms because of the Seal Clubbing opportunities.

Myoko, NOLA, Algerie vs Emerald, Omaha.  Is this a serious f--king competition?  Because it isn't.

Scharnhorst, Gneisenau with their very fast speeds, great secondaries, TORPEDOES vs 21kt New York, Texas?  Are people for reals in this?

 

It wasn't always this bad, OP.  Some years ago by now, WG changed Match Maker where Tier IV became protected, so even they rarely see Tier V.  Tier V & VI end up eating the sh*t sandwhich in Match Making.  Trust me when I say this has been brought up many times by people, but WG is insistent on maintaining this because they want the newer players in Tier IV to be protected before they are thrown into the wolves starting in Tier V.

 

Because Clemson and Imperator Nikolai I in Tier IV need "Match Making Protection" I guess.

 

In the old Match Maker, Tier IV didn't have protection but you saw a great variance of MM brackets.  More tiers had a chance to be top dog as well as having to pay the piper.

Tier VI Arizona facing off against Tier IV BBs like Wyoming.  That was Power.  But Arizona still had the prospect of facing Tier VIII stuff like North Carolina, Amagi.  So it all evened out.

Tier VI Molotov could be crushing Tier IV Cruisers, but still had the prospect of facing Tier VIII threats.

Etc.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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I just think at T7 you start moving into top tear stuff i mean T7 are meant to compete with T8's and T9's I always thought the 2 tear gap was for back when the game first came out and only 3k - 4k people played and the wait times where so long the community is healthy now i think we could close the gap for lower tears. 

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For the sake of nostalgia and possibly horror from the old days, this was a sample of Match Maker.  A screenshot from a September 30, 2015 Mighty Jingles video for then Tier VI Cleveland.  WoWS Launched on September 17, 2015.

Take a look at the ship roster and tier spread.

jMCpbxR.jpg

 

Non-Divisioned Tier III in a Tier VI game.

Yes folks.  No Tier IV protection.  +/-3 MM spread.  I actually miss those days :Smile_Default:  The ONLY tier that could truly boast being Top Tier was Tier X.  Today people play Tier VII so they could club Tier V ships.  Anyone saying otherwise is being dishonest with you.

 

And from the comments section of that video, for nostalgia's sake:

"cleveland is hell for a destroyer"

Cleveland is hell for anything, it's outright overpowered, Destroyers, Cruisers, Battleships, Carriers, all get demolished by Cleveland easily

 

:Smile_trollface:  Cleveland, as with all CLs, were able to take advantage of BFT & AFT at the time for their main batteries.  Those 2 traits at the time buffed 155mm or smaller guns, not the current 139mm or smaller rule it has now.  Cleveland in this time reached out to 17.6km and fired even more quickly.  Konigsberg used to reach out to 19.8km.

5L6Gdgv.jpg

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10 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Today people play Tier VII so they could club Tier V ships.  Anyone saying otherwise is being dishonest with you.

When I play Tier VII, I could care less about clubbing Tier V, and I am being honest when I say that.  The primary reason I play Tier VII is that it guarantees I never see T10 ships and (that is a bonus) T9 CVs.

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1 minute ago, Ramsalot said:

When I play Tier VII, I could care less about clubbing Tier V, and I am being honest when I say that.  The primary reason I play Tier VII is that it guarantees I never see T10 ships and (that is a bonus) T9 CVs.

There are no Tier IX CVs :Smile_trollface:

And please.  When the MM  changes came in, Tier VII popularity skyrocketed.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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53 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

All ships are +-2.  Been that way since the beginning.  Loads of people have lots of T10 ships. 

No, actually in the beginning, it was +/-3 tier MM.  And ya know something, I had to face Yammies in my Colorado, and I managed.  I did it by supporting the higher tier BBs on my tier.  And if I couldn't pen the Yammy, I'd HE spam it.  And I remember one specific battle where I did a surprising amount of damage on a Yammy simply by burning his aft mercilessly.

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

No, actually in the beginning, it was +/-3 tier MM.  And ya know something, I had to face Yammies in my Colorado, and I managed.  I did it by supporting the higher tier BBs on my tier.  And if I couldn't pen the Yammy, I'd HE spam it.  And I remember one specific battle where I did a surprising amount of damage on a Yammy simply by burning his aft mercilessly.

You had to do whatever means you could to deal damage.  I remember being a lot more stupid and stubborn as a newbie back then.  I stubbornly tried to keep using AP in Colorado against Yamato when the situation was obvious it would not work.  Bow on, angled Yamato, I kept on trying to use AP with Colorado.  No understanding on Overmatch, angling relative to AP performance, bad positioning by me.  I got schooled HARD.  But I learned.  Eventually :Smile_veryhappy:

 

Old version of Islands of Ice.  That's where I got a lot of my Tier VII+ education.

Good LORD, man.  I remember finally checking my stats around those days, I had around 1200 games in with 43% WR.  Saw it in Warships Today.  All my stats were red.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Tier VII popularity skyrocketed

T7 was the fan favorite because it was the highest tier that could stay out of T10.  T10 eventually became heavily saturated due to permanent camouflage that was not available when game launched.  People used to drop down to lower tiers to make some silver, but at some point T10 saturation started to push more people down to T7.  Whether you get to club T5 or not is never guaranteed, but not seeing T10s is.

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Just now, Ramsalot said:

T7 was the fan favorite because it was the highest tier that could stay out of T10.  T10 eventually became heavily saturated due to permanent camouflage that was not available when game launched.  People used to drop down to lower tiers to make some silver, but at some point T10 saturation started to push more people down to T7.  Whether you get to club T5 or not is never guaranteed, but not seeing T10s is.

Tier VI was the popular tier in those days.

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So is T7 the way to play? Like i said before i warm up in 5's then move up to 8/9 dipping into my 10s now and then. So is 7 the epic spot?

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I really don't mind Tier 5, and think it is generally well balanced. There are some really decent Tier 5 ships. When facing higher tier level ships you just have to adjust your play style a bit. Usually this means curbing your aggression a bit, supporting your higher tier teammates, and being an opportunistic hunter. Use islands and vision mechanics to your advantage. If your in a tier 5 BB, and try to go toe to toe with a tier 7 BB you are just asking to get your butt handed to you. Hunt cruisers instead. Tier 5 BB's are still quite capable of hurting an unwary Tier 6 or 7 cruiser. If all else fails, there is always the ram as a team play. Trading your lower tier ship for one of the enemy's higher tier ships is sometimes a good trade for the win.

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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Tier VI was the popular tier in those days.

Newer and cooler premiums are also to "blame".  I mean Scharnhorst and Nelson are way more fun than Warspite and Arizona, Belfast is way more fun than Molotov, etc.  Most of these new shiny T7 premiums came out at the later point.

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Just now, Ramsalot said:

Newer and cooler premiums are also to "blame".  I mean Scharnhorst and Nelson are way more fun than Warspite and Arizona, Belfast is way more fun than Molotov, etc.  Most of these new shiny T7 premiums came out at the later point.

An example of the popularity of Tier VI.  From a post in December 2015.

 

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I was wrong about the post T5 is well rounded out class and when you play with 5s and 4's its really op thank you all for the input. Thank you all so much for the clear headed thinking. 

Edited by Abcsam

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11 minutes ago, Abcsam said:

So is T7 the way to play? Like i said before i warm up in 5's then move up to 8/9 dipping into my 10s now and then. So is 7 the epic spot?

Tier VII is a very comfortable Tier, but it also depends.  Some of the lines, BBs in particular, really start defining, emphasizing their strengths.  Cruisers also.  I didn't feel like Tier VII DDs were that big of an upgrade over Tier VI, especially when having to deal with stealthier, deadlier Tier VIII-IX DDs.  I remember grinding Mahan and it was not a pleasant time being outspotted and outgunned by Bensons, Fletchers.  Later additions like Akizuki don't help matters for Tier VII DDs.  Stealth is the great separator of High Tier vs Tier VII DDs that often have poor concealment.  High Tier DDs access CSM1 upgrade and can implement a true Stealth Build.  Not to mention they tend to pack a lot of firepower.

 

Myoko, Algerie for example are great example Cruisers of the tier.  Algerie can troll a High Tier BB just fine with range and lots of open water.  Myoko cooks a Missouri just fine with her HE.  Let's not forget Fiji.  We've "Fail Divisioned" Fiji into Tier X games before and she'd still wreck face if played smartly.

 

16" guns in Tier VII will still punish a Tier VIII / IX BB if they make a dumb mistake, and even a High Tier Cruiser still must respect all BB gunfire.  You still got KGV who really doesn't give a.f. about your Tier IX armor.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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37 minutes ago, Abcsam said:

So is T7 the way to play? Like i said before i warm up in 5's then move up to 8/9 dipping into my 10s now and then. So is 7 the epic spot?

I am usually grinding down a line.  I will play for "fun" once in while and just pick my favorite ship(s). For the most part though, I need a goal to work toward.  So I play whatever tier is needed to get the next ship.

T7 has some good ships for the Narai operation, which is good for grinding out 19pt captains, which are in turn good for playing ops to get elite captain XP, which is used to get more 19pt captains for other ships.  It's like a snowball effect in that the more of them you have, the faster you get more of them.

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1 hour ago, Abcsam said:

I think this is one of the most unbalanced lay outs.

So I like to warm up with T5's and it seems like every game I play at T5 is crowded with T7 boats I think at the lower tears this is kind of silly. Just like to hear what people think about extending the 1 tear above rule to 5's? I know i am not the best player far from it but if new people coming up get put into grinder matches i can see why no one makes it to T9 and T10 anymore they are all stuck at 5. 

T7 has seemed to be the sweet spot in randoms. There are enough T5's & T6's in the queue to give T7's the top tiered spot more than any other tier. While T5 does get it share of bottom tiered matches, I believe T8 is the worse. Rarely do I get top tier as a T8. More often than not I am the bottom tier and many times facing 8 or more T10 ships. The population of each tier in the queue is the reason why, not a broken MM mechanic.

 

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2 hours ago, Abcsam said:

I think this is one of the most unbalanced lay outs.

So I like to warm up with T5's and it seems like every game I play at T5 is crowded with T7 boats I think at the lower tears this is kind of silly. Just like to hear what people think about extending the 1 tear above rule to 5's? I know i am not the best player far from it but if new people coming up get put into grinder matches i can see why no one makes it to T9 and T10 anymore they are all stuck at 5. 

I think Tier 5 - Tier 7 matches are fine and I didn't flinch when I was in them and my highest ship was T5.  It was fun and I thought, 'I can do this'.

When I got my 1st tier 8 and ended up in a t8- t10 match ( Randoms, not co-op atari) , that did get my attention and I feel like the level of everything had increased more exponentially than linearly.

No.... t5-7 is fine.

Fight with friends, watch videos and try to figure out how not to make mistakes.  It's a game ( I often forget) so lets have fun!

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