Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Audioknight

Come on Fix the Dam Cv vs Shimakaze

88 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

75
[EPEEN]
Members
39 posts

So sick of Cv vs Shimakaze. It's the damage you take per salvo is stupid. So every game i try to avoid planes at all cost as long as i can. But for the love god when they find you and can delete you in 2 salvo's come on. Yes i dodge and turn and change directions and speed and all that. And keep AA off till i have to turn it on which doesn't do crap anyway. Oh yeah and smoke what a joke that is as they just nuke you in it too, and smoke is a radar magnate. So if i live after all that i try as fast as i can to get to a different part of the map because the Cv will be right back at me in like 20 seconds with that crazy plane speed. I also try to stay close to good AA crusier's if i can too. Read War gaming's own description of CV at the game start screen. It's says their primary Job is to target (LARGE SURFACE AREA SHIPS). Cv's are not supposed to be this effective against the dd class. At this point you just don't have enough counter play as a Torp DD with crap AA. So if a Cv wants you gone your gone. I know some of you will be like play another DD or a different class. Why should i have to. This is my main and all the time spent to level it all the money spent on the game. Balance needs to be done for Torp boat DD's vs Cv's. Three or four of the gunboat DD's do fine with thier AA against CV. Please give some love to the Torp boat DD's.

 

  • Cool 10
  • Funny 5
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
268 posts

So sick of Shimakaze vs BB. It's the damage you take per torp is stupid. So every game i try to avoid torpedos at all cost as long as i can. But for the love god when they find you and can delete you in 2 spreads come on. Yes i dodge and turn and change directions and speed and all that. And keep guns on AP till i have to turn it on which doesn't do crap anyway. Oh yeah and rudder shift what a joke that is as they just nuke you in it too, and BB large size is a magnet. So if i live after all that i try as fast as i can to get to a different part of the map because the Shima will be right back at me in like 20 seconds with that crazy ship speed. I also try to stay close to good crusier's if i can too. Read War gaming's own description of DD at the game start screen. It's says their primary Job is to target (LARGE SURFACE AREA SHIPS). DD's are not supposed to be this effective against the BB class. At this point you just don't have enough counter play as a AP BB with crap Secondaries. So if a DD wants you gone your gone. I know some of you will be like play another BB or a different class. Why should i have to. This is my main and all the time spent to level it all the money spent on the game. Balance needs to be done for Torp boat DD's vs BB's. Three or four of the gunboat DD's do fine against anything Please give some love to the BBs that get picked on by Torp boat DD's.

  • Cool 6
  • Funny 18
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
75
[EPEEN]
Members
39 posts
18 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

So sick of Shimakaze vs BB. It's the damage you take per torp is stupid. So every game i try to avoid torpedos at all cost as long as i can. But for the love god when they find you and can delete you in 2 spreads come on. Yes i dodge and turn and change directions and speed and all that. And keep guns on AP till i have to turn it on which doesn't do crap anyway. Oh yeah and rudder shift what a joke that is as they just nuke you in it too, and BB large size is a magnet. So if i live after all that i try as fast as i can to get to a different part of the map because the Shima will be right back at me in like 20 seconds with that crazy ship speed. I also try to stay close to good crusier's if i can too. Read War gaming's own description of DD at the game start screen. It's says their primary Job is to target (LARGE SURFACE AREA SHIPS). DD's are not supposed to be this effective against the BB class. At this point you just don't have enough counter play as a AP BB with crap Secondaries. So if a DD wants you gone your gone. I know some of you will be like play another BB or a different class. Why should i have to. This is my main and all the time spent to level it all the money spent on the game. Balance needs to be done for Torp boat DD's vs BB's. Three or four of the gunboat DD's do fine against anything Please give some love to the BBs that get picked on by Torp boat DD's.

Dude BB's don't even have to worry about DD's much anymore near impossible to get to you with all the CV's and radar crusier's in the game so take you smart azz crap elsewhere.

  • Cool 3
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
312
[WPP1]
[WPP1]
Beta Testers
727 posts
4,683 battles
21 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

So sick of Shimakaze vs BB. It's the damage you take per torp is stupid. So every game i try to avoid torpedos at all cost as long as i can. But for the love god when they find you and can delete you in 2 spreads come on. Yes i dodge and turn and change directions and speed and all that. And keep guns on AP till i have to turn it on which doesn't do crap anyway. Oh yeah and rudder shift what a joke that is as they just nuke you in it too, and BB large size is a magnet. So if i live after all that i try as fast as i can to get to a different part of the map because the Shima will be right back at me in like 20 seconds with that crazy ship speed. I also try to stay close to good crusier's if i can too. Read War gaming's own description of DD at the game start screen. It's says their primary Job is to target (LARGE SURFACE AREA SHIPS). DD's are not supposed to be this effective against the BB class. At this point you just don't have enough counter play as a AP BB with crap Secondaries. So if a DD wants you gone your gone. I know some of you will be like play another BB or a different class. Why should i have to. This is my main and all the time spent to level it all the money spent on the game. Balance needs to be done for Torp boat DD's vs BB's. Three or four of the gunboat DD's do fine against anything Please give some love to the BBs that get picked on by Torp boat DD's.

Yup. People's narrow view makes them forget that almost any whine can be applied to any class. Face it, each class is OP in some way compared to another. 

And I'm a Shima main..lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
75
[EPEEN]
Members
39 posts
1 minute ago, QQ_Whine_Moar said:

Yup. People's narrow view makes them forget that almost any whine can be applied to any class. Face it, each class is OP in some way compared to another. 

And I'm a Shima main..lol

Dude lol look at your name QQ. All i see is a forum troll. Done with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
189
[CHBK]
Members
562 posts
2,550 battles
4 minutes ago, QQ_Whine_Moar said:

Yup. People's narrow view makes them forget that almost any whine can be applied to any class. Face it, each class is OP in some way compared to another. 

And I'm a Shima main..lol

Seriously.  Every damn ship has situations where it is annoying as hell to fight against and you may largely be helpless to do anything except try to escape.  Recently I pushed into a cap with a DD in my mass, then the holy hell rain of fire from Wooster and DesMoines behind cover came down on me.  In the time it took for me to vacate out of their range as fast as I could I was down to 20% health from 100.  craphappens.

Edited by Taco_De_Moist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
312
[WPP1]
[WPP1]
Beta Testers
727 posts
4,683 battles
Just now, Audioknight said:

Dude lol look at your name QQ. All i see is a forum troll. Done with you.

Good one. You made a clear, rational counter point......oh wait..

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
312
[WPP1]
[WPP1]
Beta Testers
727 posts
4,683 battles
1 minute ago, Taco_De_Moist said:

Seriously.  Every damn ship has situations where it is annoying as hell to fight against and you may largely be helpless to do anything except try to escape.

Shhhh. That's crazy talk. It only applies to CV vs Shima....lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
312
[WPP1]
[WPP1]
Beta Testers
727 posts
4,683 battles
10 minutes ago, Audioknight said:

 

That is almost as irrefutable as this screenie of me getting 6 kills in a 2 CV game a couple weeks back

 

Capture.PNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,213
[H_]
Members
2,435 posts
49 minutes ago, ph3l0n said:

So sick of Shimakaze vs BB. It's the damage you take per torp is stupid. So every game i try to avoid torpedos at all cost as long as i can. But for the love god when they find you and can delete you in 2 spreads come on. Yes i dodge and turn and change directions and speed and all that. And keep guns on AP till i have to turn it on which doesn't do crap anyway. Oh yeah and rudder shift what a joke that is as they just nuke you in it too, and BB large size is a magnet. So if i live after all that i try as fast as i can to get to a different part of the map because the Shima will be right back at me in like 20 seconds with that crazy ship speed. I also try to stay close to good crusier's if i can too. Read War gaming's own description of DD at the game start screen. It's says their primary Job is to target (LARGE SURFACE AREA SHIPS). DD's are not supposed to be this effective against the BB class. At this point you just don't have enough counter play as a AP BB with crap Secondaries. So if a DD wants you gone your gone. I know some of you will be like play another BB or a different class. Why should i have to. This is my main and all the time spent to level it all the money spent on the game. Balance needs to be done for Torp boat DD's vs BB's. Three or four of the gunboat DD's do fine against anything Please give some love to the BBs that get picked on by Torp boat DD's.

This is well done humor !  But, at least you have a chance to destroy the DD with all sorts of direct fire guns !  A DD has no chance against aircraft.....  And yes, the DD's should have a "limited amount" of torpedoes and, if that is enacted, torpedo damage needs to increase because they would only have 2 salvos to work with.....  

Carriers regenerate aircraft.   I'd like to see the Carriers "have to chose a role" and that would eliminate regeneration and set a fixed amount of aircraft and only "damaged" aircraft would be repaired....   That way, if the DD or Carrier stupidly use their torps or aircraft, that's on them to get better; not us to suffer their unlimited weapons......   That, would be balance based on skill............

Edited by Asym_KS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,343
[DRACS]
Members
4,734 posts

Their abnormally high survival rate and battle time engagement is what's giving CVs such high average XP numbers. Not nuking DDs. The fix to that is to simply reduce how much battle time experience they get.

As for Shima:

- Low gun DPM, but great HE alpha and fire chance.
- ***BY FAR*** the best torpedoes of any DD in the game. Nothing comes even close.
- One of the fastest DDs in the game. Only beat by gunboat Russians and the upcoming French DDs.
- Best concealment at tier 10 hands down.
- Smallest profile and hence hardest of the tier 10 DDs to hit with most weapons.

Shima is currently a very strong DD, with only carriers really able to counter her as she can outspot all other DDs and dictate the fight with them. So while I agree that Shimas are weak against carriers, you need to figure out which of the above pros you wish to nerf in exchange for making her better capable of dealing with CVs. But I'm betting you won't because no one EVER thinks about game balance when they call for nerfs to another ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,131
[SALVO]
Members
21,713 posts
22,016 battles
35 minutes ago, Audioknight said:

So sick of Cv vs Shimakaze. It's the damage you take per salvo is stupid. So every game i try to avoid planes at all cost as long as i can. But for the love god when they find you and can delete you in 2 salvo's come on. Yes i dodge and turn and change directions and speed and all that. And keep AA off till i have to turn it on which doesn't do crap anyway. Oh yeah and smoke what a joke that is as they just nuke you in it too, and smoke is a radar magnate magnet. So if i live after all that i try as fast as i can to get to a different part of the map because the Cv will be right back at me in like 20 seconds with that crazy plane speed. I also try to stay close to good AA crusier's if i can too. Read War gaming's own description of CV at the game start screen. It's says their primary Job is to target (LARGE SURFACE AREA SHIPS). Cv's are not supposed to be this effective against the dd class. At this point you just don't have enough counter play as a Torp DD with crap AA. So if a Cv wants you gone your gone. I know some of you will be like play another DD or a different class. Why should i have to. This is my main and all the time spent to level it all the money spent on the game. Balance needs to be done for Torp boat DD's vs Cv's. Three or four of the gunboat DD's do fine with thier AA against CV. Please give some love to the Torp boat DD's.

 

Stop thinking that having great concealment with your AA turned off is a magical invisibility cloak that prevents you from EVER being found. 

And let me be blunt, if you get nuked in smoke, IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!  If you smoke up while you're seen by those planes, the CV player will take note of the spot you were in when your smoke removed you from sight and drop on that spot, regardless of what weapons he carried.  The lesson is to NOT sit still on the spot you're last seen.  Also, you if you have planes overhead, DO NOT SHOOT YOUR GUNS!!!  If you do, you might as well say "HERE I AM!  SHOOT ME!"  At least you know that smoke is a radar magnet (not "magnate", for crying out loud!).  But it's also a torpedo magnet, whether from DD torpedoes or air dropped ones.  And that's not the fault of anyone but yourself!  If you're going to drop smoke to hide from CV planes (which isn't necessarily a bad idea), you MUST not stay in the same spot you were last seen or you will eat some torps from attacking TBs!

The problem I see here is someone who doesn't know how to play a DD in the CV meta.  This is the typical whine of people who are in DDs when their meta is changed, be it by radar or CV planes or open water stealth firing or whatever.  Wah!!!  I don't know how to adapt to this new meta.  Why shouldn't I be able to play the same way I did before?!!!  WAH!!!  Get OVER IT!  Learn to adapt to the new meta!!!

I won't say that properly played DDs are invulnerable to enemy CVs.  But they aren't the easy kills you make them out to be either.  One of the worst things I've seen a player do in a DD was to go off on his own.  And then he gets mad when a CV hunts him down and spots him, and either kills him directly or allows one of his team mates to do the actual killing.  I had this happen on trap where an  enemy Chung Mu head to the north east.  I was flying around the NE looking for him because I'd spotted him early on (and my CV was being herded in that direction by enemies heading north from A cap).  My planes were being spotted by "something" in the NE as I circled around C cap.  And because I didn't want that DD to be able to get past me, I seriously hunted him down, eventually finding him in grid A10.  I had a friendly cruiser helping me, so once I found him, I kept him spotted until the cruiser could close on the DD and spot it himself, and only then did I head back to my CV.   Having  said all that, whether that DD player realized it or not, even though he may have felt harassed by my relentless hinting of him, he also forced me to waste a LOT of time trying to find him.  And that's something that maybe DD players should consider.  It may not be as sexy as hunting enemy ships and doing damage, but my keeping the CV player busy hunting his DD, he kept me from doing damage to his team mates.

So, honestly, I think that you're very much in the wrong here.  Yes, DD AA isn't as strong in general as that of larger ships, but if you want better AA on your DDs, you can fit your DD and her captain with modules and skills that help improve that AA.  And also make better use of the AA sector controls.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
75
[EPEEN]
Members
39 posts
4 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Their abnormally high survival rate and battle time engagement is what's giving CVs such high average XP numbers. Not nuking DDs. The fix to that is to simply reduce how much battle time experience they get.

As for Shima:

- Low gun DPM, but great HE alpha and fire chance.
- ***BY FAR*** the best torpedoes of any DD in the game. Nothing comes even close.
- One of the fastest DDs in the game. Only beat by gunboat Russians and the upcoming French DDs.
- Best concealment at tier 10 hands down.
- Smallest profile and hence hardest of the tier 10 DDs to hit with most weapons.

Shima is currently a very strong DD, with only carriers really able to counter her as she can outspot all other DDs and dictate the fight with them. So while I agree that Shimas are weak against carriers, you need to figure out which of the above pros you wish to nerf in exchange for making her better capable of dealing with CVs. But I'm betting you won't because no one EVER thinks about game balance when they call for nerfs to another ship.

Nerf Shammy torp damage by 50%. How about that. yes that's how bad it's getting. I would take that for better AA against Cv's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,131
[SALVO]
Members
21,713 posts
22,016 battles
6 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Their abnormally high survival rate and battle time engagement is what's giving CVs such high average XP numbers. Not nuking DDs. The fix to that is to simply reduce how much battle time experience they get.

As for Shima:

- Low gun DPM, but great HE alpha and fire chance.
- ***BY FAR*** the best torpedoes of any DD in the game. Nothing comes even close.
- One of the fastest DDs in the game. Only beat by gunboat Russians and the upcoming French DDs.
- Best concealment at tier 10 hands down.
- Smallest profile and hence hardest of the tier 10 DDs to hit with most weapons.

Shima is currently a very strong DD, with only carriers really able to counter her as she can outspot all other DDs and dictate the fight with them. So while I agree that Shimas are weak against carriers, you need to figure out which of the above pros you wish to nerf in exchange for making her better capable of dealing with CVs. But I'm betting you won't because no one EVER thinks about game balance when they call for nerfs to another ship.

It is profoundly not true that the Shimmy has the best torps in the game.  The only thing that is true is that they have the most DAMAGING torpedoes in the game.  But their torps have weak detection ranges, which makes them easier to spot and evade.

As for best concealment, yes it's the best, but hardly hands down.  The Gearing (no UU) and YY both have sub-6.0 km concealment, so they're competitive.  And the  UU Gearing has, IIRC, the same concealment as the Shimmy.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,131
[SALVO]
Members
21,713 posts
22,016 battles
3 minutes ago, Audioknight said:

Nerf Shammy torp damage by 50%. How about that. yes that's how bad it's getting. I would take that for better AA against Cv's.

Try mounting the slot 3 AA upgrade module.  And taking BFT as a skill.  And possibly even ManAA.  Does this take away from other important skills?  Of course it would.  And that's the beauty of the skill and upgrade modules systems.  You have to decide for yourself what's important to you.  Do you want better AA?  Then pick skills and upgrades that help with AA.  But do you really want those non-AA related skills that you'd lose?  Well, that's the dilemma.  You have to make choices and live with them.  But it sounds more like you want to pick your best torp boat skills and then complain like a screeching banshee about how bad your AA is and how you want CVs nerfed into oblivion or removed or whatever.  Anything but learning to adapt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
69
[MHG]
[MHG]
Members
279 posts
4,773 battles
5 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Try mounting the slot 3 AA upgrade module.  And taking BFT as a skill.  And possibly even ManAA.  Does this take away from other important skills?  Of course it would.  And that's the beauty of the skill and upgrade modules systems.  You have to decide for yourself what's important to you.  Do you want better AA?  Then pick skills and upgrades that help with AA.  But do you really want those non-AA related skills that you'd lose?  Well, that's the dilemma.  You have to make choices and live with them.  But it sounds more like you want to pick your best torp boat skills and then complain like a screeching banshee about how bad your AA is and how you want CVs nerfed into oblivion or removed or whatever.  Anything but learning to adapt.

Ok yeah but to be fair- mounting and taking all the AA skills available on a Shim will make almost no difference in the AA capability of the ship. 2 extra flak puffs just make for more pretty fireworks. The continual DPS is painfully low so increasing it would not do much if anything. Those skill points and modules are better served where the ship has actual strength- torps and concealment.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
75
[EPEEN]
Members
39 posts
15 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Try mounting the slot 3 AA upgrade module.  And taking BFT as a skill.  And possibly even ManAA.  Does this take away from other important skills?  Of course it would.  And that's the beauty of the skill and upgrade modules systems.  You have to decide for yourself what's important to you.  Do you want better AA?  Then pick skills and upgrades that help with AA.  But do you really want those non-AA related skills that you'd lose?  Well, that's the dilemma.  You have to make choices and live with them.  But it sounds more like you want to pick your best torp boat skills and then complain like a screeching banshee about how bad your AA is and how you want CVs nerfed into oblivion or removed or whatever.  Anything but learning to adapt.

I have tried full AA build and its crap that's the point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,131
[SALVO]
Members
21,713 posts
22,016 battles
24 minutes ago, Cakeman826 said:

Ok yeah but to be fair- mounting and taking all the AA skills available on a Shim will make almost no difference in the AA capability of the ship. 2 extra flak puffs just make for more pretty fireworks. The continual DPS is painfully low so increasing it would not do much if anything. Those skill points and modules are better served where the ship has actual strength- torps and concealment.

I agree with you on the slot 3 AA module.  And I think that one or more of the CCs have suggested that they should change that particular module, because flak puffs don't mean that much vs very good CV players who can avoid them.  They suggest something that improves the constant DPS AA output.

Also, the Shimmy can take the AA gun upgrade for slot 6 as well that DOES improve AA DPS for short, medium, and long range AA.

But it's also worth noting that I've seen some DDs that I wouldn't have expected to have pretty good AA and getting surprising results.  The Z-52 and the Shimmy are two.

Edited by Crucis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,131
[SALVO]
Members
21,713 posts
22,016 battles
1 minute ago, Audioknight said:

I have tried full AA build and its crap that's the point.

I've seen Shimmies shoot down 20 or so planes in carrier battles, so it can't be all that horrible.  Are you making good use of AA sector switching?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
352
Beta Testers
1,285 posts
3,690 battles
1 hour ago, Audioknight said:

So sick of Cv vs Shimakaze. It's the damage you take per salvo is stupid. So every game i try to avoid planes at all cost as long as i can. But for the love god when they find you and can delete you in 2 salvo's come on. Yes i dodge and turn and change directions and speed and all that. And keep AA off till i have to turn it on which doesn't do crap anyway. Oh yeah and smoke what a joke that is as they just nuke you in it too, and smoke is a radar magnate. So if i live after all that i try as fast as i can to get to a different part of the map because the Cv will be right back at me in like 20 seconds with that crazy plane speed. I also try to stay close to good AA crusier's if i can too. Read War gaming's own description of CV at the game start screen. It's says their primary Job is to target (LARGE SURFACE AREA SHIPS). Cv's are not supposed to be this effective against the dd class. At this point you just don't have enough counter play as a Torp DD with crap AA. So if a Cv wants you gone your gone. I know some of you will be like play another DD or a different class. Why should i have to. This is my main and all the time spent to level it all the money spent on the game. Balance needs to be done for Torp boat DD's vs Cv's. Three or four of the gunboat DD's do fine with thier AA against CV. Please give some love to the Torp boat DD's.

 

Yes, destroyers suffer when they try to solo warrior now.  You have to pick the proper time to do that.

DDs have the speed and agility to dodge most attacks from a CV.  You can dodge torps easy, bombs easy and yes, even rockets easy.  Hint: pretend rockets are torpedoes and do what you would do to dodge them.  Point your nose at the incoming planes.  Wiggle that behind.  You'll dodge much of the damage.  The CV shouldn't be taking you out in two salvos.

Even if you assume that a ship has a primary mission, they can also be effective at secondary missions.  DDs are certainly effective against all other ship types, with the caveat that some DDs have handicaps (such as deepwater torpedes vs other DDs and CLs).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
75
[EPEEN]
Members
39 posts
18 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I've seen Shimmies shoot down 20 or so planes in carrier battles, so it can't be all that horrible.  Are you making good use of AA sector switching?

yes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,131
[SALVO]
Members
21,713 posts
22,016 battles
15 minutes ago, Gasboy said:

Yes, destroyers suffer when they try to solo warrior now.  You have to pick the proper time to do that.

DDs have the speed and agility to dodge most attacks from a CV.  You can dodge torps easy, bombs easy and yes, even rockets easy.  Hint: pretend rockets are torpedoes and do what you would do to dodge them.  Point your nose at the incoming planes.  Wiggle that behind.  You'll dodge much of the damage.  The CV shouldn't be taking you out in two salvos.

Even if you assume that a ship has a primary mission, they can also be effective at secondary missions.  DDs are certainly effective against all other ship types, with the caveat that some DDs have handicaps (such as deepwater torpedes vs other DDs and CLs).

Another thing a DD can do is to watch where the rocket planes go after they make their first attack run, and follow them.  You can make life difficult on rocket planes by making them waste time trying to set up their attacks.  And if they try to make a tight U turn to make a quick follow up attack, they may find themselves too close to the DD before their rockets become active, or too close for their rockets to fully aim in, which would decrease the number of hits you take (if any).

So, yes, you're quite right that there are counter plays that DDs can do against CV plane attack, if they just bother to try using them!   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×