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Apexalpha

CVs in Co-op

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I have a major beef with the decisions made concerning what the devs consider a "fair fight" when it comes to co-op. I consider co-op to be more of a training tool than true game-play. Having the bots substitute BBs for player CVs at tier VI and lower just hands the bots a win. How is this not obvious? The low level CVs only contribute spotting. Their offense is a joke. Just got out of a match with 2 CVs  in our line up and they just watched the rest of us die before sharing our ignoble fate. 

You have no idea how much restraint I am using to temper my speech.

Until there are bot CVs, I strongly suggest a 1 CV ceiling in co-op.  

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One more BB is not a big problem if green DD know their job😉

You can do some good damage /XP with cv If the battle is longer then 10 minutes.....and co-op "usually" never went over 5 

Soon cv will disappear from coop. 

I like new cv rework, I only play co-op, and taking them to co-op is pointless.

In operations otherwise......😉

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I would argue that a loss in co-op with a CV means the rest of your team didn't do their jobs.  One extra bot BB is nothing special.  

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28 minutes ago, PrairiePlayer said:

I would argue that a loss in co-op with a CV means the rest of your team didn't do their jobs.  One extra bot BB is nothing special.  

I would agree with this.  TBH, I haven't seen an increase in losses since the rework in coop (tier 4-8 CVs only).

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2 hours ago, Apexalpha said:

I have a major beef with the decisions made concerning what the devs consider a "fair fight" when it comes to co-op. I consider co-op to be more of a training tool than true game-play. Having the bots substitute BBs for player CVs at tier VI and lower just hands the bots a win. How is this not obvious? The low level CVs only contribute spotting. Their offense is a joke. Just got out of a match with 2 CVs  in our line up and they just watched the rest of us die before sharing our ignoble fate. 

You have no idea how much restraint I am using to temper my speech.

Until there are bot CVs, I strongly suggest a 1 CV ceiling in co-op.  

If you're having to greatly restrain yourself over this particular subject, then maybe you need to step back and calm down.  

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While I think it's super sloppy on WG's part to still not have bot CVs months after CV rework, I think I like it better this way. No bot CVs running around on the backline dragging out games...

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Heck, I've always liked seeing a CV in co-op..it makes damage farming easier when you've got an extra BB on the other side to hit.

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There are two main factors that affect co-op gameplay when CV's are involved.  The tier of the CV and the number of human players on the team.

On the one hand, the absolute worst scenario is when there are two tier 4 CV's and only one or two other human players.  The ability of a tier 4 CV to damage the enemy is so anemic that they might as well not even be in the game.  When there is only one or two humans who can actually be effective standing against 8 enemies, they will have to CARRY HARD.  I've seen real slaughter and it is no fun.

On the other hand, I have seen some good, effective game play from tier 6 carriers (I do not own one).  The team can still be placed in a difficult situation with a bot heavy team, but the tier 6 carriers can at least be helpful.  I have seen some absolutely brilliant CV play in the tier 6 operations.  CV's are a very welcome addition to the team in the operations.

On the gripping hand, tier 8 carriers, even in the hands of a potato such as myself, can absolutely contribute to the effectiveness of the team.  I'm not what you would call a good CV driver but I am still able to provide meaningful assistance to the team.  I can do decent raw damage and help take out the Reds.  When the CV is being driven by a good skipper, the gameplay can be a sight to behold.  I have seen some great games by CV drivers at this tier.  I have even seen a carry or two.  The negative impact of having two CV's and/or a bot heavy team seems to be significantly reduced at this tier.

CV's at tier 10 have been no detriment to the team at all.  l have yet to see meaningful, negative impact on the capabilities of a team when tier 10 CV's are involved.

Just my view from the cheap seats.  :Smile_Default:

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Took out my new Lexington in its second co-op game yesterday.  Was low tier so not expecting much.

 

Do a great work of spotting.

 

Go to say something but look at the roster.

 

Full slate of bots.

 

&

 I can't aim torps for the life of me. :fish_palm:

 

18 minutes of my life I'm not getting back.

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1 hour ago, Anonymous50 said:

Took out my new Lexington in its second co-op game yesterday.  Was low tier so not expecting much.

 

Do a great work of spotting.

 

Go to say something but look at the roster.

 

Full slate of bots.

 

&

 I can't aim torps for the life of me. :fish_palm:

 

18 minutes of my life I'm not getting back.

Unlocked Lexington a few days ago. I already had all the prems so had some grasp of T8 CV play. I was pleasantly surprised that the Lex provided an experience not unlike and arguably better than Enterprise. I'm glad I got her.

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8 hours ago, Mikebello said:

One more BB is not a big problem if green DD know their job😉

You can do some good damage /XP with cv If the battle is longer then 10 minutes.....and co-op "usually" never went over 5 

Soon cv will disappear from coop. 

I like new cv rework, I only play co-op, and taking them to co-op is pointless.

In operations otherwise......😉

With how high the CV queues in OPs have been recently and pretty consistently.  They should design a CV centric OP,  maybe max 3 CVs.  It should help PVE'rs have more to do and stay around the game longer.

 

But the fact that the original OPs still aren't back,  you sort of have no expectations for content at all whether you play CVs or not at all.

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34 minutes ago, PtooieBoat said:

With how high the CV queues in OPs have been recently and pretty consistently.  They should design a CV centric OP,  maybe max 3 CVs.  It should help PVE'rs have more to do and stay around the game longer.

 

But the fact that the original OPs still aren't back,  you sort of have no expectations for content at all whether you play CVs or not at all.

Excellent idea!  Midway or Coral Sea?  Any others come to mind?

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@Apexalpha, you can always division up with buddy, tip the odd's in your favor? That way you don't have to rely so much on other players to do their part.

The extra BB on the red team is actually good, you can get in more damage!

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One thing I like most in pve game is: all bots start to maneuver for evade planes and show full broadside to green ships for the fun of friendly BB 😀

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23 hours ago, Captain_Slattery said:

Excellent idea!  Midway or Coral Sea?  Any others come to mind?

With balance always on mind,  I don't know if WG should touch historical ones.

 

From lessons and feedback from previous scenarios,  take what is good, fun and works and find a way to mesh it together.

 

And on the other side of queues and players who have no interest in CVs,  you can't require a CV(s) in battle to win.  It sort to has to be a middle ground with CVs where you can get more than 1 in an OP battle,  but can also go without.   It would have to designed as a secondary objective,  where CVs make it easier and would be extremely challenging without one.  It should strictly be attached to additional stars,  but the primary objective(to prevent mission failure) should be something else.   

   

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In co-op the only way to play cv (for me) is find a BB not near a cruiser and attack her until the battle is over. 

Usually battle end before or just after the BB is dead.

In cv I feel very useless in co-op.

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8 hours ago, Mikebello said:

In co-op the only way to play cv (for me) is find a BB not near a cruiser and attack her until the battle is over. 

Usually battle end before or just after the BB is dead.

In cv I feel very useless in co-op.

Please spot - it really helps.

 

Played a coop with a Shima last night where an Audacious focused on the one ship in front of them.

Had 2 bot cruisers and I'm the only DD.

Basically, 2/3 of the map was unspotted when 4 of the red came down on me. 

If he/she had just done a sweep to spot the rest, we might have won.

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Players should be able to deal with a single useless CV and extra bot BB. If not there needs to be some serious consideration going on by those players who consistently finish at the bottom of the list. 

The problem comes in when there are two CVs on an 8-man team. Two useless ships and two additional bot BBs can be difficult to overcome if the green team doesn't play conservatively.  Add green bots, AFKers or potatoes playing HE sniper with a Tirpitz to the mix and things can go downhill for the players very quickly.

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14 hours ago, Anonymous50 said:

Please spot - it really helps.

 

 

Spot in co-op is quite useless.

Bot charge in and after one minute are all spotted even without a carrier.

Also in co-op only way to get XP/silver is do damage

Sometimes there is not even time to cap.

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17 hours ago, Gen_Saris said:

Players should be able to deal with a single useless CV and extra bot BB. If not there needs to be some serious consideration going on by those players who consistently finish at the bottom of the list. 

The problem comes in when there are two CVs on an 8-man team. Two useless ships and two additional bot BBs can be difficult to overcome if the green team doesn't play conservatively.  Add green bots, AFKers or potatoes playing HE sniper with a Tirpitz to the mix and things can go downhill for the players very quickly.

Honestly, I don't waste my time on 2-CV matches anymore, especially if there are green bots too. I plot an autopilot course and go make a sandwich or check my email, and start a new match when the "Defeat" screen loads. Sad but true.

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4 hours ago, Mikebello said:

Spot in co-op is quite useless.

Bot charge in and after one minute are all spotted even without a carrier.

Also in co-op only way to get XP/silver is do damage

Sometimes there is not even time to cap.

I would disagree because if all the bot locations are noted early (pre charge), the game tends to go much better.

Provides no value to the CV player though, so I tend not to expect it.  It may even hurt the CV player because the game can end even faster.

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1 minute ago, Kaigun_Chusa said:

Honestly, I don't waste my time on 2-CV matches anymore, especially if there are green bots too. I plot an autopilot course and go make a sandwich or check my email, and start a new match when the "Defeat" screen loads. Sad but true.

Not what I'd call fair to your team mates, even the useless CV scrubs.

I do understand your frustration, I feel it too, but hey, at least try.

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17 hours ago, Gen_Saris said:

Players should be able to deal with a single useless CV and extra bot BB. If not there needs to be some serious consideration going on by those players who consistently finish at the bottom of the list. 

The problem comes in when there are two CVs on an 8-man team. Two useless ships and two additional bot BBs can be difficult to overcome if the green team doesn't play conservatively.  Add green bots, AFKers or potatoes playing HE sniper with a Tirpitz to the mix and things can go downhill for the players very quickly.

This is on POINT.  

Additionally when the BOTS outnumber the Humans on your team and of those humans 2 are CVs well lets just say the ODDS of a successful outcome became less favorable.  

As it has been said in previous threads  CVs lower then Tier VIII are essentially "training ships" so why not reduce the CV to only 1 in all tiers ?

    

 

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