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Kerabatsos

Bring of the Submarines!

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Subs that spawn at random points in the map with a top submerged speed of about 10 knots.  Awesomesauce...

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49 minutes ago, Kerabatsos said:

might as well, cant be any worse the CVs screwing the game up :cap_popcorn:

No matter how bad things get, just wait awhile. They can always get worse.  :cap_cool:

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Did any of you ever play Steel ocean? Did you see the crowd that subs attracted?

And you want that here???? :Smile_amazed:

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18 minutes ago, awiggin said:

Did any of you ever play Steel ocean? Did you see the crowd that subs attracted?

And you want that here???? :Smile_amazed:

Would make it easier to skip login into WoWs completely.

People think PvP subs would be like those from the Halloween event.

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10 hours ago, So_lt_Goes said:

No matter how bad things get, just wait awhile. They can always get worse.  :cap_cool:

Engineers that work in the field and anyone that has ever had to operate something knows this is the truth.

The only time it can't get any worse is when someone is shoveling dirt on your face.

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10 hours ago, Erebthoron said:

People think PvP subs would be like those from the Halloween event.

Only if you assume that Subs would be tossed in without rebalancing the other classes, which is stupid. Adding subs requires a total rebalance of the DD class, to a slight degree CV's, and to a major degree Cruisers. But understand, this game is *inherently* broken with an even number of classes and basically impossible to balance without 1 class ending up overpowered and another underpowered. It *has* to work that way mathematically and there is no room for argument on that. This game *needs* subs or it needs to remove a class. And Subs can work. They work fine in Steel Oceans and moreover they can work fine here; you just cannot assume that they and DD's fullfill the same role.

DD's counter Subs, and lose the ability to counter BB's. Now Subs counter BB's and, I would argue, CV's need to be buffed towards BB's.

Basically it goes:

CV's Counter BB's and CA/CL's (makes sense given both are larger, poorer manuver-ers with a low amount of AA guns per displacement tonnage; as such the AA power on both ships needs to be tweaked and DFAA removed from almost all CA/CL's)

BB's Counter CA/CL's and DD's (makes sense; they are the biggest, heaviest armed and armoured and should counter ALL the surface ships; as such their accuracy against DD's should be improved as well as their damage against them rebuffed to the pre-10% only levels).

CA/CL's Counter DD's and Subs (Again makes sense; Cruiser outclass DD's, and likewise often carried Anti-Sub equipment)

DD's Counter Subs and CV's (also makes sense as duh, DD's are the king of ASW and given their higher proportion of AAA to Tonnage, high manuverability, and small size, make for a better counter to CV's. All DD's should get DFAA, no more rocket planes, and reduced range/power torps (5-6 km on the longest range and a 1/2 to 1/3 the damage they are; DD's are supposed to be ESCORTS and support craft).

Subs Counter CV's and BB's; (makes sense; they are the ninja sneakers of the sea and take the size and armour away from a BB and their small size and fast diving makes CV's challenging to use against them (no more rocket planes)).

And for the umpteenth time: we have unlimited torpedoes, stealth field generators, fires put out with the click of a button, engines that can be repaired in 30 seconds after a 16" hole is bore through them, ships that start and stop on a dime, torpedoes that are never duds, torps that travel ~50x their real speeds and at least 2 to 3 times their real ranges, but it is the SPEED of subs you all balk at? You can accept ALL that and more, but nope, Subs need to have 100% real speeds? Give me a [edited]break. 23 knots surfaced/15 knots submerged (Tiers 4 to Tier 6), 26 knots surfaced/22 knots submerged (T7 and T8), and 30 knots surfaced/27 knots submerged (T9 and T10). It's that simple. +-2 knots pending on the nation but that's about as far as it needs to be thought. Fast enough to outrun a BB on the surface, too slow to outrun a BB submerged, thus requiring speeding on the surface (thus spotable by DD's and CA/CL's who can counter them) to get into position, waiting for the BB and making a super close (1-2 km) strike but the BB's Can and will run away if it survives, i.e. how a *real* rogue works in every, single other game that exists (either you kill the tank in the first lightening strike or he rus (limps) away.) It is NOT that hard to do and unlike the current system it actually makes sense. So if DD's get stealth field generators, CA/CL's get the ability to print new ships, BB's can put out fires with the press of a button, CV's can launch planes with 0 preparation time, then Sub's 1 special physic breaking ability will be unrealistic speeds.

And all those people that play DD"s for the *gameplay* will switch to subs (which are appropriately the ninja boats) and those that play DD"s out of a love of particular ships can and still will, but will do so in a different, more realistic capacity which, if you LOVE those real classes should be a pro, not a con, as that is the capacity that most resembles reality of history. Remember, in the entirety of WWI and WWII, exactly *6* destroyer launched torpedoes struck BB's: 3 against Scharnhorst and 3 against Yamashiro.

Edited by _RC1138

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The entire point of the Update at 8.0 was to speed the game up !  The more un balanced and faster you get destroyed is the sales logic behind arcade shooters to get you to spend more money on PT or premium ships or the current meta consumables....

PVP submarines, and I like the idea of their introduction as a serious ship class (not the Halloween nonsense), would as said above create a multitude of technical and gameplay challenges that would slow the game down; not. speed it up !

Imagine the cost of animating Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)?  Or, just getting ASW to even work in the game itself....  Now, that Carriers are OP, imagine a DD sailing in circles, in open water,  simply trying to find the sub !  Ism't this forum calling lone DD's "stupid game play"?  And yet, that is now they have to find Subs, by trolling with sonar/hydro and depth charges..... 

A great idea now that we have carriers that no longer are support ships and the game needs something to counter them !  And subs, would do just that because a submerged sub can't be ween by aircraft !!!!  And, subs had snorkels that allowed them to operate under water and spotting a snorkel was just about impossible.......   We have ex-sub vets that are drooling at the thought.

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12 hours ago, Kerabatsos said:

might as well, cant be any worse the CVs screwing the game up :cap_popcorn:

Sadly, as I have learned in real life, things can always get worse. :fish_nerv:

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Sub would be interesting for one simple reason. The best ships to hunt subs are DD's which since the population is down due to cv's could lead to some epic plays due to lack of cvs. Since the Sub is smaller then even a dd when on the surface they would be able to sneak up on cv and own them. Subs of ww2 were able to get up to 25kts on the surface and 9-10kts underwater. Though the Germans actually had a sub that was 16kts on surface and 17kts underwater at periscope depth.

But to break it down by nation.

USN would have very bland middle of the road boats, short range slow speed torps with high reload rate and low damage. Think USN CV torps.

IJN would have faster harder hitting torps but would have to be on the surface longer

KM would have fast on surface and fasted under water speeds At t9-10 the torps would be deepwater torps and thus do massive damage to anything not a dd.

French would probably be limited to premium only ship but would come with dual203mm guns

Uk would be similar to the USN

Russian would be somewhere between KM and UK

IJN would have a premium t10 sub that is slow but could surface and launch an automated dive bomb attack on a target and launch 8 torps in quick succession

KM would have a premium,  a sub that came with a bunch of aa guns 20mm and 37mm and a dfaa of 200%, this would be a t8 ship fyi.

 

All subs t8 and above would get like 1 repair party 2 with SI and 3 with premium. All would come with hydro. And for the USN they would also get a speed boost for surface speeds called thinning the mix(poor whiskey into the fuel) Gain 5% speed which could stack with speed flags for a total of 10% or and extra 2kts on the surface.

 

Now there are a few other things that could be done with subs. KM introduced the first acoustic soundtracking torp. Super slow, but could be fired at any depth at a range of 5.7km but would be allowed say a 20-degree or so range of alteration in the course to the target. Another idea many nations worked with was magnetic detonators so that the torpedo could run under the keel and thus explode under the ship breaking its spine.

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1 hour ago, Asym_KS said:

The entire point of the Update at 8.0 was to speed the game up !  The more un balanced and faster you get destroyed is the sales logic behind arcade shooters to get you to spend more money on PT or premium ships or the current meta consumables....

PVP submarines, and I like the idea of their introduction as a serious ship class (not the Halloween nonsense), would as said above create a multitude of technical and gameplay challenges that would slow the game down; not. speed it up !

Imagine the cost of animating Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)?  Or, just getting ASW to even work in the game itself....  Now, that Carriers are OP, imagine a DD sailing in circles, in open water,  simply trying to find the sub !  Ism't this forum calling lone DD's "stupid game play"?  And yet, that is now they have to find Subs, by trolling with sonar/hydro and depth charges..... 

A great idea now that we have carriers that no longer are support ships and the game needs something to counter them !  And subs, would do just that because a submerged sub can't be ween by aircraft !!!!  And, subs had snorkels that allowed them to operate under water and spotting a snorkel was just about impossible.......   We have ex-sub vets that are drooling at the thought.

asw would litterlaly be the simplest thing and most of the time you would not see it as it was mostly on the back of the ship, but as this is mostly 100% a dd thing I guess the occasional thing popping off you may cause a bit of an issue till the client goes 64 bit and thus has access to more memory and better gpu performance.

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Folks while we do understand there are concerns around carriers, there are plenty of available threads to discuss this topic.  Submarines if added to the game would come well after we are a lot more comfortable where CVs are in terms of balance. 

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