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iDuckman

Main gun data needed -- Getting close

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The Gun Ammunution Table is nearly complete.  While we don't have data on every ship, the costs are pretty consistent by rifle caliber and can be extrapolated.

These calibers we have no data on, or need confirmation :

  • 120mm/45 popguns on RM Leone (not released yet)
  • 130 mm/50 B-2LM rifles on VMF Kiev, Tashkent
  • 152mm/53 on VMF Murmansk
  • 152 mm/57 MK-5-bis on VMF Lazo, M.Kutuzov
  • 203 mm/50 3rd Year Type 2 GO mod. E on IJN Mogami (probably 24)
  • 203 mm/55 Mle 1934 on MN Saint-Louis
  • 305mm/40 on IJN Mikasa (likely same as Kawachi [ack! ptui!])
  • 305 mm/45 Skoda K10 on KM Viribus Unitis
  • 330 mm/52 1932 on MN Dunkerque

If possible, please reply with the ship and number and total cost of shells fired in a battle.

The current (or at least recent) gun database is the OP of this thread:

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/187969-crowd-scour-the-search-for-gun-ammo-costs/

Found so far:

Spoiler
  • 105 mm L/45 MPL C/06 on KM Kolberg  3
  • 113mm/45 - on RN Daring  9
  • 120 mm/50 wz. 34/36 Bofors on ORP Blyskawica - 8
  • 127mm/38 Mk. 38 - USN Gearing and PA Yueyang  10
  • 127 mm/50 3rd Year Type mod D on IJN Shimakaze  10
  • 128mm/45 rifles on KM Z-46, Z-52  10
  • 130 mm/50 B-2LM rifles on VMF Grozevoi  9
  • 130mm/55 on VMF Udaloi, Tashkent, Khabarovsk  10
  • 139mm/40 on MN Aigle  11
  • 139mm/50 on Le Terrible  12
  • 150 mm L/48 Tbts LC/36 rifles on KM Gaede  9 (!)
  • 150mm/60 on VMF (ex-KM) Adm. Makarov  15 (same as Nurnberg)
  • 152 mm/45 Canet naval gun on VMF Aurora, Diana  10
  • 152mm/55 on RM Duca degli Abruzzi  15
  • 152mm/50 on RN Neptune  20
  • 155mm/60 on IJN Mogami  16
  • 203mm/60 on KM Tiers VII-X cruisers -- Prinz Eugen (VIII)  30
  • 210mm/45 on KM Yorck  25
  • 283mm/54.5 on KM Scharnhorst  60
  • 305mm/54 on VMF Kronshtadt  150
  • 305mm/50 on USN Alaska  125
  • 305mm/61 on VMF Stalingrad  225
  • 356 mm/45 Mk VII on RN King George IV  90
  • 380mm/52 on KM Bis, Gneis, Tirpitz  120
  • 406mm/50 on USN Iowa and Missouri  250 (same as Montana)
  • 406 mm L/52 Drh LC/34 on KM Fred de Grosse  250
  • 410 mm/50 10th Year Type on IJN Izumo  250
  • 420mm/48 on KM Große Kurfurst  300
  • 457mm/45 on RN Conqueror  400
  • 457mm/47 on USN Georgia  400
  • 305, 356, 406, 457 on the VMF (Russian) BBs including Nikolai and Okt. Rev.
  • 120, 152, 320, 381 on RM
  • anything - guns or torpedoes - on KM Roon and Hindenburg, and torps on KM battleships
  • anything - guns or torpedoes - on Haida, Perth, Blyskawica


 

We also need torpedo data..

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Edited by iDuckman

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On 4/21/2019 at 3:59 PM, iDuckman said:

The Gun Ammunution Table is nearly complete

Now that you started the ball rolling you might wanna add a torp & plane cost table for comparison.

After my nightly grinds I'll try to run the top 6 tonight (don't have any of the others) to give you some numbers to work with but if I have to use torps on the 1st 2 I might not be able to figure it correctly but will submit them to you to try to figure out 1 way or the other.

Edit: Disregard...wasn't aware torp & shell costs were separated in the ammo costs in the post battle summary...that make things a lot easier :-)

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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Wow.... There is even an ammunition bias.  Look at how cheap the Russian shells are compared to the other shells of the same caliber.  Russian shells are basically cheaper at every single stage than the other nations.   Thats a lot of extra money. 

 

406 mm AP, HE RN 120Credits
406 mm AP, HE USN 150Credits
406 mm AP, HE KM 250Credits
Edited by megahugenoob

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Your wish is my command!

I have Maass, 155 Mogami, Kron and Monty - I'm playing now, so I'll update as I get results.

One Q - You said 418's for Italy - do you mean Roma's 381s? I'm not aware of any Italian 418s.

Maass: 403 HE shells, 3627 credits. 9 per shell.

Kron: 213, 31950 credits. 150 per shell.

155 Mogami: 390 shells, 6240 credits. 16 per shell.

Monty AP: 177 shells, 44250 credits. 250 per shell.

Monty HE: 66 shells, 16500 credits. 250 per shell.  *The Monty difference appears to be debunked*

Roma: 51 shells, 6120 credits. 120 per shell.

457 Conq: 80 shells, 32000 credits. 400 per shell. 

 

That's everything I have in the list. I might get Z23 in the next few days - if I do, I'll add her data.

Edited by TheOmegaDuck
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4 minutes ago, megahugenoob said:

Wow.... There is even an ammunition bias.  Look at how cheap the Russian shells are compared to the other shells of the same caliber.  Russian shells are basically cheaper at every single stage than the other nations.   Thats a lot of extra money. 

 

406 mm AP, HE RN 120Credits
406 mm AP, HE USN 150Credits
406 mm AP, HE KM 250Credits

I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from, going from the list the VMF (Russian) shells are roughly the same price as their equal caliber peers.   The only real outliers are the ones that are significantly more expensive than their peers.  The 406's on Freddy and the 310's on Azuma stand out as being extremely pricy despite their caliber.

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2 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from, going from the list the VMF (Russian) shells are roughly the same price as their equal caliber peers.   The only real outliers are the ones that are significantly more expensive than their peers.  The 406's on Freddy and the 310's on Azuma stand out as being extremely pricy despite their caliber.

The 203s are bad, as well as the 406's  I guess I dont understand why they are attempting to create a price difference.    Are they actually going to present some information that demonstrates why a Russian 203 mm shell is only 25 credits per and a USN one is 30?  OR the 406 on russian boats are 120, whereas the Kriegsmarine is 250?  Why?     TO me, if your on a T10 BB, the price should be equal.  Scale the shell price based upon the tier of the ship. Or at the very least have a formula it follows.  1 credits per each MM of gun size or something like that.

 

203 mm AP, HE RN, MN 25Credits
203 mm AP, HE USN 30Credits
203 mm AP SHS USN CA 45Credits

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48 minutes ago, megahugenoob said:

The 203s are bad, as well as the 406's  I guess I dont understand why they are attempting to create a price difference.    Are they actually going to present some information that demonstrates why a Russian 203 mm shell is only 25 credits per and a USN one is 30?  OR the 406 on russian boats are 120, whereas the Kriegsmarine is 250?  Why?     TO me, if your on a T10 BB, the price should be equal.  Scale the shell price based upon the tier of the ship. Or at the very least have a formula it follows.  1 credits per each MM of gun size or something like that.

 

203 mm AP, HE RN, MN 25Credits
203 mm AP, HE USN 30Credits
203 mm AP SHS USN CA 45Credits

Oh, I see what happened.  You're confusing the RN (Royal Navy) with the Russians.  The Russians don't have any 203mm armed cruisers on the list, nor do we have the data for the Russian BBs yet.

As far as ammo goes I see why WG changed the ammo costs.  I mean sure it might not be the most scientific way of doing it, but in general the more modern shells are more expensive.  But it definitely has nothing to do with Russian bias.

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I can try something on Tuesday or Wednesday. If you don’t have anything by then. 

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1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Now that you started the ball rolling you might wanna add a torp & plane cost table for comparison.

You haven't looked at the wiki.  The plane costs are complete (except for CVs that aren't out yet).  Torp table is partial at best.  Their costs are more heavily dependent on the model and the ship they're mounted on.  But both are present.

This thread contains the current torp database:

 

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1 hour ago, TheOmegaDuck said:

One Q - You said 418's for Italy - do you mean Roma's 381s? I'm not aware of any Italian 418s.

Yeah, sorry, Roma 381.  I'll integrate your data later tonight.  Thanks!

 

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Duca d'Aosta          
           
Guns: 152 mm/53  OTO 1929      
152 mm proiettili HP          
152 mm proiettili AP          
Total Shells:  216    Cost: 3240    Each: 15
           
Torpedo Tubes: 533 mm tubo lanciasiluri      
Torpedo 533 mm Si 270        
Total Torpedos: 6    Cost: 600    Each: 100

 

No distinction in cost between HP and AP shells ... they were totaled together.

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13 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

You haven't looked at the wiki

Your right...I don't. Was just offering to help out.

As I've had enough credits for anything I've needed for quite some time what any ammo is costing me doesn't enter my consideration parameters.

Looks like you got a couple of your #s already so I'll be sure to check back before I start to make sure i'm not overloading you w/data you already have.

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42 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

Oh, I see what happened.  You're confusing the RN (Royal Navy) with the Russians.  The Russians don't have any 203mm armed cruisers on the list, nor do we have the data for the Russian BBs yet.

As far as ammo goes I see why WG changed the ammo costs.  I mean sure it might not be the most scientific way of doing it, but in general the more modern shells are more expensive.  But it definitely has nothing to do with Russian bias.

You are right. RN to me was Russian Navy.  Good catch

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11 minutes ago, megahugenoob said:

You are right. RN to me was Russian Navy.  Good catch

No worries!  It's easy to mix stuff up every once in a while.  Especially since the abbreviations for the lesser known navies aren't all too well known.

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23 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Looks like you got a couple of your #s already so I'll be sure to check back before I start to make sure i'm not overloading you w/data you already have.

I have e.g. Maass, but costs have been known to change by tier.  I'd like a high tier 128mm KM DD to confirm.  TIA for what you can provide.

 


  • MN - Marine Nationale - France
  • RM - Regia Marina - Italy
  • VMF - something something - Russia
  • RAN/RCN - Royal Australian/Canadian Navy

 

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5 hours ago, iDuckman said:

The Gun Ammunution Table is nearly complete.  While we don't have data on every ship, the costs are pretty consistent by rifle caliber and can be extrapolated.

These calibers we have no data on:

  • 128mm/45 rifles on KM DDs (Tiers VI-X)
    • Maass (VII)  9
  • 150mm/48 rifles on KM DDs (Gaede, Z-29, Z-23)
  • 155mm/60 on IJN Mogami  16
  • 283mm/54 on KM Scharnhorst
  • 305mm/54 on VMF Kronshtadt  150
  • 305mm/61 on VMF Stalingrad
  • 380mm/52 on KM Bis, Gneis, Tirpitz
  • 406mm/50 on USN Iowa and Missouri
  • 420mm/48 on KM FdG and Große Kurfurst
  • 457mm/45 on RN Conqueror  400
  • 457mm/47 on USN Georgia
  • 120, 152, 320, 381 on RM anything (where are the proud Italians?)
  • 305, 356, 406, 457 on the VMF (Russian) BBs including Nikolai and Okt. Rev.

If possible, please reply with the ship and number and total cost of shells fired in a battle.

The current (or at least recent) gun database is the OP of in this thread:

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/187969-crowd-scour-the-search-for-gun-ammo-costs/


We also need torpedo data..

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Stalingrad - 225

 

Bismarck / Gneisenau / Derpitz - 120

Scharnhorst - Looks like 60, but I'm not 100% on that.

Missouri - 250

Kurfurst - 300

 

Edited by LT_Rusty_SWO

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1 hour ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

Kurfurst - 300 

The 420mm?

Quote

Scharnhorst - Looks like 60, but I'm not 100% on that.

Graf Spee has earlier rifles of similar caliber (/52 instead of /54.5) at 60, so it's likely, but I'll await confirmation.

Good progress tonight!

Edited by iDuckman

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Kreml (457mm/48 B-58) - 400

Georgia (457mm/47 Mk A) - 400

Sovetsky Soyuz (406mm/50 MK-1) - 120

Vladivostok/Lenin/Sinop (406mm/45 Model 1915) - 120

Izmail/Pyotr Velikiy (356mm/52 Model 1913) - 90

Scharnhorst (283mm L/54.4 Drh LC/34) - 60

Giulio Cesare (320mm/44 M1934) - 55

Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya/Gangut/Knyaz Suvorov (305mm/52 Model 1907) - 40

The Nikolai uses the same guns as the last three, but I don't own it, so I can't verify 100% the shell cost.

 

 

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9 hours ago, iDuckman said:

The 420mm?

Graf Spee has earlier rifles of similar caliber (/52 instead of /54.5) at 60, so it's likely, but I'll await confirmation.

Good progress tonight!

 

Thing with Scharnhorst is that I only have 2 battles with it, and I can't recall if I used torpedoes or not. Use of torpedoes throws off the nice even division of shell cost by main battery rounds fired. One battle had a nice even result of 60 credits, the other one was like 74.234125416137536345 or something. I suspect that the one that came out weird had some torpedoes launched.

 

As for GK... I genuinely don't remember if I have 420 or 457 mounted. I think it's the triple turret setup, but I'm not 100% positive. I'll check when I get home from work.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Dianeces said:

 

The Nikolai uses the same guns as the last three, but I don't own it, so I can't verify 100% the shell cost.

 

 

 

I can verify that one as well when I get home.

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I just noticed there's no notice of the KM 203mm SKC ammo on the chart, but it's also not included in the request list.  Is it needed or is that an oversight?

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1 hour ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

Use of torpedoes throws off the nice even division of shell cost by main battery rounds fired.

Fortunately we don't have to dead with that.  The Ammunition Resupply breakdown (hover the mouse) lists shells (combined types) and torpedoes separately.  It would be a real pain if they were combined!

 

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10 minutes ago, Kenjister said:

I just noticed there's no notice of the KM 203mm SKC ammo on the chart, but it's also not included in the request list.  Is it needed or is that an oversight?

I think you've just made a great catch!  It's in the database, but looking now I don't believe the values.   I can't say why it's not in the table.

I'll fix it!

 

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9 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Fortunately we don't have to dead with that.  The Ammunition Resupply breakdown (hover the mouse) lists shells (combined types) and torpedoes separately.  It would be a real pain if they were combined!

 

 

All I'm doing is going back to my MXStat export and adding a column next to the ship name. In row 2 add the formula AI2/X2, then fill down. That gives you shell cost divided by MB rounds fired, and that way I can go back through and just filter by the ship name to find the specific ships you're looking for. But, like I said, it seems to get a bit skewed by torpedoes.

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12 minutes ago, LT_Rusty_SWO said:

All I'm doing is going back to my MXStat export

Ah, okay.  I'd prefer a direct read but for non-torp ships this should work as well.  Thanks.

BTW, Dianeces confirmed Scharnhorst at 60.

Edited by iDuckman

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5 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Ah, okay.  I'd prefer a direct read but for non-torp ships this should work as well.  Thanks.

BTW, Dianeces confirmed Scharnhorst at 60.

 

My GK numbers are confirmed as 420mm guns.

Nikolai I is 40 credits per round, also.

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