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Legio_X_

The fundamental problem with the CV rework.

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In WOWS players in ships, fight other players in ships. In CV vs surface ship fighting, it’s player (CV) vs AI. The surface ship players can only control 1 thing. Manual AA sectors. All else is left to the AI and RNG jesus. Until WG puts something in place, where a surface ship player can the control actions himself against airplanes and feel like his “skill” played a role in driving back the enemy. This rework is a lost cause.

i’m sorry CV defenders. Death AA balls or following other ships around with AA just to survive in a PVP game is boring and introduces no player skill into the equation.

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AA was mostly hands off in the RTS era with only MFCAA's click on a squadron. Why is more hands on necessary now when it wasn't before or are you simply reaching for something new to complain about CV's for you daily CV whine?

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Anyone defending CVs has no leg to stand on when you consider that CVs have no skill-based counter. They're not fun to play against, end of story.

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6 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

AA was mostly hands off in the RTS era with only MFCAA's click on a squadron. Why is more hands on necessary now when it wasn't before or are you simply reaching for something new to complain about CV's for you daily CV whine?

Im sorry,  i thought i made a constructive post about the CV rework. Is that not enough for you?

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6 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

AA was mostly hands off in the RTS era with only MFCAA's click on a squadron. Why is more hands on necessary now when it wasn't before or are you simply reaching for something new to complain about CV's for you daily CV whine?

People took issue with AA being mostly Ai controlled in the RTS era too. Making it more hands on and player controlled would do alot to give a sense of agency back to players when dealing with Planes.

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Imagine you have a player base that's stratified into 80% free to play and 20% premium players.  At some point, you run out of ways to offer those free to play players a way to invest  in the game.  But, at some point there comes a time when  the costs of supporting those free to play players isn't being offset sufficiently by the premium players.

Let's assume you also have a new console based game that offers a similar experience but requires all new investment to get back to where you were.  Consoles offer so many other amazing benefits such as built in expiration dates that a developer can use as an excuse to move to a new platform and require continuing investment.  It's a much better deal all around.

But, how do you move those 80% over to the new platform when they've got everything they would ever want right here bought and paid for?

It's a tricky proposition.  I'm confident WG has a plan.

Edited by CommodoreKang
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9 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

AA was mostly hands off in the RTS era with only MFCAA's click on a squadron. Why is more hands on necessary now when it wasn't before or are you simply reaching for something new to complain about CV's for you daily CV whine?

Changes were necessary before.  If WG thought the previous AA system worked fine they wouldn't have completely reworked it along with CV's. 

You pointing out that we used to have a different system that was also widely seen as inadequate doesn't do much to defend the current one.

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31 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

In WOWS players in ships, fight other players in ships. In CV vs surface ship fighting, it’s player (CV) vs AI. The surface ship players can only control 1 thing. Manual AA sectors. All else is left to the AI and RNG jesus. Until WG puts something in place, where a surface ship player can the control actions himself against airplanes and feel like his “skill” played a role in driving back the enemy. This rework is a lost cause.

i’m sorry CV defenders. Death AA balls or following other ships around with AA just to survive in a PVP game is boring and introduces no player skill into the equation.

agreed. 

Bring on the era of CV vs CV. strap a few spitfire cannons onto the front of those rocket planes and let cloud wars rage.  Bring on the plane rain! 

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3 minutes ago, Legio_X_ said:

Im sorry,  i thought i made a constructive post about the CV rework. Is that not enough for you?

I just pointed out that AA has been hands off from the beginning just as secondaries have been. The devs have said that they didn't want to deal with the problems that a more hands on AA/secondary system would cause. Hands on would have to be more powerful than the hands off system to make it desirable but not so much more powerful that hands off would be suicide, AA would require a complete rework and balance would still be a mine field.

3 minutes ago, Krupp_Sabot said:

People took issue with AA being mostly Ai controlled in the RTS era too. Making it more hands on and player controlled would do alot to give a sense of agency back to players when dealing with Planes.

To be honest I mostly ignored the RTS CV's and anything concerning them on the forum so never noticed.

10 minutes ago, Vaidency said:

Changes were necessary before.  If WG thought the previous AA system worked fine they wouldn't have completely reworked it along with CV's. 

You pointing out that we used to have a different system that was also widely seen as inadequate doesn't do much to defend the current one.

They had to rework the AA because it was balanced around the RTS system and anything with even moderate AA power would have swatted planes out of the sky like King Kong in the 1933 movie.

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Cry baby making their daily CV hating post , now feel like playing CV even more !

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1 hour ago, Legio_X_ said:

In WOWS players in ships, fight other players in ships. In CV vs surface ship fighting, it’s player (CV) vs AI.

 

Every time I fly at a ship, it does stuff  - just like any ship does when I am dealing with it when in a DD, crusier or BB.

 

This isn't AI.

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Vector03 said:

Anyone defending CVs has no leg to stand on when you consider that CVs have no skill-based counter. They're not fun to play against, end of story.

Looks down

 

Sees both legs

 

So,  what the heck am I doing in my Asashio that I'm sinking more of them then they are me? 

 

BTW, for Asashio, insert Mass or Buffalo or Jean Bart or Shimakaze if you want.

 

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11 minutes ago, dad003 said:

Cry baby making their daily CV hating post , now feel like playing CV even more !

You know you are on the right track when those on the opposing side's only rebuttal is childish insults. 

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6 minutes ago, Terkoz said:

You know you are on the right track when those on the opposing side's only rebuttal is childish insults. 

They are just loyal soldiers doing the dirty work that WG needs done.  

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1 hour ago, Legio_X_ said:

In WOWS players in ships, fight other players in ships. In CV vs surface ship fighting, it’s player (CV) vs AI. The surface ship players can only control 1 thing. Manual AA sectors. All else is left to the AI and RNG jesus. Until WG puts something in place, where a surface ship player can the control actions himself against airplanes and feel like his “skill” played a role in driving back the enemy. This rework is a lost cause.

i’m sorry CV defenders. Death AA balls or following other ships around with AA just to survive in a PVP game is boring and introduces no player skill into the equation.

I wonder if we give the surface ship players the right to call on fighter support if a CV is in the game.

I.e., you can call fighters from the CV using a command from your own ship...independent of the CVs requirements?

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7 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I wonder if we give the surface ship players the right to call on fighter support if a CV is in the game.

I.e., you can call fighters from the CV using a command from your own ship...independent of the CVs requirements?

That is really the ships fighter consumable.

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1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

AA was mostly hands off in the RTS era with only MFCAA's click on a squadron. Why is more hands on necessary now when it wasn't before or are you simply reaching for something new to complain about CV's for you daily CV whine?

AA (or the lack of it) was always a issue. Its just that CVs were pretty rare, so most of the times it didnt matter. But the few times we had a CV in battle, most ships had no chance to defend themselves. 

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Agree with this one. As of now AA as a defensive system is really inefective and unfair. Player controlled planes vs AI controled AA, the outcome of this is defined by the skill of the CV player, a bad CV player gets wrecked a good CV player can almost ignore AA. The ship can do very little about that, the CV player has all the cards. 

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1 hour ago, Vector03 said:

Anyone defending CVs has no leg to stand on when you consider that CVs have no skill-based counter. They're not fun to play against, end of story.

Correct, they dont....and thats WG's fault because they want the simplicity of tiddly winks on water. So, rather than hating on ppl who play CV, hate on WG!

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The fact that you created this topic exposed just how little understanding that you have about CV counterplay. 

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34 minutes ago, Terkoz said:

You know you are on the right track when those on the opposing side's only rebuttal is childish insults. 

One guy's childish response is not the sum of the discussion here.

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3 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

The fact that you created this topic exposed just how little understanding that you have about CV counterplay. 

What counterplay? Hoping your AA works?

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I have to come realize that another fundamental problem is the anti-CV players.  All too often I see a player who ends up in a Double CV match, complains, Suicides his ship into the enemy by focus fire, not by any attack by the CV's and proceeds complain about the OP CV's.

If I would change anything about the CV's it would be the fighter consumable.  Buff it.  I want my fighters in that area for the full duration and be able to attack any enemy incoming aircraft without de-spawning until action time is over.  Right now I feel its almost completely usless to fly across the map, drop fighters and watch as they despawn after killing a few aircraft.  I would want the same change to ships fighter consumables too.   No more of this despawning crap until its time expires.

It would offer more counter play to the enemy CV.

Edited by HeadSplit120

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3 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

The fact that you created this topic exposed just how little understanding that you have about CV counterplay. 

What counter play am i missing? It doesn’t take rocket science.

1. Bring high damage AA ships. Low damage AA ships collect dust in port

2. Spec into Manual AA and BFT

3. AFT means crap when it comes to AA ( does not increase AA range like before).

4. Manual AA only increasing certain sector ( and in my experience does jack crap at stopping air attacks)

5. DFAA is useless as a consumable, planes still get their attacks through.

6. You either ball up with other ships with overlapping AA or hug high AA cruisers.

7. If a CV wants you dead, you are going to be dead. Just like in RTS mode.

8. And just like in RTS mode if you have a potato CV on your team and a unicum on other team. YOUR team will lose the match. 99% of the time.

i mean is there something im missing because its pretty easy to figure out. But go ahead and say i know nothing about it.

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1 hour ago, Vector03 said:

Anyone defending CVs has no leg to stand on when you consider that CVs have no skill-based counter. They're not fun to play against, end of story.

You are a full of it and don't know what you are talking about. Players like you are the problem not CVs.

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