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Berlimawurst

CVs are Still Overly Effective in 8.2

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I'll just bring the charts and data.

When you look for the highest XP,

you will find that an average CV player can get as much XP as a top player who runs a Stalingrad/Bourgogne/Alabama ST.

Not sure if this is working as intended, because the even pre-change 7.0 CV average data is not as good.

You may argue that they do not have the top damages, but the reason they can get so much XP without a lot of damage is that they are too effective against destroyers.  (Knocking off 50% health from a DD is almost as effective as taking 50% health off a BB when calculating for XP gain. )

Is this change really working as intended? Giving an average CV player as much power as a top CA/CL/BB player?

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Yep, sells more premium CV packs......  Or, didn't you notice those "for sale" signs all over the place before this latest meta meltdown....  Whew, it's been a rough 6 weeks or so.....

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7 minutes ago, Berlimawurst said:

you will find that an average CV player can get as much XP as a top player who runs a Stalingrad/Bourgogne/Alabama ST.

 

Yes that's the reason why most CV I play with / face always have less XP than a unicum player / unicum division.

Clearly playing CV allow a red player to earn purple stats that easily.

 

 

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You realize it's only really because, unlike a lot of other ships, CVs tend to usually last the whole match if nothing goes terribly wrong, right? Imagine if you had a 70 or 80% survival rate in battles. Even in losses, more often than not I'm still alive in my CV.

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Their excessively high exp gain despite not out-damaging BB's at the same tier clearly shows that they're dealing tons of damage to destroyers.

I don't think DD's were so powerful that they needed a new ship type showing up in every game that's extremely good at countering them.  Additional changes aimed at somehow protecting DD's and/or encouraging CV's to favor other targets seem necessary.

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Seem Necessary huh how about players being able to control a squadron of torpedo boats say (12) and only being sunk once the last boat is destroyed. I would like to see the CVs fighter try to chase down and rocket them PT boats hehehehehe OR how about getting them there Submarines into the game to challenge everything that floats  hehehehehehe   

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As we've mentioned CV balance is still very much ongoing (see the plane launch delay announcement in the Dev blog) and the team will continue to make additional tweaks as need be.  Believe me we're very closely watching not only the data you show (plus a ton more) but community sentiment as well.  Pairing those together is helping the team make necessary adjustments.

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I had a game last night where I was in my T5 USS Texas full AA spec with 19 point capt. We had two T6 CVs in the game. They both decided to focus me with other ships on my team around me. Took down 24 of their aircraft before they were able to delete me from the game. Of course, since they have unlimited aircraft this really means nothing to them. There was absolutely no counter to their air attacks. The enemy CV players even agreed that this was broken and needed to be fixed since I was arguably in the best T5 AA ship in the game.   But according to the brilliant and know it alls at War Gaming everything is working as intended. Wake up WG such a small percentage base of your players actually like CVs. You've completely ruined this game for a lot of the player base. If we had one CV per side at ALL tiers things might be better. MAYBE!. Maybe WG needs to think about a staffing adjustment because it seems we just keep beating a dead horse and no one is listening! Go back to the way CVs were and limit them to one per side and everyone would be happy. 

Edited by Misfit87
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They need to eliminate allowing 2 CV per match. That is what makes CV OP. If 2 CV captains decide to work together there is nothing you can really do.

 

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World of Naval Air Power, with surface ships thrown into the mix to hold the CV driver's interest in the game. At the end of the game, typically only CVs are left fighting, sometimes for quite a while. You wait and wait until your ship is released (sunk many minutes ago) to port so you can play again, while the CVs are having at it.

Edited by Ericson38
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22 minutes ago, Roamer0101 said:

They need to eliminate allowing 2 CV per match. That is what makes CV OP. If 2 CV captains decide to work together there is nothing you can really do.

 

This could do alot to getting rid of some of the vitriol.  You may as well alt tab and browse the internet if two CVs decide to make it their lifes work to kill you. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't happen often, but when it does, it sucks.

Edited by Taco_De_Moist
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50 minutes ago, Misfit87 said:

Of course, since they have unlimited aircraft...

I stopped reading at this point.

Learn the game.

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5 hours ago, Vaidency said:

Their excessively high exp gain despite not out-damaging BB's at the same tier clearly shows that they're dealing tons of damage to destroyers.

I don't think DD's were so powerful that they needed a new ship type showing up in every game that's extremely good at countering them.  Additional changes aimed at somehow protecting DD's and/or encouraging CV's to favor other targets seem necessary.

The issue with DDs is that CVs were originally supposed to be their counter. When the game launched there was no radar. WG introduced radar largely because there were not enough CVs playing to counter the DDs.

Now you have a situation where radar is everywhere at high tier and double CV games are fairly common. It makes playing DD a lot tougher (and frankly not enjoyable in my opinion). With the CVs in the game now, DDs don’t have much choice except to stick very close to their fleet. You can’t swing games like you could in the past. You can’t go out on your own to spot enemy ships because you’ll get shredded by planes. 

I’ve pretty much switched from playing mostly DDs to playing a mix of CVs and cruisers. I keep trying the odd DD game, but it’s just not fun any more. I still like the game - just not the DD class.

Edited by madmikey77
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1 hour ago, Radar_X said:

As we've mentioned CV balance is still very much ongoing (see the plane launch delay announcement in the Dev blog) and the team will continue to make additional tweaks as need be.  Believe me we're very closely watching not only the data you show (plus a ton more) but community sentiment as well.  Pairing those together is helping the team make necessary adjustments.

 I am glad to hear they're still looking at it and aren't happy with the finish product yet

 I've never seen such a divide in this game even my patience is starting to wear thin

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7 hours ago, Berlimawurst said:

 

You may argue that they do not have the top damages, but the reason they can get so much XP without a lot of damage is that they are too effective against destroyers.  (Knocking off 50% health from a DD is almost as effective as taking 50% health off a BB when calculating for XP gain. )

 

DD players fault for not staying with the fleet early on. CV's have always punished yolo players, now its happening all the time since there are more CV's out there.

Also, not all carriers are effective vs DD, IJN with the exception of Kaga is useless vs DD's.

WG does need to get rid of the 2 CV per team however....and nerf T10AA, nerf T10 CV damage output.

 

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1 hour ago, Radar_X said:

As we've mentioned CV balance is still very much ongoing (see the plane launch delay announcement in the Dev blog) and the team will continue to make additional tweaks as need be.  Believe me we're very closely watching not only the data you show (plus a ton more) but community sentiment as well.  Pairing those together is helping the team make necessary adjustments.

This is good to hear.......  But, it makes me wonder, how could this entire mess have happened if "we" were part of the process???  No one asked me or mine?  I wasn't invited, nor, anyone I know in game to participate in a Carrier Deep Dive to change the mechanics of the game...   We would have told you culturally, it would not have worked.....  You've split cultures:  those who want more of WW2 and those whom have never studied it and want an arcade....

Now, the silence is deafening from you'all....  What is the current, 2 and 5 year plan for the game....  If you want me to invest my time and money, after the 8.0 fiasco, someone is going to have to tell people just like me why?

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1 hour ago, Radar_X said:

As we've mentioned CV balance is still very much ongoing (see the plane launch delay announcement in the Dev blog) and the team will continue to make additional tweaks as need be.  Believe me we're very closely watching not only the data you show (plus a ton more) but community sentiment as well.  Pairing those together is helping the team make necessary adjustments.

You do realize you are just encouraging the same ol CV hate spam on forums by same posters over and over and over........  

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if you look over the whole, WG is a profit company, they will change what ever the paying players complain about the most. The CV were fine for the most part they had issues but most of the Ships have them two ,There is no easy fix and you can not keep them all players happy. 

Still as a whole is works for the most part , big issue with CV now is allowing 2 of the in one match, this is wrong on to many levels, all CV s will control a match if the wish to there is nothing any Military ship can really do to stop that,  no rework will ever change it., they need to stop allowing 2 cv in a match at all there is no reason for it. it is like allowing 4 of the same BB or DD in the same match. 

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4 hours ago, Radar_X said:

As we've mentioned CV balance is still very much ongoing (see the plane launch delay announcement in the Dev blog) and the team will continue to make additional tweaks as need be.  Believe me we're very closely watching not only the data you show (plus a ton more) but community sentiment as well.  Pairing those together is helping the team make necessary adjustments.

Radar_X please stop listing to the whiney player base. And yes I mean whiney. The DD player have been complaining the entire time about everything. 

Stealth fire removal, radar, RTS CV, US crusier split, then radar again, begging for CV rework and now for ever complaning about CV again.

This is another post of "remove cv or I will quit" post. WG needs to stop the nerfs and let it sit or you will destroy your own creation

The forum is nothing but complaning about CV and 3 months ago it was only complaning about radar.

Tired of it just let the CV sit and stop changing because there is to much instability. I don't of I should buy anything or not because you keep changing them.

Please stop trying to please people that will NEVER be happy.

Edited by jags_domain
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1 hour ago, General_WTSherman said:

I completely understand balance—I doubt you play a DD currently

 

there is no real counter for CV as it currently stands.  With the prevalence of high AA cruisers to just try and survive with the CV there is increased radar and hydro as a secondary effect.  Your vitriol toward the concept of nerfing an OP CLASS like CV is clear as you missed my sarcasm—I was adopting the tone of the current CV supporters towards opposing opinions.

I would like to see a balanced CV class in game—I’m not sure how this will be accomplished, but CV’s (a minority class) shouldn’t ruin the experience of most of the player base (based on chat during games)

 

EVERYTHING depends on the tiering of the CV. As a player who plays Kaga almost exclusively when in a CV, I can tell you that my effectiveness is entirely dependent on the tier of the battle. I just pulled in 100k in a loss with a T7-9 match, but 80k of that came after the 10 minute mark and the match was already decided. I got that number because I was the second last one alive, our Lex was the other. Had I sank at the 10 minute mark like half my team I could have had less than 20k attack. Lost 67 aircraft and most of that was to T7 ships. Being placed in a T10 match makes Kaga very ineffective at anything but spotting for the first half of the match.

The CV that causes the biggest issue is Midway and to a lesser extent, Hak. Their numbers are artificially inflated because they can easily feast on T8 ships on a regular basis.

Balancing the class requires fixing AA and addressing the substantial power creep from T9 to T10. CV's themselves should have probably been at T5-7-9, with T5's being early war or 30's designs, T7 being Enterprise, Shokaku, Lex, etc, and T9 being late war Essex, Taiho etc. T4 CV's could still exist, but would be put in a training ships and used in missions. Complete 15 missions and you can unlock the T5 CV.

The whole concept of hard counters (rock paper scissors) went out the window with Radar, Hydro, HE flinging BB's and cruisers with AP only. Now, most ships are a soft counter to everything. Eventually I hope WG will come to its senses and allow us to configure our ships the way we want, modules are grouped in classes, and we get to pick from each class. Let DD's have radar so they can see how often its actually useful......but at the cost of losing their Def AA or Hydro

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9 hours ago, Vaidency said:

Their excessively high exp gain despite not out-damaging BB's at the same tier clearly shows that they're dealing tons of damage to destroyers.

I don't think DD's were so powerful that they needed a new ship type showing up in every game that's extremely good at countering them.  Additional changes aimed at somehow protecting DD's and/or encouraging CV's to favor other targets seem necessary.

This. The CV players will defend their class endlessly, but where's the love for DDs? WG has no love for them, ever.

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4 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I stopped reading at this point.

Learn the game.

Oh no. You did not read the rest of my post and told me to learn a game that I've been playing for over 3 years with over 8000 games. I feel so hurt. Yes, they do basically have unlimited planes. I know they have a cooldown and have to rebuild their squadron. So maybe you're the one that needs to learn the game. Also, please tell me the exact number of planes they have since it's limited according to you, the almighty know it all. 

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If you actually believed this dribble, you would play CV.  But let's face it the CV play is less than desireable.

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42 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

I can tell you that my effectiveness is entirely dependent on the tier of the battle.

THIS!

Maybe the T10 CVs are op... I don't know; I haven't played one yet. But if I get into a T10 match with a T8 CV, I might as well do nothing. My planes just melt no matter what ship I go after. At lower levels, I do better, but my scores are nothing compared to what I would get in any BB, CA,CL, or DD that I could play. In Hosho, for instance, since I'm playing it a lot today, my damage is averaging about 25,000 a game. I could easily get 2-3x that in any ship but a CV, so I just don't get why everyone says CV are OP.... except maybe at T10, as I said.

Edited by FuBard123
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