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megahugenoob

Encouraging Growth, Game Rejects

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Despite my hated for CV's, there are components of this game I still enjoy. I have fun playing  with friends etc...   Recently I had some success getting a RL buddy to come play with me.  They were excited, they just made Tier 6 on La Galassionnerie.   For those not familiar, this is a tier 6 cruiser that has 24,800 hp stock.    I encouraged this player to use what little free XP they had and upgrade the firing range to mid 15's to help. 

We played 5 games in a row and my friend logged out of frustration.  In every single game my friend was either facing teams with 2 CV's or was one of 2 Tier 6's being matched with Tier 8s or both.  My friend ended up losing money, but more importantly lost the desire to play. 

 

I Will be the first to say I am very hard on WG for what I consider to be foolish practices, but today's encounter with my friend was an eye opener for me.  I have been playing for about 2 years and have many Tier X's and I forgot how hard and brutal this game is when you are starting out. I remember how tough it was without the CV menace.

The purpose of this post is hopefully to encourage WG to reconsider how they operate things at lower levels (8 and below).  You cannot continue to put Tier 6's in with Tier 8s and have double Cv's as well. This is a morale killer and I saw first hand it caused someone who was enjoying your game to log in frustration and they currently do not want to play. 

My question is "how are we to encourage growth of a game when the game pummels people via matchmaking?"  I am not talking about one team getting more radar ships than the other, I am talking about asking a Tier 6 cruiser to fight against tier 8 bb's with 65k+ Hp or T8 Cruisers with 42k+ hp.  Newer players with inexperienced captains dont have IFHE to help them penetrate, they don't have the 5th mod slot that helps them with conceal to be a bit more stealthy when the big kids are hunting them.

Some will shrug this off and say w/e, we all had to grind through it and thats fine.  I would however say in the interests of growing this game that WG should address this pretty quickly.

Edited by megahugenoob
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Was he still on the stock hull?

If he was, then you unfortunately gave him some poor advice. While extra range is nice, hull upgrades should be prioritized first 95% of the time, as they not only provide extra HP they also generally come with AA improvements among other things such as better rudder shift times(meaning better maneuverability). Had he had the upgraded hull, he might have had the AA to fend off a few attacks.

Edited by GhostSwordsman
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Good points OP, I've been playing since a week before the official launch and have been able to "roll with the punches" as the game changes and I still feel like some of the things WG has done is a kick in the nuts.  If I was new to the game now I would pretty much give up on playing DDs immediately and for cruisers T6 sounds about right.  After going through the low tiers getting put into T8 games with a stock T6 against radar and CV and monster battleships and big time players and big time captains would be jarring to say the least.  I can definitely see where that would be the point where people would call it quits because the challenge and effort to progress starts getting serious.

Edited by T_O_dubl_D
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3 minutes ago, T_O_dubl_D said:

Good points OP, I've been playing since a week before the official launch and have been able to "roll with the punches" as the game changes and I still feel like some of the things WG has done is a kick in the nuts.  If I was new to the game now I would pretty much give up on playing DDs immediately and for cruisers T6 sounds about right.  After going through the low tiers getting put into T8 games with a stock T6 against radar and CV and monster battleships and big time players and big time captains would be jarring to say the least.  I can definitely see where that would be the point where people would call it quits because the challenge and effort to progress starts getting serious.

both OP and you make good points. I have made every single, major, fatal error so far in this game. some of the biggest, in no particular order:

did the grind to T10 in multiple lines without learning much about the lines.

did not learn the fundamentals (aiming, armor, angles and penetration).

have not had the patience nor willingness to change my playstyle to adapt to the new metas presented pretty much every new version.

established god awful crappy stats early, and reinforced them with lousy play for a couple thousand battles.

did not take breaks when frustrated out of my skull.

taking everything you've mentioned and add to it the challenge of trying to bring up your stats to the point where you're not crapped on most battles by the stat shamers in battle chat, and calculate it will take at least another 5k battles to make a serious dent in it.

did I hear a troll say 'reroll" or "quit and uninstall"...

am in the middle of a break now, and not sure how long it will be. the price for stupidity and making errors in this game is quite high.

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OP has a point, a very valid point.  He kind of beat me to my punch line about my current grinding with tier 6 destroyers in which I plan to write up about how oppressive gameplay is with them right now.  Double CV often at least one being tier 8 makes tier 6 play cringingly painful particularly for DDs...although I can imagine that stock t6 CLs can also be a pain.  Needless to say I am a unicum and its painful...can only imagine what a new player to the game will feel like in this balanced meta.

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It's one of those patterns I always see when getting a new ship:

I try to do a few co-op battles in an A-Hull and grind my way through it...  always a painful time.  But hey..  It's co-op so nobody cares.

Currently grinding an A-Hull T4 Kaiser and T6 Fuso in my alt account..  Yeah..  I usually end up bottom of the results with friendly bots doing better.

Getting up the new hulls slowly..  but I'm in no hurry.

I could Free XP, but maybe I like dealing with the pain -- to remind me how bad WG can treat someone.

Most battles are +2 tier.  My bot mirror is always fully upgraded.

It's the game.

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2 hours ago, megahugenoob said:

Despite my hated for CV's, there are components of this game I still enjoy. I have fun playing  with friends etc...   Recently I had some success getting a RL buddy to come play with me.  They were excited, they just made Tier 6 on La Galassionnerie.   For those not familiar, this is a tier 6 cruiser that has 24,800 hp stock.    I encouraged this player to use what little free XP they had and upgrade the firing range to mid 15's to help. 

We played 5 games in a row and my friend logged out of frustration.  In every single game my friend was either facing teams with 2 CV's or was one of 2 Tier 6's being matched with Tier 8s or both.  My friend ended up losing money, but more importantly lost the desire to play. 

 

I Will be the first to say I am very hard on WG for what I consider to be foolish practices, but today's encounter with my friend was an eye opener for me.  I have been playing for about 2 years and have many Tier X's and I forgot how hard and brutal this game is when you are starting out. I remember how tough it was without the CV menace.

The purpose of this post is hopefully to encourage WG to reconsider how they operate things at lower levels (8 and below).  You cannot continue to put Tier 6's in with Tier 8s and have double Cv's as well. This is a morale killer and I saw first hand it caused someone who was enjoying your game to log in frustration and they currently do not want to play. 

My question is "how are we to encourage growth of a game when the game pummels people via matchmaking?"  I am not talking about one team getting more radar ships than the other, I am talking about asking a Tier 6 cruiser to fight against tier 8 bb's with 65k+ Hp or T8 Cruisers with 42k+ hp.  Newer players with inexperienced captains dont have IFHE to help them penetrate, they don't have the 5th mod slot that helps them with conceal to be a bit more stealthy when the big kids are hunting them.

Some will shrug this off and say w/e, we all had to grind through it and thats fine.  I would however say in the interests of growing this game that WG should address this pretty quickly.

Know one care about the low teir. Its litteraly beneath them. CC never talk about it unless they want to get there woke points. Ahowing onw Sipan game in t6 like that ever happened.

No CC dont care the arogance of t10 players, like that interesting is amazing.

T5 6 and 7 are the I teresting onse I think.

I hope your friend comes back.

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WG wont change the MM +2 its part of their business model. In fact they got your friend t spend some money on FXP conversion so mission accomplished for them. Im surprised you friend survived the shock for moving from T4 to T5. Im not shocked about him quitting in T6 since imo i think that has the 2nd most brutal MM.

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4 hours ago, Kongo_Pride said:

OP has a point, a very valid point.  He kind of beat me to my punch line about my current grinding with tier 6 destroyers in which I plan to write up about how oppressive gameplay is with them right now.  Double CV often at least one being tier 8 makes tier 6 play cringingly painful particularly for DDs...although I can imagine that stock t6 CLs can also be a pain.  Needless to say I am a unicum and its painful...can only imagine what a new player to the game will feel like in this balanced meta.

Yes, the OP's frustrations are shared by a great many.  The crew I run with are like me, average players; and. many have played before together in other games....  It's for fun and fellowship..  And, we are losing them as well.  Mature game players whom just wanted to have fun; and fun, just can't be found of late.  Wow.....what a mess they created and for what, a few more short term dollars? 

I wish our host would just come out and tell us what the 2019 goal is....  Bottom line up front: why are they screwing with what was working???  At least then, up front, we'd know whether it was or was not something to invest time in (since time is the hardest thing to have......) 

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4 hours ago, GhostSwordsman said:

Was he still on the stock hull?

If he was, then you unfortunately gave him some poor advice. While extra range is nice, hull upgrades should be prioritized first 95% of the time, as they not only provide extra HP they also generally come with AA improvements among other things such as better rudder shift times(meaning better maneuverability). Had he had the upgraded hull, he might have had the AA to fend off a few attacks.

While this is true the aa of a t6 cruiser wont do much to a t8 cv sadly, So really taking the range mod allowed them more consistent returns, now if they were to play in a group like 4 ships then he would be safer. Problem is this tends to be a very stagnant form of play as no one generally leads the pack.

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There is a massive learning curve at tier 5/6, and just as large one at tier 8.  I still recall how painful it was when i was new when i hit both tier 5   and tier 8 for the first time.(the latter was after taking a break from the game, so being rusty didn't help)

 

I am not sure what can be done to lessen that gap.   +/- 1 MM is more friendly for newer players, as they have less ships to learn, and the power gap between single tiers tends to not be that massive.  On the flip side, it could lead to more boring matches, being stuck facing the same ships over and over for longer lasting players. 

 

Another minor note, if someone starts playing without an invite code, they don't get any goodies.  I get why the invite code exists, and what it's trying to do for the game, but i can also sympathize with those who just started playing, and wont get any rewards for hitting tier 6.   I never used an invite code(just downloaded the game and played), which means i never got a tier 3 ship and a texas like my buddy did.(who i invited)  I can say that not having a premium for free, hurt my progress.  It wasn't until i got the indy in a SC and a Mo later, that i was able to make any decent amount of credits to afford my grinding.  Perhaps some sort of middle ground can be found for players who started playing without a code.    Another minor annoyance is that, i believe you only get rewarded so many times(3?) for people reaching tier 6, after that you no longer get any rewards.(they do)    I can get why they want to limit it, so it isn't abused.  On the other hand, i don't think it is entirely fair for long time players, who bring new players in, to stop being rewarded for doing so. 

 

 

tutorials in general, in game, showing things off need to be there, and better.  Just saying watch a vid isn't enough. 

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7 hours ago, Spud_butt said:

add to it the challenge of trying to bring up your stats to the point where you're not crapped on most battles by the stat shamers in battle chat,

Why not just grow a thicker skin and tell them to sod off? They wouldn't be able to make you feel bad if YOU weren't already ashamed of your own performance. Ignore the numbers and play to enjoy the game, or you will go mad.

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22 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Why not just grow a thicker skin and tell them to sod off? They wouldn't be able to make you feel bad if YOU weren't already ashamed of your own performance. Ignore the numbers and play to enjoy the game, or you will go mad.

An interesting thought,  would be a way to just turn chat off entirely. 

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3 minutes ago, GrayPanther2018 said:

An interesting thought,  would be a way to just turn chat off entirely. 

Unfortunately, too many people use it for the reason it was actually intended for me to want to do that.

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9 hours ago, BarnacleCollector said:

Friends don't let friends play WG games.

Don't want to lose the few I have either. :Smile_teethhappy:

 

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8 hours ago, The_Chiv said:

While this is true the aa of a t6 cruiser wont do much to a t8 cv sadly, So really taking the range mod allowed them more consistent returns, now if they were to play in a group like 4 ships then he would be safer. Problem is this tends to be a very stagnant form of play as no one generally leads the pack.

This was my thought as well when I encouraged him to get the range mod. 

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5 minutes ago, megahugenoob said:

get the range mod. 

What in the world is a range mod? The helper that shows you enemy ships ranges? 

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13 hours ago, GhostSwordsman said:

Was he still on the stock hull?

If he was, then you unfortunately gave him some poor advice. While extra range is nice, hull upgrades should be prioritized first 95% of the time, as they not only provide extra HP they also generally come with AA improvements among other things such as better rudder shift times(meaning better maneuverability). Had he had the upgraded hull, he might have had the AA to fend off a few attacks.

That was my first thought as well.  "Extra range is the WORST upgrade", all it is doing for your friend is likely making them more of a target with a larger firing bloom and thus larger detection radius.

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4 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

That was my first thought as well.  "Extra range is the WORST upgrade", all it is doing for your friend is likely making them more of a target with a larger firing bloom and thus larger detection radius.

Must admit, I smirked when I read about having to first choose the hull upgrade first 95% of the time. I myself have upgraded the guns first on German, French Cruisers (I'm grinding on separate account). I'd rather be able to contribute to battle/fire fight, than think about surviving the battle round. I believe this game possibly rewards more on the side of aggressor mentality versus the opposite. 

I suppose the choice for me at the time was to "hit" targets and able to reach targets with my gun ranges than worrying about incoming shells. Unless, the main priority is to fast track past all ships to Tier10. Then I guess only unlocking the hulls would be a faster and better utilisation of ship XP.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

That was my first thought as well.  "Extra range is the WORST upgrade", all it is doing for your friend is likely making them more of a target with a larger firing bloom and thus larger detection radius.

Depends on how you think of it, 2k hp is not gonna do anything for him when he's facing the upgraded guns for t8s.  An extra 1.5 km can if he is doing his job and hiding behind islands and being strategic.  Whether he has 24k hp or 26k hp makes no difference in that scenario.

 

Besides, we all know in order to get XP, you have to do damage.

Edited by megahugenoob

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On 4/21/2019 at 3:15 AM, Asym_KS said:

The crew I run with are like me, average players; and. many have played before together in other games....  It's for fun and fellowship..  And, we are losing them as well.  Mature game players whom just wanted to have fun; and fun, just can't be found of late.

You speak the truth -- my clan used to have about 15 really active members that played a little bit everyday...now I'm seeing about 7 guys, randomly, over the course of the week. Many guys have decided to move on and haven't logged on in over a month, and it's a darned shame. I think we all knew the CV rework would be, at the very least polarizing, but I'm surprised at the impact it's had on some WoWs veterans...it's gonna be a long road trying to convince many of them to come back. I can't imagine how a new player would be in the least excited about the state of Randoms these days.

Edited by HTSMetal
Wow - a downvote a month later because I miss my previous clan's clanmates? Some of y'all are so toxic it's gross.

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Yes. I recently started a new account and used the gift free xp ti level up to stock T6 Pensacola (not enough fxp for module upgrades). Despite of the devastating 203mm AP, lacking of concealment skill really made it suck in this glass cannon. My gun range is the same as my concealment at 14.2km. Furthermore, almost guaranteed cv in game made me constantly spotted. You all know how big AP likes to cit Pensacola from all weird angles. I can imagine how frustrated new players will feel when facing 2 tiers higher BBs with better concealment and instantly lose 50%-100% health. WG never made the game easy for new players.

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2 hours ago, LowSpeed_US said:

What in the world is a range mod? The helper that shows you enemy ships ranges? 

Range modification upgrade from the ship. Allows him to shoot farther.

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3 hours ago, Judadiao said:

Yes. I recently started a new account and used the gift free xp ti level up to stock T6 Pensacola (not enough fxp for module upgrades). Despite of the devastating 203mm AP, lacking of concealment skill really made it suck in this glass cannon. My gun range is the same as my concealment at 14.2km. Furthermore, almost guaranteed cv in game made me constantly spotted. You all know how big AP likes to cit Pensacola from all weird angles. I can imagine how frustrated new players will feel when facing 2 tiers higher BBs with better concealment and instantly lose 50%-100% health. WG never made the game easy for new players.

That's a great point. I never asked for it to be easy. I do however ask for it to be moderately fair. Lessons players need to learn playing cruisers like angling armor, dont sail broadside, sometimes you have a good shot but its better to hold fire because you will be spotted and fired back at by multiple ships are all things that players learn through experience.  Overmatch, due to tiers, excessive HP pools comparatively, far superior captains granting them even more advantages such as concealment, fire prevention, faster consumable reloads, etc... all tilt the scales even further in favor of the higher tier players.   I don't object to those skills, but there is no reasonable way that a T6 can compete with a T8, just like most T8s cant hang with T10s.  When you factor in that the carrier planes are virtually impervious to your AA when they are 2 tiers higher, it makes for a day where you can play it all correctly, and still get utterly obliterated.

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