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KAAOS_Frosty

CV's getting it Again

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Once again we will be getting a Nerf of sort's as it will hurt your Damage out put during the match. As I have replied to the Thread that said CV Improvements. 

Tier 4 no changes

Tier 6 you will have to wait 15 seconds before you can launch planes after match starts.

Tier 8 you will wait 30 seconds. 

Tier 10 you will wait 45 seconds.

 

Wargaming had the audacity to call that an Improvement. Still no relief from being up tiered. Still no Legendary Mod's for Tier 10's. Still not listening to the CV community they did the re-work to try to revive. Still only Listening to the the DD player base. Because we already Know EVERY Cruiser and BB will be humping the Nearest Islands. 

 

 

Frosty

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Patch 0.8.0 was the pinnacle for the CV class, after 0.8.0.1 You can;t complain now....

You have a choice to adapt/get gut or quit the class.

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16 minutes ago, neptunes_wrath said:

RPjRGFW.jpg

IKR, it's like some people think the moment they read a new thing that they are the first to do so and make a thread about it.

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CVs should be one tier difference only  period  ! ! ! ! !

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i dont have a problem with the time delay but i would love to see CVs get +1/-1 MM.  I think all classes would benefit from that change

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Seriously though ... what does this achieve?

What does this 30 second window offer surface ships?

How does it change the game?

What will it do?

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3 minutes ago, HMS_Formidable said:

Seriously though ... what does this achieve?

What does this 30 second window offer surface ships?

How does it change the game?

What will it do?

IMO not much, now my fighter will arrive at caps same time or just before DDs instead of flying around waiting for them

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I understand the torpedo delay - to reduce start-of-game griefing teamkills.

I understand the  delay to load BB shells - they can't shoot anything in that opening 30sec or so anyway as it hasn't been spotted.

But a 30 second reduction of game-time in a 20-minute game carrier game means ...

 

I think what they're trying to say is that aircraft move too fast?

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I don't play much anymore. Two CVs per match results in getting hit significantly by a group of things you can't actually try to hit back at (the planes) Try and go and take a CV out yourself. Not many try it, and that is why they are many time the last ships left afloat in a match. Gone are the days of skillful sea battles between ships.

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25 minutes ago, HMS_Formidable said:

Seriously though ... what does this achieve?

What does this 30 second window offer surface ships?

How does it change the game?

What will it do?

It will allow DD's to get near caps without being pestered by CV planes, which is a good thing. It allows DD's a chance to do their job of capping.

Edited by _Rumple_
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3 minutes ago, Ericson38 said:

I don't play much anymore. Two CVs per match results in getting hit significantly by a group of things you can't actually try to hit back at (the planes) Try and go and take a CV out yourself. Not many try it, and that is why they are many time the last ships left afloat in a match. Gone are the days of skillful sea battles between ships.

Here's the thing: I don't just play CV. I don't just play DD. I don't just play CA and I don't just play BB.

So - yes: I have tried to take out a CV by stealthing around in my DD. It doesn't work every time. But it's worked enough times to make the attempt worthwhile.

So - yes: I have tried to take out a CV by exploiting a gap (usually when the enemy team goes and hugs the edge of a map) and pushing through enemy lines. Harder than in a DD, but achievable.

So - yes: I have tried to take out a CV by asking my carrier to spot their carrier to see if it was in sniping range of my BB. I found this easier than I thought. At the very least it forces the enemy CV to the back of the map (greater flight times).

And yes, I've attacked lone DDs and BBs regularly with my CV. Except in lower tiers, I've learnt to leave just about all T8+ CA alone... They simply melt my squadrons every time. I've also learnt to leave grouped ships alone. And which ships have what sort of AA. I've also learnt that damaged ships usually have less functional AA, so I go after them. And that I can be more aggressive in the second half of the game, and not so much the first. Which is why I have to be very careful about not losing too many aircraft too quickly.

My carrier has been stealth hunted by DDs.

My carrier has been over-run by outflanking CA.

My carrier has been sniped by well positioned BB.

(Probably because I drive RN carriers, which I find need to get closer for faster squadron turn-around times due to their slow aircraft speeds ... perhaps there is a lesson to be learnt there?)

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4 minutes ago, _Rumple_ said:

It will allow DD's to get near caps without being pestered by CV planes, which is a good thing. It allows DD's a chance to do their job of capping.

I don't see how it will actually do this though.

Surely the delay would have to be 5-10 minutes for a cap-rush to work?

Perhaps the cap-rush is no longer as viable a tactic as it was?

IMHO the best way to defend a cap-rush is to give carriers control of fighters - to better intercept the attempt of enemy carriers to take out cap-rushing DDs? The fighter bubble as it stands doesn't cut it IMHO.

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Just now, HMS_Formidable said:

I don't see how it will actually do this though.

Surely the delay would have to be 5-10 minutes for a cap-rush to work?

Perhaps the cap-rush is no longer a viable tactic?

I can forsee a DD, especially a fast one, coupled with speed flag and boosting being able to get to a cap before a  plane can harrass them with this change being implemented.

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Just now, _Rumple_ said:

I can forsee a DD, especially a fast one, coupled with speed flag and boosting being able to get to a cap before a  plane can harrass them with this change being implemented.

No, 45 seconds is not enough for a DD to get to a cap and this nerf is a slippery slope. After this nerf, people are going to demand an even longer delay at the start and a delay between squad launches. The constant anti-CV whining is getting old...

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I don't understand why people are getting bent out of shape over this.

Pre-rework, CVs had to wait, like everyone else, before they could launch planes. In fact, it was often longer to get those planes to cap as some CV players waited until most of their air groups were up before sending them anywhere(and the groups were slower overall). Or it was because fighters were sent to caps, but fighters generally were not the first squad ready, so they had to wait their turn to leave the flight deck and head towards a cap.

Why the launch delay was removed with the rework, I don't think I'll understand.

That said, the times may be a little much with the previous blanket buff to air concealment values. DDs needed that buff, everything else didn't. Had WG instead just added a 'load' delay for aircraft at match start, and buffed DD air concealment, then I think everything would have been just fine.

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3 minutes ago, JustAdapt said:

No, 45 seconds is not enough for a DD to get to a cap and this nerf is a slippery slope. After this nerf, people are going to demand an even longer delay at the start and a delay between squad launches. The constant anti-CV whining is getting old...

45 seconds before flight 30 to 40 flight time to Target. So over 1:30 till you can do anything in a tier 10 cv. And that would be at the least.

The Constant nerf'ing of CV's or changes made about avg. would be once every week and half 2 weeks is GETTING OLD.

 

Frosty

 

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3 minutes ago, JustAdapt said:

No, 45 seconds is not enough for a DD to get to a cap and this nerf is a slippery slope. After this nerf, people are going to demand an even longer delay at the start and a delay between squad launches. The constant anti-CV whining is getting old...

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. It's enough time for a DD to get to a cap and smoke up just as planes are arriving, provided you're fast, using a speed flag and boosting there. Previously a plane could catch you before reaching that cap...with this change, a DD has a very good chance of reaching a cap before a plane.

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38 minutes ago, GhostSwordsman said:

I don't understand why people are getting bent out of shape over this.

Pre-rework, CVs had to wait, like everyone else, before they could launch planes. In fact, it was often longer to get those planes to cap as some CV players waited until most of their air groups were up before sending them anywhere(and the groups were slower overall). Or it was because fighters were sent to caps, but fighters generally were not the first squad ready, so they had to wait their turn to leave the flight deck and head towards a cap.

Why the launch delay was removed with the rework, I don't think I'll understand.

That said, the times may be a little much with the previous blanket buff to air concealment values. DDs needed that buff, everything else didn't. Had WG instead just added a 'load' delay for aircraft at match start, and buffed DD air concealment, then I think everything would have been just fine.

The major difference is pre-rework CVs could set coordinates for planes to go to, which gave them something to do. Rework CVs literally sit there and do nothing for 45 seconds...

Additionally, pre-rework CVs could launch up to 8 squads (Hak) and could attack with them all at once. A delay in this scenario was fine because the delay was compensated with alpha damage from multiple squads and continuous spotting of the whole map. Adding a delay to rework CVs is just a flat damage nerf and there is no consistent spotting for the team. 

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17 minutes ago, JustAdapt said:

The major difference is pre-rework CVs could set coordinates for planes to go to, which gave them something to do. Rework CVs literally sit there and do nothing for 45 seconds...

Additionally, pre-rework CVs could launch up to 8 squads (Hak) and could attack with them all at once. A delay in this scenario was fine because the delay was compensated with alpha damage from multiple squads and continuous spotting of the whole map. Adding a delay to rework CVs is just a flat damage nerf and there is no consistent spotting for the team. 

this was the point i was trying to say before one of the moderators irrationally and impulsively removed it. things are getting worse for carriers not better. WG is already breaking something already broken but i am not planning on writing off carriers just yet. if they are going to do what they say they are going to do they better buff the alpha damage back to compensate for the delay time, remove the delay time all together or simply revert back to the old RTS version with the "unlimited" hanger capacity we have in the new carrier "rework" now so as to make carrier play more "forgiving"

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2 minutes ago, The_Big_Red_1 said:

this was the point i was trying to say before one of the moderators irrationally and impulsively removed it. things are getting worse for carriers not better. WG is already breaking something already broken but i am not planning on writing off carriers just yet. if they are going to do what they say they are going to do they better buff the alpha damage back to compensate for the delay time, remove the delay time all together or simply revert back to the old RTS version with the "unlimited" hanger capacity we have in the new carrier "rework" now so as to make carrier play more "forgiving"

I think we are getting close to the point where the rework needs to be scrapped and return to RTS with some QoL improvements. I would really enjoy the crying of DDs who die from one TB run at the start of the game.

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11 minutes ago, JustAdapt said:

I think we are getting close to the point where the rework needs to be scrapped and return to RTS with some QoL improvements. I would really enjoy the crying of DDs who die from one TB run at the start of the game.

WG must be embarrassed/ashamed about this entire "situation": A LOT of money, time and effort was put into this "rework" and in the end turned up doing more harm than good complete opposite of what was originally intended. i hope WoWs does not end up like WoWp that is a disaster waiting to happen...

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2 hours ago, HMS_Formidable said:

Here's the thing: I don't just play CV. I don't just play DD. I don't just play CA and I don't just play BB.

So - yes: I have tried to take out a CV by stealthing around in my DD. It doesn't work every time. But it's worked enough times to make the attempt worthwhile.

So - yes: I have tried to take out a CV by exploiting a gap (usually when the enemy team goes and hugs the edge of a map) and pushing through enemy lines. Harder than in a DD, but achievable.

So - yes: I have tried to take out a CV by asking my carrier to spot their carrier to see if it was in sniping range of my BB. I found this easier than I thought. At the very least it forces the enemy CV to the back of the map (greater flight times).

And yes, I've attacked lone DDs and BBs regularly with my CV. Except in lower tiers, I've learnt to leave just about all T8+ CA alone... They simply melt my squadrons every time. I've also learnt to leave grouped ships alone. And which ships have what sort of AA. I've also learnt that damaged ships usually have less functional AA, so I go after them. And that I can be more aggressive in the second half of the game, and not so much the first. Which is why I have to be very careful about not losing too many aircraft too quickly.

My carrier has been stealth hunted by DDs.

My carrier has been over-run by outflanking CA.

My carrier has been sniped by well positioned BB.

(Probably because I drive RN carriers, which I find need to get closer for faster squadron turn-around times due to their slow aircraft speeds ... perhaps there is a lesson to be learnt there?)

I don't think I was referring to you, but interesting anyway.

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6 minutes ago, Ericson38 said:

I don't think I was referring to you, but interesting anyway.

I was rseponding to the discussion 

. Never assumed you were taking direct to me

 

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3 hours ago, HMS_Formidable said:

Here's the thing: I don't just play CV. I don't just play DD. I don't just play CA and I don't just play BB.

So - yes: I have tried to take out a CV by stealthing around in my DD. It doesn't work every time. But it's worked enough times to make the attempt worthwhile.

So - yes: I have tried to take out a CV by exploiting a gap (usually when the enemy team goes and hugs the edge of a map) and pushing through enemy lines. Harder than in a DD, but achievable.

So - yes: I have tried to take out a CV by asking my carrier to spot their carrier to see if it was in sniping range of my BB. I found this easier than I thought. At the very least it forces the enemy CV to the back of the map (greater flight times).

And yes, I've attacked lone DDs and BBs regularly with my CV. Except in lower tiers, I've learnt to leave just about all T8+ CA alone... They simply melt my squadrons every time. I've also learnt to leave grouped ships alone. And which ships have what sort of AA. I've also learnt that damaged ships usually have less functional AA, so I go after them. And that I can be more aggressive in the second half of the game, and not so much the first. Which is why I have to be very careful about not losing too many aircraft too quickly.

My carrier has been stealth hunted by DDs.

My carrier has been over-run by outflanking CA.

My carrier has been sniped by well positioned BB.

(Probably because I drive RN carriers, which I find need to get closer for faster squadron turn-around times due to their slow aircraft speeds ... perhaps there is a lesson to be learnt there?)

I have also played all types of ships. I have sunk CVs 3 times maybe in a 100 games against them. To me, they ruin what was a fairly interesting game. Subs were actualized in WW II also, but I don't see them in the game, nor would I want to, nor PT boats.

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