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SgtBilko_7

Is there a reason we can't just make CVs +/- 1 Matchmaking

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As the title says.  It would help T8s across the board and it would balance out T10 CVs against ships that can have some chance of slowing them down.  I also think 1 per side is enough at all tiers, but that's a another issue.

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No reason what so ever and that should be implemented also for the good of the game and keeping the player population content and a bit more happy then they are at present in this CV mess ………….. 

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1 minute ago, RipNuN2 said:

Too many CVs in the queue for this to work.

That's pretty much it. 

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Carriers need to be subject to the same matchmaking as everyone else. 

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CVs don’t deserve any special treatment, either everyone gets +-1 or no one does(not counting the special mm that T4 gets). 

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Just now, Desertfox51 said:

CVs don’t deserve any special treatment, either everyone gets +-1 or no one does(not counting the special mm that T4 gets). 

Then I vote everyone; this game's balance problems are diluted a great deal when not having to balance around being +2 tiers or -2 Tiers.

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6 minutes ago, Desertfox51 said:

CVs don’t deserve any special treatment, either everyone gets +-1 or no one does(not counting the special mm that T4 gets). 

I would agree with this but the one problem I have is for CV's their are no odd tiers for CV just 4 6 8 and 10 so why not have a +1 or -1 will stop a t8 from crying when a midway spanks him t8 cv will not worry about t10 AA. So they already have treatment. May as well try to make it better for both parties. Know you will not complain if you would never have to worry about seeing a t10 cv in a t8 match. 

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The argument that it has to be everyone or no one is just based in crying and completely invalid.  There are T8 ships that can compete in T10 matches when played well.  Up tiered CVs die horribly and downtiered CVs punish everything.  Narrowing their spread makes them easier to balance.  I also believe this would lead to more T8s being pulled into 8-9 battles to get T8 CVs through the queue.  The max wait time I've had for a CV it like 1 min so it shouldn't affect much in the way of having too many in the queue.  T8 games can still get 4 CVs per match and should clear it out quickly.

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27 minutes ago, Athrun2021 said:

I would agree with this but the one problem I have is for CV's their are no odd tiers for CV just 4 6 8 and 10 so why not have a +1 or -1 will stop a t8 from crying when a midway spanks him t8 cv will not worry about t10 AA. So they already have treatment. May as well try to make it better for both parties. Know you will not complain if you would never have to worry about seeing a t10 cv in a t8 match. 

My problem is that doing also this like only having even tiered CVs, and the proposed +-1 just shows that the class doesn’t fit. How can you have a relatively balanced game, when there are two sets of rules for the multiplayer. All the surface ships follow the same rules for the most part, and then CVs have there own rules. 

 Continue to try and shoe horn the class in is bad for the game. 

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26 minutes ago, SgtBilko_7 said:

The argument that it has to be everyone or no one is just based in crying and completely invalid.  There are T8 ships that can compete in T10 matches when played well.  Up tiered CVs die horribly and downtiered CVs punish everything.  Narrowing their spread makes them easier to balance.  I also believe this would lead to more T8s being pulled into 8-9 battles to get T8 CVs through the queue.  The max wait time I've had for a CV it like 1 min so it shouldn't affect much in the way of having too many in the queue.  T8 games can still get 4 CVs per match and should clear it out quickly.

LOL no it isn't. You have it backwards, carrier players whining and crying about matchmaking is ridiculous. You can damage stuff just like any other class who is low tier can do. Git gud. Fact is, matchmaking kind of sucks, really no getting around that no matter which type of ship you choose to play. 

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2 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

LOL no it isn't. You have it backwards, carrier players whining and crying about matchmaking is ridiculous. You can damage stuff just like any other class who is low tier can do. Git gud. Fact is, matchmaking kind of sucks, really no getting around that no matter which type of ship you choose to play. 

Damaging things and being able to affect impactful gameplay without being overpowered are not the same things at all.  Go ahead and just tell people to 'git gud' or you could offer a solution like an adult.  There's no reason we can't try to solve some of MMs issues even if we don't fix all of them.  I'm not great in CVs, but I understand the mechanics well enough to be at least average.

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1 hour ago, SgtBilko_7 said:

As the title says.  It would help T8s across the board and it would balance out T10 CVs against ships that can have some chance of slowing them down.  I also think 1 per side is enough at all tiers, but that's a another issue.

No ship type deserves special MM consideration one way or another.

Fair is fair.

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13 minutes ago, Desertfox51 said:

My problem is that doing also this like only having even tiered CVs, and the proposed +-1 just shows that the class doesn’t fit. How can you have a relatively balanced game, when there are two sets of rules for the multiplayer. All the surface ships follow the same rules for the most part, and then CVs have there own rules. 

 Continue to try and shoe horn the class in is bad for the game. 

This game has a ton of different rules that only apply to each class.  That is how you balance games.  Otherwise, every ship would have equal spotting, the same guns, and essentially be a copy of each other.  It would be completely boring.

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I need to start saving my responses so I can just copy/paste the next time this thread pops up.

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6 minutes ago, SgtBilko_7 said:

Damaging things and being able to affect impactful gameplay without being overpowered are not the same things at all.  Go ahead and just tell people to 'git gud' or you could offer a solution like an adult.  There's no reason we can't try to solve some of MMs issues even if we don't fix all of them.  I'm not great in CVs, but I understand the mechanics well enough to be at least average.

Wargaming consistently uses the term "git gud" when responding to player complaints/problems. Personally I don't care for it but since it is acceptable for them to say it, I feel it is appropriate. Matchmaking sucks, it has always sucked. Wargaming does not see it as a problem. Wanting to change matchmaking just for one type of ship is wrong. Giving carriers preferential treatment is wrong. Suck it up like everyone else or fix matchmaking for everyone. It is that simple. 

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This post is baffling.  People are up in arms about CVs and a proposal that would very effectively balance CVs is met with "CVs can't be special"  I am not a fan of how they are currently implemented.  I am simply trying to discuss ways to make it better.  They should be in game and it is good they have a unique role.  They just need to be better balanced into the game so we don't just have T1 blob games with bigger guns.  Narrowing the spread means that damage output can be manipulated more accurately so that it balances against comparable ships instead of ships that it either completely outclasses (those that are -2) or ships that completely outclass it (those that are +2).  You could balance AA better, but that is much harder to do vs. just limiting the MM.

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Also, if there were enough population on the server to support +/-1 MM, I think they would do it because it would be so much easier for them.  There isn't so we are stuck with how it is.  There are half as many CV tiers though so +/-1 should be doable and reasonable.

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Because you can’t implement +1/-1 for CVs without implementing it for every class. It’s great in theory, but a non-starter in practice.

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15 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Because you can’t implement +1/-1 for CVs without implementing it for every class. It’s great in theory, but a non-starter in practice.

So people keep saying things like that, but I would like someone to actually provide a valid argument as to why not.  It seems to me it would only be a simple line of code to change that.

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14 minutes ago, SgtBilko_7 said:

So people keep saying things like that, but I would like someone to actually provide a valid argument as to why not.  It seems to me it would only be a simple line of code to change that.

Well of course they could do it and you are right, it would probably be pretty easy to do so. They just need to tweak the code a bit and voila, all done. The question is why? Everyone suffers from crappy MM, carriers shouldn't get a pass. It sucks to be low tier in a CV just like it sucks to be low tier in a CL/CA. Matchmaking is a big reason I quit playing PvP except to grind stock ships and to farm rewards. Try playing Omaha against tier 7s... When I first started, I thought the Yorck was a BB because they just kept eating me alive.... 

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But I actually think it would help ships too and not just CVs.  It means that T8s dont have to just get deleted by Midways etc.

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59 minutes ago, SgtBilko_7 said:

So people keep saying things like that, but I would like someone to actually provide a valid argument as to why not.  It seems to me it would only be a simple line of code to change that.

It's not so much that it's impossible, but that it would have a series of negative side effects.

If CV matches were all +/-1 (from the CV's perspective), then CVs will either always be mid tier or one tier up/down.  Surface ships in that same match can still be two tiers up/down, like currently.  So far so good.  The problem is tier 10.

A t10 CV will force a match with no t8 ships at all.  In exchange MM will hoover up all the t9 ships it has in queue if they can't make a full t10 game quickly.  So the net effect is that t10 games will be more self contained, and the pool of t8 ships in queue will increase.  T9 will also almost always be bottom tier.  This might not seem to bad, but it has trickle down effects.
Without many free t9 ships in queue, a T8 CV game will pull mostly tier 8s and whatever t7 ships in to fill the void.  Essentially this would make t8 the new tier 10 for surface ships, where they rarely see higher tier ships than them.  This is inevitable unless the population of t9 ships increases to be more equal to t8 and t10.
I can't really analyze the low/mid tiers without going too far into the realm of conjecture, but it's likely that MM bands will appear.  A t10 CV game must pull t9 surface ships.  A t4 CV game must be only t3/4 or t4/5.  As long as the population of players concentrates in certain tiers, then the less popular tiers around it will be negatively impacted by +1/-1 CV MM.  

Of course this could all change based on population numbers.  But the potential for everything to go wrong is there.  Any time there's not enough population in a certain tier, and suddenly CVs games force MM to put together teams with only two tiers.  So effectively, you can't give only CVs limited MM, because by extension they give it to everyone else.

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5 hours ago, _RC1138 said:

Then I vote everyone; this game's balance problems are diluted a great deal when not having to balance around being +2 tiers or -2 Tiers.

Yes! And we would get better ship variety too because people could play ships that have been port Queens from being up tiered 2 tiers all the time. I could finally start playing my extensive collection of t6s....

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