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dimzzy

No love for Graf

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I got GZ from a crate and tried to love it. I watched some videos, did read some articles. Tried various tactics--focus on torp planes, focus on BBs, being aggressive with secondaries, focus on support, focus on damage or not focus on anything in particular. After ~20 games I still don't get this ship. The major problem is that the amount of damage it could do is very limited. Speed is supposed to compensate for this but when I watched Enterprise replays it feels that that CV does significantly more damage while planes speed is only marginally slower. And speed is not that big advantage either: I spent more time turning for second attack while US planes turn almost instantly, so in practice they arrive a bit later but do drops faster so the speed advantage of German planes is questionable. Overall it feels that I'm flying back and forth a lot doing nothing.

I also got Furious from the last campaign. I had a rough start but now I'm fine with it. I think now I'm doing more damage in Furious when in GZ though it's two tiers lower.

Specifically for GZ:

Rocket planes: very fragile and fire only decent amount of rockets. When I go after DDs I miss a lot, cruisers shred planes like crazy and BBs like "lol--what was that damage again?"--they just don't notice it.

Bombers: it's kind of satisfying to hit citadels but you only drop two bombs per strike. I'm not joking--two. And they mostly overpen or do no damage.

Torpedo planes: they feel fine but again--the amount of damage they do is just pathetic. When you connect all three torps they do less damage when one DD torp. And flood chance is bad.

I also tried to make more use of secondaries but DDs quickly figure out that they should not get closer than 10km and just rain fire from safe distance. If I turn their way--they send torps.

I think I will try to focus on lone BBs sitting in the back to raise my average damage but again--it does not look like a lot of fun and honestly it does not look like a winning strategy. I'd love to find some good videos to learn but so far the amount of content is rather limited.

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The GZ dmg is a joke, if the MM hate you and dont give you a good targers you probably dont going do much.

The torpedo planes are fast but the dmg is like you say pathetic.

The bombers are terrible sometimes, just 2 bombs and you can miss everthing easly (when not just overpen) when the rng hate you (most of time0

The rocket planes are a joke but they do some dmg on dds.

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Thought this was a graf spee post for a moment

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I just bought it yesterday and spend most of the day playing it. It's ok. The rocket planes are better than some, worse than some others. They are just average and are probably the least interesting part of GZ's toolbox.

The TBs are fun, but you have to perform slashing attacks with them. They are very fast, but they turn like a semi with broken steering. Basically, you line up ahead of time, dash in, drop, and dash out. You get three torps, but they don't really hit hard. You can get a lot of hits but you need to because the damage is so low. If you do it well though your most of your planes will survive. 

The DBs do hit hard, but with 2 bombs it has a lot of the inaccuracy problems that Shokaku has. Also the circular bomb reticule doesn't help narrow down where the bombs will actually go like elliptical ones do. Dispersion on the bombs is unpleasant. I've managed hard citadel hits on BBs, but I have also completely missed BBs even when the reticule is as cleanly over the target as you can get. Once nice trait is the DBs are FAST. They don't climb first like other DBs do so they don't hover over the target long. They just dash in, drop, and dash away like the British bombers do. There is a bit of a learning curve for where to start the drop, but the DBs do their job quickly. I've found angling the camera down helps with aim. 

Overall, it is ok. I think Enterprise is better all around and more forgiving to play, but GZ is perfectly fine. Honestly, the premium CVs are all at least ok. I am not a fan of Kaga but that is more my playstyle. 

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1 hour ago, Koogus said:

Thought this was a graf spee post for a moment

Me too !

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I'm with Haze on this one. I wasn't that big on the thing either before or even when I bought it the other day. Then I read on the wiki something about using the secondaries in the late game and figured, 'shoot, why not?'. I was not disappointed. Suddenly, it went from just above Saipan in interest level (I still haven't actually bothered to get Saipan and don't plan to unless I somehow end up with cash to burn and nothing better to do with it).

https://replayswows.com/replay/47375#stats

Admittedly, this is a co-op battle, but that matters little to me for a couple of reasons. First, I live in co-op anyways after leaving an increasingly static and stressful random meta. Second, CV play is actually harder in co-op, because bots move in groups and you have less time to work with because your teammates tend to gobble up everything quickly. Finally, bots love to target CVs and DDs above all else if they are spotted, even if there are bigger threats closer to them. 

I am having the most fun I've ever had in a CV with the GZ, and it's funny because I almost didn't buy it. I am still peeved over the missing catapults, and it would have been nice to have Stukas, even if the stats had to be tweaked to the realm of fantasy. The promo stuff on the sale notice even still mentioned the Stukas as a feature. On the other hand, I have always loved the FW-190, and the TA-152 is a further development of that design, so I am less upset about the Stuka issue than the missing catapults.

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I've considered trying to get my money back for GZ.     I'm experienced with the new CVs and I know what I like and what I don't like and what i think works and what doesn't....and to me, GZ is just awful, not as terrible as the Kaga is, but bad.

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3 hours ago, Tzarevitch said:

I just bought it yesterday and spend most of the day playing it. It's ok. The rocket planes are better than some, worse than some others. They are just average and are probably the least interesting part of GZ's toolbox.

And you still manage to average 60k. Well, given only two games but still. After all my experiments I'm around 34k and this is very sad...

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Oh, wrong Graf.  Thought this was going to be a Graf Spee thread or maybe even a High School Fleet thread....

Bummer

The real question is this:  Is the GZ better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick?

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5 hours ago, Koogus said:

Thought this was a graf spee post for a moment

Same here, Graff Spee needs some love.

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Yeah she's kinda sad right now,  Enterprise is straight better in everyday minus speed and it doesn't matter with the poor health of Grafs planes. If it's not a lone tier 8 your trying to attack you lose your planes.

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   Durn, I'm doing well in this ship and feel like I've "unlocked" it a bit, but wth, I'll give this up. Speaking ONLY of the TB's, try this. Identify BB's or CA's that don't have anyone too close to them, say 1 or 2 km. Make sure nobody is beyond them at all. Line them up more or less 90 degrees to you and 10km away. Mash the gas and don't let go. Start your attack run immediately, just ahead of them, your pattern will slowly close then rapidly speed up if you don't adjust too much. Release and keep going, full power. After you are 6km or so beyond them, you can initiate a turn in their direction but highly suggest you apex that turn out to 10 km or so and initiate another run. It takes a while to learn the drop distance, this is definitely one of those ships that rewards torp acceleration. You can drop darn near any ship and your planes will only take light to moderate damage, it's almost like you are using Me 262's. Torp damage is light and flood chance is small but definitely adds up. If you are top tier, you can do this literally the entire game. If you are in a T10 match, you will have to mix in D/B's, and of course, use attack aircraft as necessary for team duties and DD hunting. Good luck, and with some practice, the ship will definitely feel more dominant.

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Despite some understandable misgivings about certain qualities of the different Premium CVs, their performance has been strangely close to each other.

NKBCGcp.jpg

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Ran into a battle with an excellent GZ player, he was hitting like a hammer.

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No worries guys, they’re gonna nerf your newly bought premium carriers, the first launch will now be 30 seconds after the battle starts.

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2 hours ago, Roadrider7021 said:

   Durn, I'm doing well in this ship and feel like I've "unlocked" it a bit, but wth, I'll give this up. Speaking ONLY of the TB's, try this. Identify BB's or CA's that don't have anyone too close to them, say 1 or 2 km. Make sure nobody is beyond them at all. Line them up more or less 90 degrees to you and 10km away. Mash the gas and don't let go. Start your attack run immediately, just ahead of them, your pattern will slowly close then rapidly speed up if you don't adjust too much. Release and keep going, full power. After you are 6km or so beyond them, you can initiate a turn in their direction but highly suggest you apex that turn out to 10 km or so and initiate another run. It takes a while to learn the drop distance, this is definitely one of those ships that rewards torp acceleration. You can drop darn near any ship and your planes will only take light to moderate damage, it's almost like you are using Me 262's. Torp damage is light and flood chance is small but definitely adds up. If you are top tier, you can do this literally the entire game. If you are in a T10 match, you will have to mix in D/B's, and of course, use attack aircraft as necessary for team duties and DD hunting. Good luck, and with some practice, the ship will definitely feel more dominant.

Ah—that’s called chain drops if I’m not mistaken. That’s one of the things on my todo list )))

Thank you!

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1 hour ago, SirMoric said:

No worries guys, they’re gonna nerf your newly bought premium carriers, the first launch will now be 30 seconds after the battle starts.

That’s not a problem at all.

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11 hours ago, dimzzy said:

That’s not a problem at all.

But it was a problem when they wanted to nerf the Gulio Cesare?

Sometimes I don’t get the community?

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Maybe Graf Zeppelin and Kaga should. E moved down to T7 or T6

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12 hours ago, SirMoric said:

No worries guys, they’re gonna nerf your newly bought premium carriers, the first launch will now be 30 seconds after the battle starts.

As it should've been from the start.  Every other ship starts out having to load its main battery and torps, why would the CVs be any different?

I've yet to hear the stuka siren in game amd the GZs seem to be doing as well as the other Tier VIIIs.  Especially when I am in a Tier VI ship, lol.

I am never anygood in a ship til I have around a million xp in her.  Even then I would only say that I am an average player.

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22 hours ago, dimzzy said:

I got GZ from a crate and tried to love it. I watched some videos, did read some articles. Tried various tactics--focus on torp planes, focus on BBs, being aggressive with secondaries, focus on support, focus on damage or not focus on anything in particular. After ~20 games I still don't get this ship. The major problem is that the amount of damage it could do is very limited. Speed is supposed to compensate for this but when I watched Enterprise replays it feels that that CV does significantly more damage while planes speed is only marginally slower. And speed is not that big advantage either: I spent more time turning for second attack while US planes turn almost instantly, so in practice they arrive a bit later but do drops faster so the speed advantage of German planes is questionable. Overall it feels that I'm flying back and forth a lot doing nothing.

I also got Furious from the last campaign. I had a rough start but now I'm fine with it. I think now I'm doing more damage in Furious when in GZ though it's two tiers lower.

Specifically for GZ:

Rocket planes: very fragile and fire only decent amount of rockets. When I go after DDs I miss a lot, cruisers shred planes like crazy and BBs like "lol--what was that damage again?"--they just don't notice it.

Bombers: it's kind of satisfying to hit citadels but you only drop two bombs per strike. I'm not joking--two. And they mostly overpen or do no damage.

Torpedo planes: they feel fine but again--the amount of damage they do is just pathetic. When you connect all three torps they do less damage when one DD torp. And flood chance is bad.

I also tried to make more use of secondaries but DDs quickly figure out that they should not get closer than 10km and just rain fire from safe distance. If I turn their way--they send torps.

I think I will try to focus on lone BBs sitting in the back to raise my average damage but again--it does not look like a lot of fun and honestly it does not look like a winning strategy. I'd love to find some good videos to learn but so far the amount of content is rather limited.

AdmiralHattori is the only youtuber that does great. He has hit the f key over ships and gets then back. 

His vids are gold.

Edited by jags_domain
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2 hours ago, comtedumas said:

Maybe Graf Zeppelin and Kaga should. E moved down to T7 or T6

GZ, as planned was basically a T6-T7 carrier. Her aircraft capacity was rather small for such a big ship and the aircraft were rather outdated. She would never have been a match for ships like Enterprise or Shokaku. They did some handwaving to get her to T8. That's fine though. As she is, she is perfectly fine for T8. My only issue with her is the bomb reticule is terrible. Most bomb reticules give you an oval which you can align with the ship to get an idea where the bombs will tend to go. GZ's circular one doesn't fit over anything but the fattest BBs so even with your best aim there is still a chance that bombs will drop to the edge of the circle and thus miss completely or deflect off of the outer hull. Couple that with only 2 bombs means you get a lot of inaccuracy. Add to that the fact that AP bombs can come in at too shallow an angle to penetrate or deflect off of armored structures on the superstructure means they tend to fail to do damage … a lot. Enterprise is much easier to manage because she drops 3 smaller bombs. You can usually get one of them to hit. The best news about GZ's DBs is they are very fast and their bombing animation is really fast. You can use them for scouting and they are quick enough to drop that they can run away from fighters and escape being in AA too long. 

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2 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

GZ, as planned was basically a T6-T7 carrier. Her aircraft capacity was rather small for such a big ship and the aircraft were rather outdated. She would never have been a match for ships like Enterprise or Shokaku. They did some handwaving to get her to T8. That's fine though. As she is, she is perfectly fine for T8. My only issue with her is the bomb reticule is terrible. Most bomb reticules give you an oval which you can align with the ship to get an idea where the bombs will tend to go. GZ's circular one doesn't fit over anything but the fattest BBs so even with your best aim there is still a chance that bombs will drop to the edge of the circle and thus miss completely or deflect off of the outer hull. Couple that with only 2 bombs means you get a lot of inaccuracy. Add to that the fact that AP bombs can come in at too shallow an angle to penetrate or deflect off of armored structures on the superstructure means they tend to fail to do damage … a lot. Enterprise is much easier to manage because she drops 3 smaller bombs. You can usually get one of them to hit. The best news about GZ's DBs is they are very fast and their bombing animation is really fast. You can use them for scouting and they are quick enough to drop that they can run away from fighters and escape being in AA too long. 

   I hear you on the bomb reticule for sure. Sometimes you feel like hey, I can make a living off this ap bomber, then your last 2 great drops are matched by egg shells and you're like crap.

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2 hours ago, SirMoric said:

But it was a problem when they wanted to nerf the Gulio Cesare?

Sometimes I don’t get the community?

When they nerf a single premium ship it is a problem.  When they make changes across entire class it’s different.

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