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General_Strom

OK question 2 about DDs, smoke when to use it?

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I use smoke in front my BBs and Cruisers. I also pop it when I need to escape.  I find at times my team mates will just go by the smoke I lay.  Do I need to pop the smoke on them, close in front of, or when and where to be effective for my team mates?

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I pop smoke in front of pushing team mates, however you need to spot for them. If you sit in your own smoke, nobody can see anything and your own team will avoid it in fear of torps. It's best if you tell them in chat first, before laying smoke. Again, laying smoke is not enough, you need to be ahead and to the side to spot torps so your smoke is effective in masking your team and they get information on the red team.

I also smoke ships that are focused and fleeing due to low hitpoints. Again, talk in chat and let that player know. You need to be ahead of his retreat so he can slow down and glide into it, and ask him to stop firing.

Edited by _Rumple_
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Because of the smoke firing bloom, most ships can't actually benefit from a DD smoking them, in fact, often all it does is blind them meaning your smoke is more useful to the enemy than your own team. Knowing what cruisers have workable smoke firing blooms and communicating when and where you will smoke is handy.

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I use smoke for myself as a DD primarily in two scenarios:

1. My main use of it is to disengage when I've pushed too far, or the enemy fleet shows up in greater numbers than expected and I need to hastily retreat. I find myself using smoke far more in a defensive manner than offensive.

2.  If there is another ship with or near me that is spotting enemies, I will deploy smoke and fire until said friendly is no longer able to spot and we lose vision, then I'll move out and resume spotting for the team.

37 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

Because of the smoke firing bloom, most ships can't actually benefit from a DD smoking them, in fact, often all it does is blind them meaning your smoke is more useful to the enemy than your own team. Knowing what cruisers have workable smoke firing blooms and communicating when and where you will smoke is handy.

Absolutely right; it's not like the old days when everyone wanted a smoke screen to fire from concealment.  If I see a cruiser actively pushing forward and I have a smoke available, I will deploy it for them. If I see a BB getting torn up by the enemy team and trying to disengage, I will deploy it for them. I usually will not deploy it for a BB that is pushing unless asked, because their smoke firing penalty will all but negate the concealment advantage as soon as they fire.

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50 minutes ago, General_Strom said:

I use smoke in front my BBs and Cruisers. I also pop it when I need to escape.  I find at times my team mates will just go by the smoke I lay.  Do I need to pop the smoke on them, close in front of, or when and where to be effective for my team mates?

I don't often smoke my team anymore. In very broad and general terms, I've had way too many teammates drive right through the smoke and ignore it. When that happens, it's a complete waste, and you don't have all that many smoke charges.

 

Use of smoke also depends on which DDs you're in; IJN is very different than USN or German which is very different than British, etc.

 

So...

 

1. Escape. When you're in trouble, there are sometimes no other options but to smoke-up and hope for the best, or smoke-up to disengage  and run away. "He that fights and runs away, lives to fight another day." Just remember, if you smoke-up in front of a French or Russian DD, you're not going to simply outrun them.

2. Support. I will smoke someone if I can when they ask. If you hear the, "Set a smoke screen", then look around and see who's asking and if you can get to them quickly enough. But I generally don't smoke allies if they don't ask for it or they aren't in pretty bad trouble.

3. Subterfuge. NEVER underestimate the value of a smoke screen as a decoy. I had a long running battle with a guy from the forums once, and he's REALLY good, and I threw every trick in the book at him. I set a decoy smoke screen and he turned toward it with the intent of hydro-spotting me. I ran on, and doubled back after a bit and eventually got him with a couple of torps. Some people will look at smoke and charge it, some will flee, but the use as a decoy is situational but often quite valuable.

4. DOT. The RN DDs are built to use their smoke as a fire base; Smoke-shoot-run-repeat. USN can be quite good with this as well. After that, it drops off relative to the utility of the smoke-shoot-run-repeat idea. But to make this work, it helps to have someone else spotting. Can't tell you the number of times I've smoked-up to start shooting and all of the bad guys vanished. I thought one or two of my allies were able to see them, but no...

 

 

Here's another tip that's off topic. Many people run the captain skill Priority Target. That gives you an indicator of how many ships are aiming at you. The trick is, when you hit 3 to switch to torps, the number drops by one. If you immediately hit 1 to go back to guns, the number goes back up by one. This will cause the enemy ship start turning and your torps will go no where near the target. There are two ways around this. First, press early and leave it on after you drop your torps. This way, Priority Target isn't giving the target captain any feedback, so he's less likely to turn away. The second method is to let fly one set of torps when you do this trick, and hold the second or third sets until the target turns to avoid the first. If they don't start wiggling, then you have a chance of hitting them and your remaining torps are ready for another target. If they do start wiggling, then you have more torps ready when they steady-up on a new course. I also used this trick against the guy in number 3 above, but it's still harder to hit them while manipulating the 3 button.

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1 hour ago, General_Strom said:

I use smoke in front my BBs and Cruisers. I also pop it when I need to escape.  I find at times my team mates will just go by the smoke I lay.  Do I need to pop the smoke on them, close in front of, or when and where to be effective for my team mates?

Using the "set a smoke screen" quick command will let your teammate know you are willing to smoke for them...wait for a reply of either affirmative or negative & if no reply save it as they aren't understanding & will more than likely just sail right through it. Occasionally you will get people belittling you for asking for smoke when you are the DD w/smoke but most players understand the prompt nowadays.

As for where to set it...make it somewhere they will be able to either slow or stop in & still have targets that you will be able to keep spotting for them but not so far out in the open (unless they are in need of a quick disengagement) that they will be vulnerable to tops spam or easy sniping (in other words an angle that allows them to fire at the targets you have spotted but ideally gives them the ability to stay angled while in the smoke so they aren't an easy cit hit from those that have the ability to hit targets in smoke).

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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1 hour ago, General_Strom said:

I use smoke in front my BBs and Cruisers. I also pop it when I need to escape.  I find at times my team mates will just go by the smoke I lay.  Do I need to pop the smoke on them, close in front of, or when and where to be effective for my team mates?

Don't pop it in front of them unless it looks like they are getting pounded and trying to escape. Smoke doesn't really cover larger ships anymore if they keep firing. If you do drop it in front of them you really need to stay on the enemy-side of it to keep vision otherwise you blind your team.

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Laying smoke for teammates is tricky.  It's best to get some sort of confirmation before wasting it on them.  I'm like you and have layed out a good smoke and they just drive right through.  You also have to remember that battleships can still be spotted in smoke from very far away so it's not very useful in a lot of cases.  Cruisers are usually more likely to stop and use your smoke.

In high tiers I will never use smoke while in radar range for myself or a friendly because that is basically just an invitation to hit the radar button and kill me or my teammates. 

I normally use it as a tool to either disengage from a fight with other DDs or from a CV. or I use it to provide cover for a deserving cruiser that is actually getting stuck into the fight like a des Moines or zao or Wooster that is wanting to move forward and not holding behind an island.  Rarely I will use it to cover a retreating a low health BB that needs to exit the fight if they are chatting and agree to silence their guns.

When driving USN or IJN gunboat DDs and I have another spotter and everything is safe i will lay a smoke for myself and burn BBs silly to the ground...but I dont stay longer than safe.  It's fairly rare that I get to do this for the full duration of the smoke.

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6 hours ago, General_Strom said:

I use smoke in front my BBs and Cruisers. I also pop it when I need to escape.  I find at times my team mates will just go by the smoke I lay.  Do I need to pop the smoke on them, close in front of, or when and where to be effective for my team mates?

Nobody wants smoke and if you sit in it you'll die :)

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I've had way too many teammates drive right through the smoke and ignore it.

DD drivers rarely give BB's the room they need to take advantage of the smoke. When the smoke is too close and the BB attempts to stop it will pass through the smoke and exit the other side as a sitting duck.

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6 hours ago, Grflrgl said:

I don't often smoke my team anymore. In very broad and general terms, I've had way too many teammates drive right through the smoke and ignore it. When that happens, it's a complete waste, and you don't have all that many smoke charges.

 

Use of smoke also depends on which DDs you're in; IJN is very different than USN or German which is very different than British, etc.

 

So...

 

1. Escape. When you're in trouble, there are sometimes no other options but to smoke-up and hope for the best, or smoke-up to disengage  and run away. "He that fights and runs away, lives to fight another day." Just remember, if you smoke-up in front of a French or Russian DD, you're not going to simply outrun them.

2. Support. I will smoke someone if I can when they ask. If you hear the, "Set a smoke screen", then look around and see who's asking and if you can get to them quickly enough. But I generally don't smoke allies if they don't ask for it or they aren't in pretty bad trouble.

3. Subterfuge. NEVER underestimate the value of a smoke screen as a decoy. I had a long running battle with a guy from the forums once, and he's REALLY good, and I threw every trick in the book at him. I set a decoy smoke screen and he turned toward it with the intent of hydro-spotting me. I ran on, and doubled back after a bit and eventually got him with a couple of torps. Some people will look at smoke and charge it, some will flee, but the use as a decoy is situational but often quite valuable.

4. DOT. The RN DDs are built to use their smoke as a fire base; Smoke-shoot-run-repeat. USN can be quite good with this as well. After that, it drops off relative to the utility of the smoke-shoot-run-repeat idea. But to make this work, it helps to have someone else spotting. Can't tell you the number of times I've smoked-up to start shooting and all of the bad guys vanished. I thought one or two of my allies were able to see them, but no...

 

 

Here's another tip that's off topic. Many people run the captain skill Priority Target. That gives you an indicator of how many ships are aiming at you. The trick is, when you hit 3 to switch to torps, the number drops by one. If you immediately hit 1 to go back to guns, the number goes back up by one. This will cause the enemy ship start turning and your torps will go no where near the target. There are two ways around this. First, press early and leave it on after you drop your torps. This way, Priority Target isn't giving the target captain any feedback, so he's less likely to turn away. The second method is to let fly one set of torps when you do this trick, and hold the second or third sets until the target turns to avoid the first. If they don't start wiggling, then you have a chance of hitting them and your remaining torps are ready for another target. If they do start wiggling, then you have more torps ready when they steady-up on a new course. I also used this trick against the guy in number 3 above, but it's still harder to hit them while manipulating the 3 button.

All of this. And as an addendum to subterfuge: hiding BEHIND your smoke rather than in it. Can give you more wiggle room, escape options, throw off blind incoming fire... can also throw off incoming torps and let you see potential flankers.

Edited by Xanshin

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