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Gneisenau013

Man Battlestations Monday - Airstrike Defense

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Image result for anti aircraft navy world war 2

*pictured - USS Savannah (CL-42) providing anti-aircraft cover for Operation Avalanche off the coast of Sicily on September 10, 1943*

Are you re-equipping  your Fleet and re-training your crews to counter incoming airstrikes?

Fleet actions are seeing an increase of aircraft harassing and laying destruction on Allied warships.

While some continue on course with their current crew and load-out, others are re-arming and preparing their crews for the terror from the sky.

When an incoming airstrike approaches, are you staying the course or shifting your firepower towards the sky?

"Flying is hours and hours of boredom sprinkled with a few seconds of sheer terror." - Gregory "Pappy" Boyington, U.S. Marine Corps

#manbattlestationsmonday

#anchorsaweigh

 

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No, because none of it matters. The only AA ability that works on a competent CV player is BFT, and it's only 10%. Everything else (including AFT, which costs even more points) just kills flak-munchers even deader, and that's pointless.

What I actually see when I go out now is that people have re-equipped their entire freaking teams into Salems, Minos, and Republiques. Which is a loss for every single person who clicks Battle.

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I havent done much of anything different... But with the new soft cap and premiums, I am consistently getting 1 CV a battle. I have been wanting consistency for planes for a while. If it stays consistent, AFT and BFT will gain a lot of value for me over CE and some other tanking skills. Only time will tell. Like @Edgecase said, AFT is only so useful, and I would much rather have BoS and SI on my BBs than the ability to maybe scare away a few puny planes.

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8 minutes ago, Gneisenau013 said:

Image result for anti aircraft navy world war 2

*pictured - USS Savannah (CL-42) providing anti-aircraft cover for Operation Avalanche off the coast of Sicily on September 10, 1943*

Are you re-equipping  your Fleet and re-training your crews to counter incoming airstrikes?

Fleet actions are seeing an increase of aircraft harassing and laying destruction on Allied warships.

While some continue on course with their current crew and load-out, others are re-arming and preparing their crews for the terror from the sky.

When an incoming airstrike approaches, are you staying the course or shifting your firepower towards the sky?

"Flying is hours and hours of boredom sprinkled with a few seconds of sheer terror." - Gregory "Pappy" Boyington, U.S. Marine Corps

#manbattlestationsmonday

#anchorsaweigh

 

My AA is more than sufficient to deal with the enemy aircraft...

I do not spec for AA:

Gneisnau - secondaries

Colorado - better guns, survival 

Nelson / Iron Duke - survival

Kirov - capital ship support (AA to maximize flak)

Omaha - anti-DD utility build

Nicolas - gunfighter build

Isokaze - stealth torpedo

Caledon - anti-DD

Ranger - anti capital ship

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12 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

No, because none of it matters. The only AA ability that works on a competent CV player is BFT, and it's only 10%. Everything else (including AFT, which costs even more points) just kills flak-munchers even deader, and that's pointless.

 

Yep, pretty much this... I'm mostly resigned to suck it up and make another rage post on the forum later :Smile_sceptic:

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2 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

None.

Best AA defense is positioning so that you dont become the target for the CV in the first place.

:Smile_great:

Yeah, I just try to not go out solo and become a tempting target. 

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12 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

None.

Best AA defense is positioning so that you dont become the target for the CV in the first place.

Exactly.

IF the CV is attacking you, he deems any plane losses to be worth the damage he does. If you would win that exchange, the CV doesnt attack.

The initiative lies entirely with the airplane squadron.

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shot-19.04.12_19.15.06-0430.jpg

I found that even in my Missouri, which has a fairly formidable AA defense rating, I was fighting off waves and waves of attack, dive, level, and torpedo bombers from an Enterprise and Implacable.

They managed to deal 127k+ damage to me but I shot down 98 aircraft. Had I not specced both the captain and ship to AA I don't think I would've survived the battle.

"Victory was never in doubt. Its cost was." - Graves Erksine, U.S. Marine Corps

#anchorsaweigh

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My solution to new CV  AA defense is it's a lot less enjoyment playing WOWs , So now I'm playing the game less  ,  and spending less money due to less playing time  , so in the long run I've been saving my money from this game and started to play other On-line games that catch my interest …….. problem solved ………...

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6 minutes ago, Gneisenau013 said:

shot-19.04.12_19.15.06-0430.jpg

I found that even in my Missouri, which has a fairly formidable AA defense rating, I was fighting off waves and waves of attack, dive, level, and torpedo bombers from an Enterprise and Implacable.

They managed to deal 127k+ damage to me but I shot down 98 aircraft. Had I not specced both the captain and ship to AA I don't think I would've survived the battle.

"Victory was never in doubt. Its cost was." - Graves Erksine, U.S. Marine Corps

#anchorsaweigh

OK, now ask yourself the question my friend:  is this what WoWs is suppose to be?  You fighting off literally hundreds of aircraft instead of fighting ships???  What about those players that don't have that level of AA?  What possible fun could they be experiencing???  None....   Balance?  98 aircraft is balance?  The only ships you can sail are those ships with heavy AA?

Gosh, to answer your original question:  nothing.....there is literally nothing you can do with well over 75% of the ships in this game....  I have 5 ships over 50% AA out of the what, 37 I own?.   At some levels, there is nothing you can do because they don't have AA.....or, AA values like 6 or 9 or 13.....  And, you barely survived with a full AA ship load out and I'm sitting at 13.....?   Nothing.  I'm staying in COOP and until this games figures this out and not spending either....   As a close friend said last night:  "Let's just get this over with.....  Eventually, game play will get soooo bad, they will be forced to do something....."  

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19 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

OK, now ask yourself the question my friend:  is this what WoWs is suppose to be?  You fighting off literally hundreds of aircraft instead of fighting ships???  What about those players that don't have that level of AA?  What possible fun could they be experiencing???  None....   Balance?  98 aircraft is balance?  The only ships you can sail are those ships with heavy AA?

Gosh, to answer your original question:  nothing.....there is literally nothing you can do with well over 75% of the ships in this game....  I have 5 ships over 50% AA out of the what, 37 I own?.   At some levels, there is nothing you can do because they don't have AA.....or, AA values like 6 or 9 or 13.....  And, you barely survived with a full AA ship load out and I'm sitting at 13.....?   Nothing.  I'm staying in COOP and until this games figures this out and not spending either....   As a close friend said last night:  "Let's just get this over with.....  Eventually, game play will get soooo bad, they will be forced to do something....."  

See WW2.

This was the reality of naval combat when in range of aircraft...in fact, it was worse.

Edited by Daniel_Allan_Clark
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43 minutes ago, KURT_WOLFF said:

I've been saving my money from this game and started to play other On-line games that catch my interest

This is exactly what has been concerning me for the last 2-3 months or so.  I've seen too many people move on to other games, and the #1 reason (or the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back) given is the CV re-work.

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35 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

See WW2.

This was the reality of naval combat when in range of aircraft...in fact, it was worse.

Incorrect.

The Japanese had air supremacy for a very short short period of time and in reality only had one major success at sea, when they got Prince of Wales and Repulse.

The Brits had air supremacy at sea in the Atlantic and outside of a lucky torp strike on Bismarck and some spotting were ineffective.

In the Med both sides had lots of aircraft and lost lots of tonnage, but the amount of effort to sink each ton was far and away more than what we see in WoWS.

When the US got rolling, yeah the IJN was hosed, but nothing like the out-sized effect of even one well played Midway in the game.

Consider the Battle off Samar. Center Force A dealt with the combined aerial firepower of all three Taffy groups, plus the incredible achievements of Taffy 3's escort. Thats over 400 aircraft. They lost 3 out of 6 heavy cruisers and 1 of 11 destroyers during the engagement. No BB's were lost and the sole light cruiser survived.  Image this scenario. 400 Wildcat rocket fighters and Avenger Torp bombers based on 18 Bogues in our current game conditions. Thats 18 squads in the air at once, and 12 of the Bogues are off map where you cant even scratch them. How far into a 20 minute match do you think a team of identical makeup to Center Force A lasts? I personally doubt the match last 15 minutes.

 Consider the insane number of planes thrown at the USN during the Okinawa campaign. Just our picket DD's had entire air groups thrown at them singly and how many were actually made combat ineffective let alone sunk? For that matter, how many DD's of all navies combined were sunk by air power? Not many compared to the number of attacks.

Edited by Ares1967
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2 hours ago, Gneisenau013 said:

When an incoming airstrike approaches, are you staying the course or shifting your firepower towards the sky?

Considering our DP guns can shoot at two targets at once, I just kind of adjust my sector and let my AA do its thing. No need to overthink it until the CV is truly committed to attacking you.

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1 hour ago, Ares1967 said:

Incorrect.

The Japanese had air supremacy for a very short short period of time and in reality only had one major success at sea, when they got Prince of Wales and Repulse.

The Brits had air supremacy at sea in the Atlantic and outside of a lucky torp strike on Bismarck and some spotting were ineffective.

In the Med both sides had lots of aircraft and lost lots of tonnage, but the amount of effort to sink each ton was far and away more than what we see in WoWS.

When the US got rolling, yeah the IJN was hosed, but nothing like the out-sized effect of even one well played Midway in the game.

Consider the Battle off Samar. Center Force A dealt with the combined aerial firepower of all three Taffy groups, plus the incredible achievements of Taffy 3's escort. Thats over 400 aircraft. They lost 3 out of 6 heavy cruisers and 1 of 11 destroyers during the engagement. No BB's were lost and the sole light cruiser survived.  Image this scenario. 400 Wildcat rocket fighters and Avenger Torp bombers based on 18 Bogues in our current game conditions. Thats 18 squads in the air at once, and 12 of the Bogues are off map where you cant even scratch them. How far into a 20 minute match do you think a team of identical makeup to Center Force A lasts? I personally doubt the match last 15 minutes.

 Consider the insane number of planes thrown at the USN during the Okinawa campaign. Just our picket DD's had entire air groups thrown at them singly and how many were actually made combat ineffective let alone sunk? For that matter, how many DD's of all navies combined were sunk by air power? Not many compared to the number of attacks.

Operation Pedestal wouldn't agree with you.

In the battle off Samar, most of those aircraft werent loaded for antiship action. They were there to support the land invasion of the Philippines...not go sinking the IJN Navy.

Also, you conveniently forget the day before the battle off Samar? You know, where the Center Force was mauled by enemy carrier aircraft?

WW2 showed the supremacy of aircraft over surface ships. WG is just showing you a brief idea of what WW2 naval combat was like.

Edited by Daniel_Allan_Clark
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1 hour ago, WuYixiang said:

Considering our DP guns can shoot at two targets at once, I just kind of adjust my sector and let my AA do its thing. No need to overthink it until the CV is truly committed to attacking you.

shot-19.04.15_17.34.57-0795.jpg

In this case, the 2 enemy CVs (Kaga and Enterprise) kept chasing after me and dealt almost 1.2 million in potential damage.

Luckily Chung Mu was successful in evading lethal bomb, torpedo and rocket attacks and took down quite a few planes in the process.

"Never fear your enemy but always respect them." - John Basilone, U.S. Marine Corps

#anchorsaweigh

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No thanks, No point in doing that while the enemy can slingshot and avoid your AA until they are right on top of you.  

 

#Fixslingshot

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Just now, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Operation Pedestal wouldn't agree with you.

In the battle off Samar, most of those aircraft werent loaded for antiship action.

Also, you conveniently forget the day before the battle off Samar? You know, where the Center Force was mauled by enemy carrier aircraft?

WW2 showed the supremacy of aircraft over surface ships. WG is just showing you a brief idea of what WW2 naval combat was like.

You just proved my point. Center Firce was mauled by Task Force 38. And you wanna tell the class how many Fleet and Light CVs were in Task Force 38? The numbers you're looking for is 8 of each. Mauled Center group so badly that Samar still occured.

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9 minutes ago, Gneisenau013 said:

shot-19.04.15_17.34.57-0795.jpg

In this case, the 2 enemy CVs (Kaga and Enterprise) kept chasing after me and dealt almost 1.2 million in potential damage.

Luckily Chung Mu was successful in evading lethal bomb, torpedo and rocket attacks and took down quite a few planes in the process.

"Never fear your enemy but always respect them." - John Basilone, U.S. Marine Corps

#anchorsaweigh

shot-19_03.31_21_40.13-0854.thumb.jpg.22d69ec852efc95b4ec58250b72bf74a.jpg

A Langley and Hermes chucked plane after plane at Exeter here, and I spent the better part of the battle evading fire from a Kongou. Ended up sailing between the two CVs and letting my 102mm guns blast away at both ships and planes. Had I been forced to choose between AA and anti-surface targetting, I would not have nearly as many Secondary Battery Hit ribbons (I would 100% have prioritized AA over CV damage).

I will say that I'm glad planes no longer spot torpedoes, or I'd never have gotten the cheeky torpedo kill on Kongou as he rushed back to defend the CVs from my one-man assault. (On the flip side, I do wish catapult planes still spotted torpedoes because that was their main use pre-0.8.0).

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2 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

See WW2.

This was the reality of naval combat when in range of aircraft...in fact, it was worse.

yup

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2 hours ago, Ares1967 said:

Incorrect.

The Japanese had air supremacy for a very short short period of time and in reality only had one major success at sea, when they got Prince of Wales and Repulse.

The Brits had air supremacy at sea in the Atlantic and outside of a lucky torp strike on Bismarck and some spotting were ineffective.

In the Med both sides had lots of aircraft and lost lots of tonnage, but the amount of effort to sink each ton was far and away more than what we see in WoWS.

When the US got rolling, yeah the IJN was hosed, but nothing like the out-sized effect of even one well played Midway in the game.

Consider the Battle off Samar. Center Force A dealt with the combined aerial firepower of all three Taffy groups, plus the incredible achievements of Taffy 3's escort. Thats over 400 aircraft. They lost 3 out of 6 heavy cruisers and 1 of 11 destroyers during the engagement. No BB's were lost and the sole light cruiser survived.  Image this scenario. 400 Wildcat rocket fighters and Avenger Torp bombers based on 18 Bogues in our current game conditions. Thats 18 squads in the air at once, and 12 of the Bogues are off map where you cant even scratch them. How far into a 20 minute match do you think a team of identical makeup to Center Force A lasts? I personally doubt the match last 15 minutes.

 Consider the insane number of planes thrown at the USN during the Okinawa campaign. Just our picket DD's had entire air groups thrown at them singly and how many were actually made combat ineffective let alone sunk? For that matter, how many DD's of all navies combined were sunk by air power? Not many compared to the number of attacks.

Pearl Harbor was not a success in the effect with the loss of USN CV's, but lots of damage to what was there. 

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6 hours ago, Gneisenau013 said:

Image result for anti aircraft navy world war 2

*pictured - USS Savannah (CL-42) providing anti-aircraft cover for Operation Avalanche off the coast of Sicily on September 10, 1943*

Are you re-equipping  your Fleet and re-training your crews to counter incoming airstrikes?

Fleet actions are seeing an increase of aircraft harassing and laying destruction on Allied warships.

While some continue on course with their current crew and load-out, others are re-arming and preparing their crews for the terror from the sky.

When an incoming airstrike approaches, are you staying the course or shifting your firepower towards the sky?

"Flying is hours and hours of boredom sprinkled with a few seconds of sheer terror." - Gregory "Pappy" Boyington, U.S. Marine Corps

#manbattlestationsmonday

#anchorsaweigh

 

You cant shift your firepower to the sky. The AA regime is skill-free, dull, and stupid. You guys have taken the tiny bit of fun out of AA. Thanks.

The constant presence of CVs means you cant play ships with poor AA. Thanks for reducing our range of ship choices.

And then there is the loss of stealth. CVs spawn planes too early. It sucks to be spotted all the time, especially in cruisers. Please consider making CVs wait two mins to launch planes at the beginning of the match.

 

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As long as that "Slingshot Drop" crap is still in game my best defence will me to not play or spend money on this game.  Works great, I never even see a plane come close to me!

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