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Smack_212

Flame away at a casual player

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I loved the game at first, I purchased some premium ships to experience the higher levels since I don't have much free time to grind, and a premium account status for a long duration..( about a year). Suddenly the game became so difficult it was no longer enjoyable... go ahead say I need to "Get GUD" if it makes you feel better, I'm just a casual player that's older and had some evenings to play after the children are in bed.

I thought... well mistakes at higher levels are punished more severely.. ok so I can work on that over time, watch some vids and listen to good players.... the thing is it made no difference. I tested about 20 runs in a training scenario with bots with exactly the same setup on each side minus 1 ship on the red side and I would take myself out of the equation (common denominator). my team got smoked 20 straight times by a factor of 5 ships or more ships or more left on red at victory. How is that possible?

I'm not sure why the game suddenly became so difficult that it's not any fun for a casual player that was historically very competitive with several MMO's. I'm stubborn and I figured it must be me... and I need to adapt my play style ... more strategy less shooter...well I tried and I'm done, This game is no good for a casual player.

The thing is is it started off fun, the first 5 levels were enjoyable... i was wondering if there was a way I could drop premiums status. Ever since I got premium it seems like the game decided that it had my investment in hand and it should change the difficulty level.

Anyhow, I don't have enough free time to invest in a game that is no longer enjoyable, my free time is extremely valuable and this is the first MMO that I've ever grown to hate after initially loving it.

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1 minute ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

Fair winds and following seas Captain.  Thank you for your efforts and all the best in your future endeavors.

The player base has generally been very enjoyable to interact with,

Thank you sir 

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I had the exact same experience you did.  Twice.

Tiers 1-4 you can only fight ships at most 1 tier ahead of you.  So as a Tier 4 you can only fight at worst Tier 5s. When your ship is a Tier 5, you can find yourself in games with Tier 7s.  That threw me at first.

When I got my own Tier 7s and 8s I ran into a second learning curve with Tier 9 and 10 ships.  What tier Premiums did you buy?  It sounds like you may be moving into Tier 5 with the regular ships and maybe got a Tier 8 and your first taste of Tier 9 and 10 life.

Even though I've been able to grind my way to a few Tier 8 and 9 ships, I still struggle with Tier 9 and 10 games.  Tiers 6, 7, and 8 are my sweet spot.

Edited by vorlonagent

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The damage doesn't scale well with armor/HP.  It's been a problem all along and why T10 is so passive.  The game does give you mechanics to work around those issues.  Dispersion is one that we typically rail at when it happens to our shots but it also works in your favor even more since more people are shooting at you than vice versa.  

The skill things are using concealment and angling to mitigate damage.  You can also wiggle a little and use the gas pedal along with it.  That helps.  

But it is tricky and a tough hill to climb given the predators hanging around in the waters.  It's worth it if you're willing to put in the time and deal with WG and PvP communities in general (they are all the same).  It's probably not worth it for many.

Good luck whatever you do.

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Generally speaking this game is too difficult to do well in unless you put a ton of time into it. It's just the way it is. That's not to say you can't have fun as a casual player, but save for a handful of naturally gifted superunis, it is hard to do well.

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Keep at it mate.

I am pretty much in the same boat....kids, mortgage...."she who must be obeyed", and all that....and have limited time to play.

For me, it changed from needing to get "to the top" as it were, to just having fun, regardless of tier. Am finding anything above T7 is a bit of a cluster#@$* atm, so am limiting myself to the low/mid tiers, and have actually sold my Mino, and 3 t9's. Kepts some 8's, but even they don't see a lot of action these days.

Find your "happy place" is my advise, and don't focus so much on the "end game"........worked for me.

 

Cheers

Kiwi

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If you intend to leave and follow through, so be it. But here is another perspective, and one you might want to pay heed to, brother. Despite what I am sure will be a strong temptation to write off my comments below as meaning 
"git gud," that is not my intention at all.

You have one T6 ship from the regular tech tree. Everything else you have at T6 or higher is a premium ship. And in those tiers, the power levels across a three tier spread are much more significant. Add to that your relative inexperience with ships at higher than T5 and you have a recipe for a consistently frustrating experience. I have said many times that is is very important to work through tiers gradually, and to avoid playing ships at tiers you are not familiar with until you have a firm grasp on the lessons to be learned at the previous tier. This is not condescension. It is my opinion of what I have observed personally, in my own case and with many others, including a great many in my clan.

If you want to feel more in control, drop back down to tiers 4 and 5. Play those ships until you feel comfortable with them and the tools they bring to battle. Then work your way up through the regular tech tree lines you are interested in, without feeling the need to race through the tiers. The tiers are not merely a representation of ship capability. The tiers also represent subtle changes to the way the game must be played in order to be successful. For some, this will come quickly. For me, and if your comments are any indication, for you, it takes time.

Your comment about premium time leading to some behind-the-scenes increase in difficulty is, in a word, wrong. And if you had any idea how many people have come to the forums for the first time to make an angry post claiming exactly the opposite you would likely find yourself laughing.

If you like the game at lower tiers, play those. There are no fan clubs for those playing at higher tiers. And far too many (in my opinion) players race up the tiers thinking that T10 is where "the real game" happens. Those players generally fail, and fail, and fail until they leave the game.

The game is not cheating you because you have premium time. You have simply been playing out of your depth. It happens to many, if not most, who play this game. Including me. It was only after I took my own advice, went back to low tiers, and worked my way up in exactly the way I have described that I began to experience the game differently. Not because the game had changed. But because I had learned more about the game.

This game is a complex game covered in a veneer of arcade game simplicity. Recognizing that, and acting accordingly, will return a lot of joy to the game and allow you to progress comfortably into higher tiers when you can see yourself that you are ready.

So, take my advice. Or leave and move on. But I wanted you to know that there are many that have experienced exactly what you are now feeling and that some of us have managed to get past it and continue to enjoy the game.

Respects,

Am

Edited by Amracil
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You very recently went from playing low and mid-tier ships to playing high tier ships. There's a learning curve at the higher tiers, and many more factors to consider while playing. You can either put in the work taking your lumps and learning the hard way, or save your high tiers for co-op and stick to lower tier ships for randoms. Or you can leave, if that's really what you want to do. World of Warships is a very frustrating game, but it's also a game that provides a great deal of satisfaction when you make a good play and secure a win. You have to take the good with the bad, in that regard.

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Yeah pretty much everything Amracil said.  Your stats across the board are actually pretty good for you experience and tier.  Except for the premiums...

Having fun playing is just that.  Having a good time at IV?  Play that, getting to (or buying) tier V is not necessarily going to make for a funER time.  I had a solid year of tier IV sailing around like a potato (and my stats reflect it) but I was having fun just playing the game.  I'd go more in depth but I'm not witty enough to plagiarize the dude above lol.

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1 hour ago, Smack_212 said:

I loved the game at first, I purchased some premium ships to experience the higher levels since I don't have much free time to grind, and a premium account status for a long duration..( about a year). Suddenly the game became so difficult it was no longer enjoyable... go ahead say I need to "Get GUD" if it makes you feel better, I'm just a casual player that's older and had some evenings to play after the children are in bed.

I thought... well mistakes at higher levels are punished more severely.. ok so I can work on that over time, watch some vids and listen to good players.... the thing is it made no difference. I tested about 20 runs in a training scenario with bots with exactly the same setup on each side minus 1 ship on the red side and I would take myself out of the equation (common denominator). my team got smoked 20 straight times by a factor of 5 ships or more ships or more left on red at victory. How is that possible?

I'm not sure why the game suddenly became so difficult that it's not any fun for a casual player that was historically very competitive with several MMO's. I'm stubborn and I figured it must be me... and I need to adapt my play style ... more strategy less shooter...well I tried and I'm done, This game is no good for a casual player.

The thing is is it started off fun, the first 5 levels were enjoyable... i was wondering if there was a way I could drop premiums status. Ever since I got premium it seems like the game decided that it had my investment in hand and it should change the difficulty level.

Anyhow, I don't have enough free time to invest in a game that is no longer enjoyable, my free time is extremely valuable and this is the first MMO that I've ever grown to hate after initially loving it.

I suggest you watch ichase’s videos, theyre very good for teaching the basics. If you jump frim tier 5 to tier 10 you deserve the shock. Many players have ground their way up and seeing someone sailing along at full speed in a straight line is just a dev strike waiting to happen.

also ship captains are crucial, if you are in a tier 10 match with a 6 point captain you are at a disadvantage, everyone else has 19pt captains at that tier.

while learning the game does take time, after enough games played the lack of new maps and simplicity of winning strategies makes the game seem boring. What i find most frustrating, besides passive play, is watching beginner mistakes en masse in top tier matches (ie lemming trains, ignoring dds, bbs hiding behind islands not firing, etc...).

good luck to you if you stay, if you don’t i’m sure you’ll find something else to do with your time.

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No need to flame. Some people are just not meant to play some games.... 

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For those of you that have replied... Thank you, that is what makes multiplayer games interesting and worth playing.

I will scale back my play to levels that I'm successful at and lear before on to higher levels. I've never experienced a game as difficult. 

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@Smack_212 I don't know you or what game element gives you the most fun, but before you pack it please consider.

There is no shame in less-than-stellar stats if you are having fun, and that's why we're all here. I'm a casual player myself and really don't need to publicly flaunt a massive e-peen.

It's great to rank out every season, belong to an uber clan, and have a 55% WR. It's also OK not to.

There are ways to avoid the things that detract from fun. Hate radar? Play mid-tiers. Hate CV's? Play PvE. Hate DD torps? Play cruisers.

The mid tiers are fun, at least for me. With >6500 games and 7 Tier 10's, I prefer to run CA/CL dakkabotes and shoot the crap out of stuff. Maybe you like BB hide and snipe or DD bushwacking, it doesn't matter. All that matters is having fun.

For me, running a Helena or Fiji around shredding things is a bloody riot.  No premium required, no stress, no arcane high-tier mechanics.

tl;dr...play YOUR way. Nothing else matters.

 

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20 minutes ago, Smack_212 said:

For those of you that have replied... Thank you, that is what makes multiplayer games interesting and worth playing.

I will scale back my play to levels that I'm successful at and lear before on to higher levels. I've never experienced a game as difficult. 

I dabbled in T10 for like 2 games after getting Zao i think.  Spent the next couple of years at T6 in the glorious Cleveland.  That time changed everything.

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37 minutes ago, Smack_212 said:

For those of you that have replied... Thank you, that is what makes multiplayer games interesting and worth playing.

I will scale back my play to levels that I'm successful at and lear before on to higher levels. I've never experienced a game as difficult. 

The introduction of Operations was a major reason for a drastic improvement in my play. IMO Operations has several huge advantages over co-op and randoms and I highly recommend it for newer players, especially if you join one of the discord groups who do them regularly.

 Operations pays out xp and credits similar to randoms in wins and even loses can result in better payouts than co-op wins if you do well. This speeds up leveling your capts. 

 Operations presents you with a large number of potential targets doing things that Co-op bots dont do. This gives time and opportunity to practice. At the same time you're not getting slammed by being bottom teir match after match. You get time to let the game slow down.

 

 

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For a very, very long time I couldn't perform at T8+ and wasn't great at T5+. I played T3, 5, 6 and 7 frequently, and raced to NC, but no matter what, T8+ just didn't work for me. However, the surprising thing is, I played co-op in Mo for about 200 games straight(ish) recently(also ish) and that really helped. Like, really helped. Looking at your ships, I'd say a good way for you to improve would be to play Dunkerq (and maybe Scharnhorst) in co-op and operations. Yes, those ships specifically. As for why, the answer is simple: speed. They both will teach you how to be a high tier BB from outside of those tiers.

Of your DDs, I'd call Okhotnik a great one to learn in. Why? Short range torps force you to think strategically, and her guns can cit the crap out of an Omaha up close. T5 DDs also don't see T8s, so radar is rare and DDs won't have super good detection.

As for CLs, I'd normally recommend Omaha, but Friant can do the job at an easier tier. Friant is where I learned a lot of lessons, honestly, and remains one of my favorite cruisers.

CAs, Furutaka. She is squishy, but she can really do the job, and the buffs to her accuracy are terrifying if used well.

For BBs outside of the two mentioned, going for Kongou is a great place to learn. She is horribly difficult, but there are few ships I'd call better for learning armor angling in, as she's hard to brawl in. She plays a lot like a high tier BB, honestly.

For CVs, honestly, Langley. She's the safest of the lot, and was where I learned to use the reworked CVs. Just, uhh... don't count on her torps. Ohh, and do not play co-op in her. It's horrible to be a CV in co-op. Like... good lord is it bad. I'd sooner want a newbie CV on my team in Random than have a CV on my team in co-op or operations at all. The AI just doesn't react well to their tender mercies.

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4 hours ago, Smack_212 said:

<OP>

There is nothing wrong with staying at tiers 4 or 5. There are some good boats there: Orion, Kongo, and if you get the hang of them: Omaha, Emile Bertin, and Konigsburg. There are also good DDs, I just don't play them enough to recommend any.

There are also good premiums like Texas, Oktober Revolution, and the Omaha clones.

Have you tried Coop? Its a good stress free game mode.

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Sorry to hear of your issues @Smack_212, in a similar vein I have kids and enjoy the game. It did a few thousand battles sometimes to understand mechanics and id vouch not jumping to higher tiers until you have experience in cruisers, DDs and BBs up to and including T6.

That said its not for everyone to grind, if you do want some helpful advice, you can send your replays to @Lord_Zath who upon request will review replay files and offer advice on game play and decision making. This may assist you for that information that you seek and if not, then regardless good luck in whatever game you play henceforth. 

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5 hours ago, Smack_212 said:

I loved the game at first, I purchased some premium ships to experience the higher levels since I don't have much free time to grind, and a premium account status for a long duration..( about a year). Suddenly the game became so difficult it was no longer enjoyable... go ahead say I need to "Get GUD" if it makes you feel better, I'm just a casual player that's older and had some evenings to play after the children are in bed.

I thought... well mistakes at higher levels are punished more severely.. ok so I can work on that over time, watch some vids and listen to good players.... the thing is it made no difference. I tested about 20 runs in a training scenario with bots with exactly the same setup on each side minus 1 ship on the red side and I would take myself out of the equation (common denominator). my team got smoked 20 straight times by a factor of 5 ships or more ships or more left on red at victory. How is that possible?

I'm not sure why the game suddenly became so difficult that it's not any fun for a casual player that was historically very competitive with several MMO's. I'm stubborn and I figured it must be me... and I need to adapt my play style ... more strategy less shooter...well I tried and I'm done, This game is no good for a casual player.

The thing is is it started off fun, the first 5 levels were enjoyable... i was wondering if there was a way I could drop premiums status. Ever since I got premium it seems like the game decided that it had my investment in hand and it should change the difficulty level.

Anyhow, I don't have enough free time to invest in a game that is no longer enjoyable, my free time is extremely valuable and this is the first MMO that I've ever grown to hate after initially loving it.

Hi.  If you have decided to pull the plug, sorry to see you go. 

If you want to give it another crack, then feel free to add me in-game.  If I'm online at the same time as you (around this time most nights), then I'd be happy to run battles with you and share the things that took me ages to learn for myself.  

Having said that, a couple corrections to your original post: premium time doesnt make the game harder, and losing streaks are a thing in this game.  RNG means that you can quite easily have a 55% win rate and still lose 10 battles in a row one night.  People feel losses harder than wins; it is the nature of human psychology.  

Still, there is a major step-change in difficulty between Tiers 1-4 and 5-7, and another change in meta in Tiers 8-10.  At low tiers, running around having mindless fun is 100% awesome and exciting.  In mid-tiers, however, you can run into very experienced players and captain skills become materially useful (eg, concealment expert on a destroyer is essentially mandatory at mid-tier, and this requires 10 captain skill points).  At high tier, the meta is different again - the ships have become extremely accurate, powerful, and there are plenty of experienced players with high-end equipment with most captains having 16+ skill points, making them truly dangerous.  At tier 10,  if you briefly show broadside once you immediately die - whereas, at tiers 1-4 this is very rarely punished.  

But, I encourage you to not lose hope.  It is good that you are reading and watching materials to help you get better.  A shameless plug: I wrote a quick reference guide to help players understand their ship's role, and how to counter those same ships.  There are other great guides, like LittleWhiteMouse's guide on how to control your winrate: it is essentially discipline, awareness and playing for a team win.  But they key to improvement is a growth mentality - having a desire to improve, even if getting there takes some time.  I think you have that positive mindset, given you've tried looking for guides already.  But ultimately only you can decide if this game is not for you. 

Regardless, I wish you all the best.

 

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5 hours ago, Amracil said:

If you intend to leave and follow through, so be it. But here is another perspective, and one you might want to pay heed to, brother. Despite what I am sure will be a strong temptation to write off my comments below as meaning 
"git gud," that is not my intention at all.

You have one T6 ship from the regular tech tree. Everything else you have at T6 or higher is a premium ship. And in those tiers, the power levels across a three tier spread are much more significant. Add to that your relative inexperience with ships at higher than T5 and you have a recipe for a consistently frustrating experience. I have said many times that is is very important to work through tiers gradually, and to avoid playing ships at tiers you are not familiar with until you have a firm grasp on the lessons to be learned at the previous tier. This is not condescension. It is my opinion of what I have observed personally, in my own case and with many others, including a great many in my clan.

If you want to feel more in control, drop back down to tiers 4 and 5. Play those ships until you feel comfortable with them and the tools they bring to battle. Then work your way up through the regular tech tree lines you are interested in, without feeling the need to race through the tiers. The tiers are not merely a representation of ship capability. The tiers also represent subtle changes to the way the game must be played in order to be successful. For some, this will come quickly. For me, and if your comments are any indication, for you, it takes time.

Your comment about premium time leading to some behind-the-scenes increase in difficulty is, in a word, wrong. And if you had any idea how many people have come to the forums for the first time to make an angry post claiming exactly the opposite you would likely find yourself laughing.

If you like the game at lower tiers, play those. There are no fan clubs for those playing at higher tiers. And far too many (in my opinion) players race up the tiers thinking that T10 is where "the real game" happens. Those players generally fail, and fail, and fail until they leave the game.

The game is not cheating you because you have premium time. You have simply been playing out of your depth. It happens to many, if not most, who play this game. Including me. It was only after I took my own advice, went back to low tiers, and worked my way up in exactly the way I have described that I began to experience the game differently. Not because the game had changed. But because I had learned more about the game.

This game is a complex game covered in a veneer of arcade game simplicity. Recognizing that, and acting accordingly, will return a lot of joy to the game and allow you to progress comfortably into higher tiers when you can see yourself that you are ready.

So, take my advice. Or leave and move on. But I wanted you to know that there are many that have experienced exactly what you are now feeling and that some of us have managed to get past it and continue to enjoy the game.

Respects,

Am

@Smack_212 this is what you need to consider before pulling the plug. Even after almost 14,000 battles I still haven't grasped the intricacies of the game and that is on me. I play for fun and am not a "student of the game". I've bought and sold 4 T10 ships and truly enjoy my T5-T7 ships and battles. I play my best/most fun ships in Randoms. High tier I play in Co-op (T9 - T10) by choice. It is still all about having fun.

Good luck with your decision but I believe if you follow Amracil's advice - which I completely endorse (for what it is worth) and focus on fun over moving up the tiers. 

Edit: @UltimateNewbie advice is very much spot on as well.

 

Edited by Khafni
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5 hours ago, KiwiColdbeer said:

."she who must be obeyed"

 Lol .  I have been calling friends wives that for about 30 years ( one friend shortened it to SWMBO ) which is when I reread that old novel . It is kind of funny to see someone else use it ,

:Smile_honoring:

 

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6 hours ago, Smack_212 said:

I loved the game at first, I purchased some premium ships to experience the higher levels since I don't have much free time to grind, and a premium account status for a long duration..( about a year). Suddenly the game became so difficult it was no longer enjoyable... go ahead say I need to "Get GUD" if it makes you feel better, I'm just a casual player that's older and had some evenings to play after the children are in bed.

I thought... well mistakes at higher levels are punished more severely.. ok so I can work on that over time, watch some vids and listen to good players.... the thing is it made no difference. I tested about 20 runs in a training scenario with bots with exactly the same setup on each side minus 1 ship on the red side and I would take myself out of the equation (common denominator). my team got smoked 20 straight times by a factor of 5 ships or more ships or more left on red at victory. How is that possible?

I'm not sure why the game suddenly became so difficult that it's not any fun for a casual player that was historically very competitive with several MMO's. I'm stubborn and I figured it must be me... and I need to adapt my play style ... more strategy less shooter...well I tried and I'm done, This game is no good for a casual player.

The thing is is it started off fun, the first 5 levels were enjoyable... i was wondering if there was a way I could drop premiums status. Ever since I got premium it seems like the game decided that it had my investment in hand and it should change the difficulty level.

Anyhow, I don't have enough free time to invest in a game that is no longer enjoyable, my free time is extremely valuable and this is the first MMO that I've ever grown to hate after initially loving it.

Your issue, in your own words, is that you have to "get gud".  Now, part of the problem is that you skipped tiers by purchasing ships.  You get better at this game by playing at lower tiers, learning what does work, and figuring out what doesn't.  I always recommend the same thing every time to people in your shoes; go back to playing low tiers.  You found enjoyment playing low tiers, so go back to playing them.  There's nothing stopping you from going back.  

As a second recommendation, it seems like you can't stay in one clan.  I would try to find a clan that teaches gameplay through divisions.  You will learn the game much, much faster that way.  Positioning is more important than just about anything in this game; if you can learn that, you can basically do anything.  

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You got some great advice from some really good players, OP.  I do hope you continue to play the game with us.

After taking an extended break from the game, I came back and have been playing a lot of co-op and ops.  When I do play randoms, I stick to ships that I can play well, almost always at lower tiers.   My stats are improving, and I'm having a ton of fun playing the game now.  Being retired I have a lot of time to play, but I'm determined not to move into tiers where I get stomped by better players on a regular basis.  High tier co-op can be a lot of fun and you are able to get some skill points into your captains while playing.

Good luck to you, and I hope to see you in battle soon.  (Hopefully on the green team of course.)

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