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Legio_X_

I cannot make the Hipper work.

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This ship just hates me. 

Concealment is not that great and for some reason, no matter how much i angle I get citadels from plunging fire. Take it to account you have no heal at T8. One good BB salvo will ruin your day. How in the hell do you people make this thing work?

 

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Your numbers on it dont look bad, other than your WR.

Maybe you are running into heavy T10 matches or just unfavorable teams. 

The TX MM makes it more difficult. Just stay at range, kite, spam HE at BBs. Cruisers if nothing else is threatening you can close on and use AP, (even broadside BBs). Dont attempt to dive in with the torps. 

Based off just your #s. Play it like you were playing the yorck but maybe even safer cause of the T10s. 

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Without seeing a replay, it's difficult to offer specific advice on what you may need to change.

The Hipper, like the Roon and the Hindenburg, are quite prone to plunging fire at long-ranges (12+km).  If you're getting badly penned even at strong angles, it's likely coming from battleships with 400+mm caliber guns.  As with any cruiser play, situational awareness to monitor and dodge incoming fire is critical, as is positioning relative to terrain to manage the number and type of opponents that can fire on you.  The KM upper-tier cruisers are among the worst-concealed in the game, but their good range and flat ballistics allow them to hit targets reliably at 14+km.  This way, they can stay at range, and if they get into trouble, they can silence their guns, go into concealment, then reposition and re-engage on terms better for them.

The Hipper and her bigger sisters are played as long-range, flanking artillery for much of a battle.  They can then close in late-game to engage opponents one-on-one.  In very close quarters, the Hipper and her bigger sisters are among the tankiest cruisers in the game.  They can bow-tank sub-400mm AP shells (with good angling), and their turtleback armor scheme can mitigate citadel hits from salvos within 6km.

Cruisers are often your primary "food" since the KM 203mm AP shells have the highest alpha at that caliber in the game, and it can punish broadside cruisers with impunity.

Here's a replay of me in the Prinz Eugen in a tier-X match.  This was played before the Eugen received the Repair Party consumable.  The Eugen is nearly identical to the Hipper (slightly more HP, slightly less concealed, stronger turtleback).

I hope this helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw_L9M1Vp08

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At the beginning of the match, when the battleships are all looking in your direction and watching for cruisers to delete, I play mine at long range, taking advantage of the good shell ballistics, and use mostly HE. The 1/4 pen 203mm HE will rack up good damage on even angled battleships despite the comparatively low alpha due to high ratio of penetrations alone. The turtleback armor scheme, like that of Yorck, is highly vulnerable to plunging fire, so you have to depend on WASD - don't show broadside and don't be afraid to kite away if needed. I approach at an angle so I can quickly turn away to protect my side when I'm spotted. Often I won't open fire (and reveal myself) until I'm already 3/4 of the way through my turn away, minimizing my target profile and ensuring I don't get caught in the turn, especially since the turtleback will often result in pens instead of overpens compared to other cruisers. I run mine with the concealment module, but I know others swear by the double rudder setup. If you are having issues making the poor concealment work, you might want to consider trying that setup and see if it works better for you.

Once the battle lines have been broken up a bit and the reds are distracted, I can be more aggressive and close the distance to utilize the brutal AP. I find the AP is not very effective at long range (12+ km) unless you have almost perfect broadsides, which is common for German ships. When angled the armor is very tanky and the 27mm bow resists overmatch from 380mm guns, so you can use that to your advantage vs. same tier or lower BBs when you don't have to worry about a crossfire.

As a previous poster suggested, I started out playing mine similar to Yorck and adjusted my playstyle once I became comfortable with the ship and figured out what I could get away with.

I'm grinding the Roon, and Hipper is my favorite cruiser I've played so far. But, I don't have Hindenburg yet, so maybe that will change. :Smile_teethhappy:

 

 

Edited by Nevermore135
typos and grammar

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44 minutes ago, Octavian_of_Roma said:

Your numbers on it dont look bad, other than your WR.

 Maybe you are running into heavy T10 matches or just unfavorable teams. 

The TX MM makes it more difficult. Just stay at range, kite, spam HE at BBs. Cruisers if nothing else is threatening you can close on and use AP, (even broadside BBs). Dont attempt to dive in with the torps. 

Based off just your #s. Play it like you were playing the yorck but maybe even safer cause of the T10s. 

I'm trying to play it just like the Yorck..lol I have been on some crazy bad teams lately. RNG just has not blessed me much last 48hrs with good players on team. 

And I'm getting overpens like crazy using AP on broadside cruisers. I have to literally aim below the waterline to get good pens. If not my rounds just fly through the ship. 

Also last game i played i overpened a broadside Roma. How?...lol

Edited by Legio_X_
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You know, I think I felt very similarly to you. The Hipper makes a lot of sacrifices in exchange for good armour. It lacks concealment, has mediocre (if not terrible) maneuverability/speed, meh AP penetration, lacks a heal and most importantly of all: lacks DPM. The issue is that her good armour is almost entirely irrelevant by virtue of being at tier 8. Higher tier BBs will punch through you like they would any other cruiser, either by overmatching your bow at close range or plunging through your deck at longer ranges. At the same time, the poor DPM means that even same-tier cruisers are capable of out-attritioning you with HE spam, and the poor concealment means that DDs also don't have much to fear from you. Consequently, unlike other bottom-tier cruisers, you can't even compensate for your fagility by controlling the engagements, or by punishing the enemy with high DPM when they ignore you and let you get into that perfect position.

I'm not even particularly impressed by the Hipper's AP shells. Yes they have good alpha, which is occasionally useful against broadsiding BBs and CAs. But she only has 8 shells per volley, with pretty mediocre dispersion, meh penetration and poor reload. There are several same-tier cruisers like the Baltimore, Chappy, and CM, who I think are better AP fighters (I haven't actually run the math on this. I'm just working off gut feeling). So while the AP might be Hipper's best feature, it still isn't a very special feature for tier 8 CAs.

 

This leaves two options for how to grind through the hipper.

You could wait for a special event like ranked or arms race to take place at tier 8, in order to play her in an MM that is restricted to tier 8. It is amazing how different the hipper feels in such gamemodes. Suddenly, you're a tanking beast capable of straight up open-water brawling enemy BBs. And with all the hp you save from not being AP overmatched all the time, you can even afford to get into the occasional DPM battle.

Alternatively, you can play by the standard 'cruiser out of his league' handbook. Basically, you stay at range and go round the flanks. You never engage alone, and you are never the closest visible ship to the enemy. You make sure enemy BBs have to rotate their turrets to shoot at you, and that you are never the least angled ship they can fire at. The principle here is that ships in WoWs can only ever engage one target at a time, so you make sure that from the perspective of enemy BBs you are never either the most lucrative target they can shoot at, nor the most dangerous that they want to remove quickly. You HE spam, take advantage of the occasional broadside shown to you, and once all the enemy BBs have been removed you can try pushing in to brawl cruisers if you feel you have the health for it. Overall, I consider this probably the most boring way to play this game. But it does net high average damage and XP, plus usually a consistent if not spectacular winrate.

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9 hours ago, Legio_X_ said:

I'm trying to play it just like the Yorck..lol I have been on some crazy bad teams lately. RNG just has not blessed me much last 48hrs with good players on team. 

And I'm getting overpens like crazy using AP on broadside cruisers. I have to literally aim below the waterline to get good pens. If not my rounds just fly through the ship. 

Also last game i played i overpened a broadside Roma. How?...lol

Well, if you're playing her like the Yorck, and you played the Yorck as long-range artillery with a lot of kiting, etc., then you're probably doing it right and just have had some bad luck.  I felt similarly when I got to the Benson.  My USN destroyer stats including WR up through the Mahan were decent if not very good, but then something happened when I got to the Benson.  My individual performance was good, but my WR was terrible, and I felt I just couldn't have impact on games.

As Octavian_of_Roma pointed out, your individual stats in the Hipper are pretty solid, so you must be doing something right.

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I'm in the same boat as you are with the Hipper. I cant find the best middle ground for me to play in. I can't get close enough to use torpedos, but If I stay too far out, I will get nailed and lose 12-19k in hit points from a bb. I am careful not to broadside myself, but the hipper seems to not treat me as nicely as the Yorck. 

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On 5/10/2019 at 5:17 PM, Rgtx1121 said:

I'm in the same boat as you are with the Hipper. I cant find the best middle ground for me to play in. I can't get close enough to use torpedos, but If I stay too far out, I will get nailed and lose 12-19k in hit points from a bb. I am careful not to broadside myself, but the hipper seems to not treat me as nicely as the Yorck. 

Torpedoes are for opportunistic situations only.  If you set your mind on using torpedoes at the onset of a match, you will likely suicide.  Stay at range for most of the battle.  I'll use torpedoes most often in late game when my flank has the advantage, we are pushing, and I can take down isolated or distracted opponents.  If you want the experience of being able to stealth-torpedo, I suggest you play upper-tier IJN or RN cruisers (which have their own trade-offs, too).

As for comparing with the Yorck, the Hipper and her bigger sisters are much longer, making them easier to hit.  The Yorck also sees far fewer battleships with 400+mm guns than the Hipper et al. go up against.

If you feel like you're being punished routinely, it may be because you are allowing too many opponents to target you.  Moreover, you may not be keeping track of who is targeting you and when they fire on you so that you can dodge to avoid fire.  My general rule of thumb when playing any cruiser (not just the Hipper) is that I shouldn't have more than one or two that can engage me at any particular time (use terrain and distraction to control this).  Should I be targeted by more than one or two, especially if at least one is a battleship, it's usually time to silence my guns, go into concealment, re-position, and re-engage on terms better for me.  Good luck!

Edited by AnIolairGhorm
Correction to redundancy in first sentence
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As crazy as it may sound in using hit and run, then hide if needed tactics in Hipper. I have also taken to targeting DDs of all things with Hipper’s HE since it hits hard and is amazingly accurate if you have the Aiming mod mounted. Other thing that really helps is having C hull for the ship for added AA and HP.

Torpedoes I often am getting to use if some enemy ships attempted to ambush me, I took cover behind an island, and then they get the bright idea to come around the island at less than 6km range to attack me and plow right into my Torps. German Torps While short ranged tend to be very stealthy and hit really hard.

Also despite CVs being present often enough, I still am taking hydro since it has been great at torpedo detection and finding enemy ships in smoke or on other side of islands. C Hull AA and your cat fighter can take out a lot of the planes. And despite still learning the ship myself, I have been fairing very well now after some practice, reading some guides, and watching some YouTube vids. Some of the tactics are almost like WOT tactics where you move up, Duck behind solid cover, peek around corner fire off some shots then duck behind cover again as enemy shells plaster your rock or fly by. And if no real enemy threat then move up until you get close enough to do some damage again.

Or you can vary your speed and do some long range firing to set some fires and then go dark again. With the accuracy and range of the guns plus 11km detection range you do have some solace to play with as far as the firing off some shots and going dark again tactics.

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I actually prefered the Hipper/Eugen as a mid-range dueler, but if you can make that range work, my god it does good things. You arent exactly the fastest thing out there, mind you ( Because Mogami and Charles Martel are a thing, being just as manueverable ( Chapayev doesnt count, because its a light cruiser )), but you can certainly dictate the range on most BBs with low shell velocity, at a range of around 12 to 15 km ( don't test your luck against the German, French, or Russian BBs though, they will smack you to kingdom come at those ranges, should they get a good shot off , with their extremely high shell velocities). You also have a pretty decent turret traverse, excellent shell velocity, and brutal AP that can easily punch through most upper belt armor at decent ranges. Point is, be an oversized Tashkent.

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