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general_D_H_Chun

Quick Rundown on the Premium Carriers

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This is a repeat of an already existing message, please go see LWM's post on the new CVs first for someone who isn't a big dumb American's take

 

So I had the privilege of playing all four Premium CVs on my friend, @______AESTHETIC_BREADBOX's account. Big thankk, Twonky

The rundown is this.

Kaga and Saipan, by word of the mighty Canadian Weeb Queen herself, @LittleWhiteMouse are two CVs that struggle. They vomit planes into the ocean faster than I vomited on the stateroom floor after attempting to dine out on the Norwegian Dawn in the midst of a storm

Don't ask for details. I was five at the time pls no bully

Kaga's DBs and Rockets really suck. Her "bread" is the torpedoes, but they're average in terms of both damage and range. But they're kinda fast, I guess. It's just they die so fast. And her planes do die stupid fast in t10 AA They're beyond awful. And Saipan's just a quarter of a Midway.

Why would you bring a quarter of a Midway to a fight? To warrant a quarter of the DD complaints.

The two premium CVs you really want, that don't get utterly shafted, are Enterprise and Graf Zeppelin. Lemme explain, if Mouse hasn't already iterated it well enough (and she has)

Each CV in the game has a different "rearm" timer, the amount of time to regain a single plane. Kaga's "rearm" is average, and Saipan's is horrendous for her tier. Neither takes to losing all their planes very well.

Now, let's look at what I consider the "average" player's best pick, the Grey Ghost, Enterprise.

Her rearm is really good, fighter radius is amazing, torps, albeit slow, have a comfortable arm time and alpha, and the rockets and DBs are both capable of screwing over ships, like aerial ordinance rightfully should. (Given you know how to aim)

Her "weakness" is slow speed, so skilled players can still get a kick out of taking a Femennenly-like position right next to A and spamming planes. And the planes rearm really fast, again.

GZ was the only CV I'd play during the initial first days of hotfix hell, after getting blasted out of the air in Kaga. Her thing is speed. She's got, if my numbers are correct, the fastest TBs in the game, and the fastest DBs. You can minimize exposure to AA in this ship, unlike her contemporaries. Getting used to some parts of her may take time, though. Also, her reserves are actually really good. So she's faster than Saipan, doesn't lack HP in a meaningful way, but her hangar's also bigger. Go figure.

 

TO SUM IT UP IF YOU HATE READING WHAT I WRITE:

Kaga and Saipan 

-bad plane survivability

-poor rearm time

-meh speed (compared to GZ)

GZ and Enterprise

-well-rounded strike potential

-good hangar sizes

-one gets speed, one gets forgiving plane rearm, both are things that you want in a CV, and both are things Saipan and Kaga simply fall short in

-if you can only pick one CV, make it Enterprise or GZ

 

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This about lines up with my own experience, but given the price, I'd say Saipan might be the best to grab if you're dead set on a T8 Prem CV.

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All 4 premiums are reasonably close, in potential, but my personal ranking of premium CVs, (for experienced CV players), 

  1. Saipan (you can't go wrong with a mini-Midway, and a combination fo the highest alpha dmg of t8, highest flood/fire chance of t8, highest hp of squadrons of t8) This is by far the best trainer for t10 captains, and to learn how to manage the dynamics of higher tier CV gameplay. It has the same planes as Midway at tier10.
  2. Enterprise (good alpha/dot, agile planes, plentiful reserves)
  3. Kaga (ok alpha, mediocre dot, very plentiful reserves, very new player friendly, ok IJN trainer)
  4. Graf Zeppelin (worst alpha, worst fire/flood chance, poor reserves, poor squadron hp, terrible hull concealment- the only thing it has going for it, = squadron speed)

Any other ranking would be irresponsible and dishonest.:Smile_glasses:

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been driving CV's a lot since 0.8.0, and currently, my opinion of them are in no order

Kaga, mass of planes and deep reserves, but bad regen. Has the Utility of HE divve bombers, which is unique for an IJN CV.

Saipan, individually very good planes, with terrible reserves and regen so you have to treat your planes like they are made of glass. Has No secondary guns, which when it comes to CV on CV violence might be a detriment. Uptiers as well as you can be careful with the glass flights of airplanes.

Enterprise, Very nice aircraft regen, good enough reserves, torp bombers are passable, rocket planes are good enough, saddled with AP dive bombers with limited utility. AP bombs can produce good damage against the right targets, but if you don't have those targets, or RNGesus doesn't like you, that's a big part of your airwing to have useless. Uptiers ok, at least as far as CV's go.

Graf Zeppelin, Excellent torpedo bombers (if you like hurling across the map at up to 260 knots) with very weak torpedoes. Rocket planes are a mixed bag, good individual rockets, not enough of them, slow and fragile fighters. Dive Bombers are an oddity and AP, they can be very accurate, but they don't survive well, they also can hit 260 knots. Reserves and regen are passable. Is the only CV that seeks to get into secondary brawls with other CV's, or anything else that you can engage while taking a minimum amount of return fire.

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graf zeppelin is the perfect middle group of the prem cvs.

no super resevre,no bad rockets,no super HE bombers.

just speed and the wind blowing in your face.

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1 hour ago, general_D_H_Chun said:

Why would you bring a quarter of a Midway to a fight? To warrant a quarter of the DD complaints.

Not only that, her AA is garbage.

Baltimore hull or Cleveland hull, who gives a flying flip; Saipan is basically a C-hull Independence (old,) which means NO 127mm guns, thus NO long Range AA, and so NO long range AA puffs.

Basically just wimpy medium range puffs and chip damage.

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2 hours ago, general_D_H_Chun said:

This is a repeat of an already existing message, please go see LWM's post on the new CVs first for someone who isn't a big dumb American's take

 

So I had the privilege of playing all four Premium CVs on my friend, @______AESTHETIC_BREADBOX's account. Big thankk, Twonky

The rundown is this.

Kaga and Saipan, by word of the mighty Canadian Weeb Queen herself, @LittleWhiteMouse are two CVs that struggle. They vomit planes into the ocean faster than I vomited on the stateroom floor after attempting to dine out on the Norwegian Dawn in the midst of a storm

Don't ask for details. I was five at the time pls no bully

Kaga's DBs and Rockets really suck. Her "bread" is the torpedoes, but they're average in terms of both damage and range. But they're kinda fast, I guess. It's just they die so fast. And her planes do die stupid fast in t10 AA They're beyond awful. And Saipan's just a quarter of a Midway.

Why would you bring a quarter of a Midway to a fight? To warrant a quarter of the DD complaints.

The two premium CVs you really want, that don't get utterly shafted, are Enterprise and Graf Zeppelin. Lemme explain, if Mouse hasn't already iterated it well enough (and she has)

Each CV in the game has a different "rearm" timer, the amount of time to regain a single plane. Kaga's "rearm" is average, and Saipan's is horrendous for her tier. Neither takes to losing all their planes very well.

Now, let's look at what I consider the "average" player's best pick, the Grey Ghost, Enterprise.

Her rearm is really good, fighter radius is amazing, torps, albeit slow, have a comfortable arm time and alpha, and the rockets and DBs are both capable of screwing over ships, like aerial ordinance rightfully should. (Given you know how to aim)

Her "weakness" is slow speed, so skilled players can still get a kick out of taking a Femennenly-like position right next to A and spamming planes. And the planes rearm really fast, again.

GZ was the only CV I'd play during the initial first days of hotfix hell, after getting blasted out of the air in Kaga. Her thing is speed. She's got, if my numbers are correct, the fastest TBs in the game, and the fastest DBs. You can minimize exposure to AA in this ship, unlike her contemporaries. Getting used to some parts of her may take time, though. Also, her reserves are actually really good. So she's faster than Saipan, doesn't lack HP in a meaningful way, but her hangar's also bigger. Go figure.

 

TO SUM IT UP IF YOU HATE READING WHAT I WRITE:

Kaga and Saipan 

-bad plane survivability

-poor rearm time

-meh speed (compared to GZ)

GZ and Enterprise

-well-rounded strike potential

-good hangar sizes

-one gets speed, one gets forgiving plane rearm, both are things that you want in a CV, and both are things Saipan and Kaga simply fall short in

-if you can only pick one CV, make it Enterprise or GZ

 

I have played Sipan ALOT and I don't understand the hate for it. even in t10 games you can do something.  Its a good ship so I have to question your analysis of the entire lot.

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a. you really didn't need to quote my entire passage

b. I hate defaulting to the "it's just my opinion" statement, so I'll say this more objectively- sure she's not RTS Ranger awful, but she's spectacularly unforgiving- the rearm is two MINUTES, compared to Enterprise, which is near HALF that amount for LARGER GROUPS. Furthermore, if it didn't need to be emphasized enough, the squads are TINY, and the health is just meh as a result. You like it,  and that's great. But I'll pull the card just once. That's YOUR opinion.

(And I should add, if they boasted some massive tankiness, which could withstand like eight flak clouds, I'd understand the logic. But t10 planes still get massacred. It's not a night and day tankiness advantage, and it's not nearly enough to justify the PATHETIC reserves)

c. You CAN do something. Back in closed beta test, a tier five CV uptiered into a t10 game COULD, potentially, eventually do something. Please do not confuse "can" with "will," the two words mean inherently different things. 

Saipan 

-runs out of planes fast

-replaces them painfully slow

-for the marginal benefit of Midway planes, which, in themselves, aren't going to pull miracles, especially not at tier eight, unlike her previous t7 iteration which constantly got top tier. The ships Midway will face, YOU will face, except you're in a quarter of a Midway. 

I think it's amazing if your personal experience leads you to the conclusion that the ship's great. I really do.

But you completely disregard objective comparison for personal "feeling," and, with that "feeling" as a basis, claim my analysis of all four CVs is questionable. Please present a factual rebuttal if you want to be taken seriously, thank you.

d. *Saipan

 


 

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Holy crap, congrats on being completely wrong.

 

Graf Zeppelin only has one useful attack, which is torpedoes. However, this is offset by the GZ torps being nerfed at least twice and thus do low damage and low flood chance. 
The rockets are too slow to be useful against targets with decent AA levels, and the AP bomb circle is terrible with only 2 bombs launched per attack. 

Enterprise is tough to use, perhaps the carrier that scales most with skill level. The torpedoes are great, they use the same T8 torps as the other T8 USN CVs but with lower arm time. 
AP bombs are powerful, but can be very inconsistent and RNG dependent. It takes time to get used to them but once you get the hand of it you'll see 15k+ drops.
It struggles a bit with T10 games, the planes don't hold up as well as other USN T8s.

Saipan is a very good ship once you get used to the strengths and weaknesses. It has three very good types of armament; Tiny Tims, a 4 drop of T8 USN torps, and USN HE bombs. The torp drop is better than that of the Midway's, similar in alpha but higher flood chance. 
However, this ship requires good squad management or else you risk being deplaned. 

Kaga is the queen of T8 CVs. With a near infinite amount of planes, it is very hard to run out unless you go out of your way to do so. It uses a 4 drop TB, however unlike the Haku it has not been touched with nerfs. They are very good at striking BBs and slower cruisers. The dive bombers are extremely good as well. They are by far the easiest DB to strike DDs with in the game due to their attack pattern. With their speed, you can dive into AA to get DBs off onto targets. 
The rockets are only used to place fighters on allies, and for times you really do find a way to run out of planes. 
Yes, they are individually weak planes. However, the Kaga's power comes from the group of planes. 

 

Still, Lexington is still the top T8 CV, but the prem CVs are not far from it bar the Graf Zeppelin. 

 

Kaga > Saipan > Enterprise >> Graf Zeppelin 

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