Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Droz1937

What is special about each of the Premium CVs?

24 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

76
[RTR]
Beta Testers
168 posts
5,420 battles

Are they stupidly OP again? What makes each one unique? I can't see myself giving any more money to Wargaming, but knowing what I am up against would be great. If they made them stupid broken again though, I might have to give them some money again in frustration or just uninstall the game for good.

  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
671 posts
2,542 battles

LittleWhiteMouse did 2 topics analyzing rockets and torpedoes of the premium ships, it's worth a read

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,646
[WOLF3]
Members
25,289 posts
22,304 battles
11 minutes ago, Droz1937 said:

Are they stupidly OP again? What makes each one unique? I can't see myself giving any more money to Wargaming, but knowing what I am up against would be great. If they made them stupid broken again though, I might have to give them some money again in frustration or just uninstall the game for good.

The Premium CVs?  They're not OP.  They definitely had an OP reputation in the Pre-CV Rework days but today, they are reigned in.

 

I'd dare to say that Lexington is at least as good as the Premium CVs, and she's a tech tree CV.

 

LWM has also been talking about the different aspects of the Premium CVs, the intro of which is here:

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,287
[RKLES]
Members
12,246 posts
13,897 battles
18 minutes ago, Droz1937 said:

Are they stupidly OP again? What makes each one unique? I can't see myself giving any more money to Wargaming, but knowing what I am up against would be great. If they made them stupid broken again though, I might have to give them some money again in frustration or just uninstall the game for good.

Actually the main difference is the premium CVs cost money. There used to be a major difference back in RTS CVs, but I doubt the premium CVs are much different now from the tech tree CVs.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,646
[WOLF3]
Members
25,289 posts
22,304 battles
6 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Actually the main difference is the premium CVs cost money. There used to be a major difference back in RTS CVs, but I doubt the premium CVs are much different now from the tech tree CVs.

I remember in the old Pre-CV Rework days, you could have a Double CV game with Tier VII & VI, and a competently played Saipan could single-handedly wipe the skies of both of the tech tree CVs she'd face.  Saipan didn't win so much via strong attack power.  The damage she does is secondary to her unholy air-to-air capability and the exclusive advantage she had in Strafe when escaping locked dogfighting.  Those Corsairs really ripped her competition apart.

 

Kaga has GODLY attack power with her mass TB strikes.

Enterprise had an immense fighter capacity and flexible 2/2/2 spec, alongside HE or AP Dive Bomber options.

Graf Zeppelin had her pinpoint AP Dive Bombers trolling people.

 

They don't have those overwhelming characteristics anymore.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,963
[A-D-F]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,622 posts
19 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Actually the main difference is the premium CVs cost money. There used to be a major difference back in RTS CVs, but I doubt the premium CVs are much different now from the tech tree CVs.

They are a good bit different than the line ships.

The threads linked from LWM explain them in great detail.  A few quick examples though:

The GZ planes are VERY fast, much faster than any of the line ships.

The Enterprise is a bit of "plane factory" with a faster than normal rebuild time and great fighters.

Kaga's gimmick is throw all the things at the wall at once.  She starts the battle with more planes than her peers and has large attack groups.

Saipan's planes are a tier higher than other T8 CVs and as such, "tougher" than normal and hit hard.

The new iteration of the Indomitable that was just shown, is going to be a fire starting pyro.

They of course also all have weakness to balance them out. Some have delicate planes, fewer planes than normal, slow planes etc to maintain balance. These are some things that set them apart from the line ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,551
[PVE]
Members
19,836 posts
12,005 battles
33 minutes ago, Droz1937 said:

Are they stupidly OP again? What makes each one unique? I can't see myself giving any more money to Wargaming, but knowing what I am up against would be great. If they made them stupid broken again though, I might have to give them some money again in frustration or just uninstall the game for good.

16 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The Premium CVs?  They're not OP.  They definitely had an OP reputation in the Pre-CV Rework days but today, they are reigned in.

 

I'd dare to say that Lexington is at least as good as the Premium CVs, and she's a tech tree CV.

 

LWM has also been talking about the different aspects of the Premium CVs, the intro of which is here:

 

Besides those, she put this little summary in another thread. Do check out other CCs as well before making a decision.

 

20 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:
  • Saipan is the most unforgiving of the premium carriers.  While her planes are individually tougher, they still evapourate quickly when mishandled, making her feel no more durable than Kaga when you misstep..  She does not have the reserves to come back from mistakes.  The pay-off for handling her aircraft well and managing her reserves is the best striking power of any of the tier 8 carriers.  Her torpedoes are her best feature, but her rockets and dive bombers are not far behind, with great penetration and dealing sizeable chunks of damage per hit each.  Saipan uses the large Tiny Tim rockets rather than a flurry of smaller munitions.
     
  • Enterprise is the most forgiving.  While her reserves aren't as deep as Kaga's, she regenerates aircraft much faster.  She also has the best fighter groups, tier for tier, in the game.  Her big drawback is the speed of planes which greatly limits her striking power.  You'll spend a lot more time sending your aircraft to and from the target.  Additionally, her individual attacks aren't as hard hitting as her contemporaries.  This said, all three of her aircraft types are viable.  Her dive bombers make use of AP bombs, though, which limits which targets they work well against.
     
  • Kaga is strange.  She has massive squadrons for her torpedo and dive bombers and ridiculous levels of reserves for all of her aircraft.  The catch is that her planes are very fragile and they do not regenerate quickly.  To play Kaga is to watch your squadrons continually hemorrhage planes in horrific numbers in order to push her strikes through.  Kaga's best feature are her torpedo planes and her dive bombers are okay.  Her rockets are terrible, however, and the worst you'll find at tier 8.
     
  • Graf Zeppelin is also an odd duck.  Her best feature, by far, are her torpedo planes.  They are some of the fastest aircraft in the game and more than capable of outrunning most deployed fighters when she activates her boost.  This allows her to cycle her torpedo planes faster than any other tier 8 carrier, taxing damage control parties and stacking damage.  The down side is that her torpedoes don't hit too hard individually, so accuracy and target selection is paramount.  Her rocket aircraft are decent but slow.  She doesn't fire many rockets and they're mostly suited to large targets where their good penetration and decent fire chance can start some damage-over-time effects.  Finally, her dive bombers use AP but they hit like trucks against the right targets.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
114
[IN3PT]
Members
135 posts
19,996 battles

And since they are CVs we know they are all unbalanced and cancerous to game play. That feature alone attracts people who really just enjoy the god mode of playing something with no counter.

  • Boring 2
  • Meh 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,963
[A-D-F]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,622 posts
46 minutes ago, tainteddoughnut said:

And since they are CVs we know they are all unbalanced and cancerous to game play. That feature alone attracts people who really just enjoy the god mode of playing something with no counter.

Could you please tell that to all the AA ships sending my squads to their fiery and then very wet death?  Thanks.

You have about 35 games in the new CVs, the most in one ship at 19 games,  in the Midway.  Your average damage in it is 50K a game with 0.3 ships destroyed.  The highest damage game at 100K. 

I don't think those numbers would be considered "god mode" in any T10 ship, surface or otherwise.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
747
[HELLS]
Members
2,570 posts
25,532 battles
55 minutes ago, Droz1937 said:

Are they stupidly OP again? What makes each one unique? I can't see myself giving any more money to Wargaming, but knowing what I am up against would be great. If they made them stupid broken again though, I might have to give them some money again in frustration or just uninstall the game for good.

The sale price, Mate..too damned expensive, all of them...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,963
[A-D-F]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,622 posts
14 minutes ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

The sale price, Mate..too damned expensive, all of them...

They are between $50 and $60 per ship. That is is the exact range that every other T8 premium ship traditionally costs with the exception of a few T8 DDs, which are a bit cheaper.

In fact, the Kaga and Siapan are cheaper than some of the T8 BBs that have been for sale for a long time.

That said, they seem to be popping out of $5 crates with great abandon, if you like to do a little gambling.  I don't and just paid sticker price for mine but the drop rate on these ships, at least appears to be better than some past crates.


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,988
[SOV]
Members
4,402 posts
18 minutes ago, tainteddoughnut said:

And since they are CVs we know they are all unbalanced and cancerous to game play. That feature alone attracts people who really just enjoy the god mode of playing something with no counter.

unload the game and let the adults do the thinking.

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
251
[-TNT-]
Members
934 posts
17,868 battles

I went to poor man's route and purchased U.S.S. Saipan. However, I will pay top dollar for HMS Indomitable with trimmings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,988
[SOV]
Members
4,402 posts
4 minutes ago, Kestrel_Falcon said:

I went to poor man's route and purchased U.S.S. Saipan. However, I will pay top dollar for HMS Indomitable with trimmings.

Sipan is great.  when you are in a t6 7 and 8 you are very powerful!  Use your torps first, then the DB, then the torps are ready again.

My damage has gotten up to about 80 average. and some amazing games as well.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,963
[A-D-F]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,622 posts
7 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Sipan is great.  when you are in a t6 7 and 8 you are very powerful!  Use your torps first, then the DB, then the torps are ready again.

My damage has gotten up to about 80 average. and some amazing games as well.  

Aye, she get's the most hate of the bunch but I don't get it, I like mine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
114
[IN3PT]
Members
135 posts
19,996 battles
26 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

unload the game and let the adults do the thinking.

Do you mean uninstall the game? Please let the adults do the thinking

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
747
[HELLS]
Members
2,570 posts
25,532 battles
2 hours ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

I've reviewed three of the four and will be posting my thoughts on Graf Zeppelin tomorrow. Shameless plug time.

 

Plug all you please. I'm not paying 72$CDN for one of these ships. And if WG thinks I don't know a scam when I see one, I have yet to see a single player who obtained one of these for free in a regular Fly!Strike!Win! Naval Aviation crate, rather than a Premium shop crate....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,988
[SOV]
Members
4,402 posts
4 hours ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

I've reviewed three of the four and will be posting my thoughts on Graf Zeppelin tomorrow. Shameless plug time.

 

cant wait.  But I d have to ask why everything is so stupid expensive???  I might have bought stuff already but at 60 its a huge decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
138
[R-F2]
Members
352 posts
8,999 battles

Saipan is stupid OP if you know what you’re doing. It has the best rockets and best bombs in the game, and it actually has better torps than the Midway. The planes are super tanky at tier, so with good use of the post- drop immunity windows (both using it to approach past a bunch of AA unharmed and to escape by dumping an attack and using it to be immune while fleeing) you can get in early strikes without losing planes. Later on well, you're basically a Midway, so of course you can farm anything isolated with impunity. When it's top tier? Good lord. You can park your planes on top of a T6 ship if you just feel like watching it burn because it'll never actually hurt you.

Edited by tenfingerstentoes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,754
[TDRB]
Members
4,455 posts
12,611 battles
7 hours ago, Droz1937 said:

Are they stupidly OP again? What makes each one unique? I can't see myself giving any more money to Wargaming, but knowing what I am up against would be great. If they made them stupid broken again though, I might have to give them some money again in frustration or just uninstall the game for good.

I got 2 from the 5 naval aviation containers I purchased. Yes, it was a $22.50 gamble but there was no way was I going to spend $50 or $60 for a CV. I picked up the 3 British CV's also now I have 5 CV's in port that I most likely will never drive.  But I do have ships I can sell if I need a port slot & 3 10pt commanders I can move to other ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
267
[LTPTG]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
2,809 posts
1,478 battles

Got all 4 of them, and Saipan is the best with tier 10 planes. GZ is 2nd due to trolling AP bombs with Kaga 3rd due to more planes to use. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36,557
[WG-CC]
WoWS Community Contributors
11,866 posts
9,743 battles
13 hours ago, Droz1937 said:

Are they stupidly OP again? What makes each one unique? I can't see myself giving any more money to Wargaming, but knowing what I am up against would be great. If they made them stupid broken again though, I might have to give them some money again in frustration or just uninstall the game for good.

To understand what makes them special necessitates having an understanding of the tech tree ships.  Here's a basic overview.

LEXINGTON

rxDCSgI.jpg

Generally speaking, American carriers specialize in their attack aircraft.  While this doesn't make attack aircraft the best weapon to use on said platforms, it does mean that their rockets are hands-down better than those of other nations.  Lexington holds true here, with her attack aircraft being excellent on both counts with even her swarm of small HVAR rockets having enough penetration to best the hulls of battleships (which is all kinds of stupid).  Better still, she has access to the powerful Tiny Tim rockets which, while few in number, hit almost as hard as HE bombs off dive bombers. 

Speaking of dive bombers, Lexington's dive bombers dump a nice HE bomb.  There's not much more to say about these other than her bombers are painfully slow which can result in high casualties.  Up until recently, these were some of the best dive bombers at tier 8 but the patch which corrected their improved accuracy bug has nerfed them considerably, removing their "finger of god" ability to snuff out destroyers on a whim with some high-skill play.  Finally, her torpedo planes are pretty meh.  They're slow (though tough) and drop 3 slow torpedoes at a time.  They do hit hard, though.

On the whole, Lexington is a solid generalist with slow, tough aircraft and reasonable hitting power on all of her munition types.   She is an easy aircraft carrier to use and scales well with player skill.

SHOKAKU

x6kwT9T.jpg

Japanese aircraft carriers specialize in their torpedo bombers, evidenced by their deeper reserves here relative to other carriers.  Their torpedo planes are reasonably fast with surprisingly small detection range compared to all other aircraft types.  Furthermore their torpedoes have a high top speed and are long ranged.  These are the aircraft upon which most attacks are focused, limiting Japanese CV versatility and they tend to pick on larger ships because of this bias.  This is in part due to Shokaku's general inability to stack damage over time effects any other way.  She uses an AP bomb rather than an HE munition on her dive bombers, for example.  Japanese rockets are also lackluster with a poor warhead.

If this sounds like a poor trade compared to Lexington, you're not wrong.  Shokaku's strength is the speed of her aircraft, allowing her to deliver more strikes on target in a shorter time than Lexington.  She pays for this with a lack of versatility in munitions (as described above) and for having the most fragile aircraft of the tech tree ships.  While focusing on making best use of her torpedo planes will yield the best results, myopic focus on their use to the exclusion of other munition types will hurt her gameplay overall.

Shokaku is a challenging aircraft carrier to use but she scales well with player skill.

IMPLACABLE

ynd4IQ8.jpg

British aircraft carriers specialize in their bombers.  They have a unique drop pattern, entering a shallow dive rather than a steep one which greatly facilitates aim.  This attack pattern shares a lot in common with rocket aircraft, and it's not wrong to treat them as oversized rocket planes.  The individual bombs dropped are small -- half the size of those dropped by other nations, with poor damage, penetration and fire chance per hit by comparison. However, where most other dive bomber attack flights might drop between two and six bombers per run, Implacable's flight drops sixteen (!), effectively carpet bombing and saturating it's oblong target area with hits.

Implacable's rockets are surprisingly good, if held back with only modest penetration levels.  She fires more rockets per salvo than almost any other tier 8 carrier, launching 20 of them per attack.  These are particularly good at starting fires on top of the usual mayhem these cause to more lightly armoured ships.  By contrast her torpedo planes are only "okay".  They drop only two torpedoes per attack run and their damage is on the low side.  They do have good flooding chance though and a convergent torpedo drop pattern unique to British carriers.

Implacable specializes in stacking damage over time effects, be it with bombs, rockets or torpedoes.  All three attack types are viable.  She doesn't deal as much immediate direct damage as the other carriers, but few carriers are as apt at taxing the Damage Control Party consumable of your opponents as Implacable is.

Implacable is an easy aircraft carrier to use, but she doesn't scale as well with player skill as other carriers.  There are fewer tricks to master here.

THE PREMIUM CARRIERS

The premium carriers are largely modifications of the above themes, exaggerating them to one degree or another.  The exception is Graf Zeppelin, which is her own beast entirely, though she really could be treated like a Japanese carrier on the whole, having similar strengths and weaknesses.  Here they are, in order of initial release:

SAIPAN

f5d08w.jpg

The design premise of Saipan was to stuff tier 10 aircraft onto a tier 6 carrier hull. Imagine taking Midway's planes and sticking them on a Ranger and you're not too far off.  She has tiny, high-powered squadrons with ridiculous striking power per attack flight.  However, as tough as her individual planes are, she has next to nothing for reserves.  Saipan absolutely punishes her player for making mistakes and it's very easy to be deplaned in this carrier, especially in high tier games.  Like Lexington, all three of her aircraft types are solid but they now boast high-speed on top of their versatility. There are few targets she can't handle.

Saipan is a difficult aircraft carrier to use but she scales better with player skill than any other CV at tier 8 right now.  Depending on the player, she's either a monstrous threat or a limp noodle.

ENTERPRISE

cv6a5.jpg

Enterprise takes Lexington and slaps on training wheels and foam padding.  She's meant to be a beginner's aircraft carrier, providing deep reserves and fast aircraft regeneration.  If there was ever an aircraft carrier in the game to espouse "unlimited hangar capacity", Enterprise is the ship that gets closest to the mark.  She pays for this by taking a healthy hit to her striking power.  This is epitomized with her rocket aircraft which use neither Lexington's Tiny Tims or HVAR rockets, but the downtiered version from Ranger's Wildcats.  This is disappointing to say the least, and it's echoed with her other munition types.  Her torpedo planes are the closest to Lexington's own, but slower and with less hit points per plane.  Her dive bombers are the biggest disappointment, IMO, using AP bombs instead of HE.  This doesn't make Enterprise bad per se, but she's definitely not hard hitting.

She does have her fun quirks, however.  Her aircraft are some of the most agile you'll find at their tier.  Furthermore, she recovers aircraft half again as quickly as other carriers (and twice as fast as Saipan!).  Lastly, she has enormous fighter squadrons which are capable of wiping out almost any aircraft flight they encounter, even Kaga's own monstrous sized squadrons. 

Enterprise is the easiest tier 8 aircraft carrier to use and she scales reasonably well with player skill.

KAGA

kaga6.jpg

Kaga is almost a cartoonish exaggeration of Japanese flaws described above.  Her rockets aren't just bad, they're the worst found at their tier.  Her planes aren't just fragile, they're the weakest at their tier.  These vulnerabilities are used as currency to purchase enormous squadron sizes and ridiculously deep reserves of her torpedo bomber and dive bomber groups.  Her munitions ditto Shokaku's rocket aircraft but with less than half the number of rockets launched per attack run making them downright forgettable.  She drops a weaker torpedo than that found on Shokaku -- on a per hit basis, they're the weakest torpedoes at her tier.  However, she does drop four of them per attack run while maintaining Shokaku's long range and high speed of her torpedoes.  These are easily Kaga's strongest attack.  However, her dive bombers are no slouches.  They eschew the use of an AP bomb and instead make use of an HE drop which allows her to stack fires / bloods between her two primary attack types.

Kaga's shtick is to use her enormous squadrons to push attacks through air defenses other carriers couldn't contemplate risking, relying on her initial deep reserves to absorb the losses.  Playing Kaga can be disheartening to see yourself shedding so many aircraft for only modest gains. 

Kaga is a moderately difficult aircraft carrier to use.  She scales reasonably well with player skill.

GRAF ZEPPELIN

NG9KOTq.jpg

Graf Zeppelin shares some superficial similarities with Japanese carriers and operates closer to them than British or American CVs.  Her gimmick is the speed of her dive bomber and torpedo bombers which are some of the fastest not only at tier 8 but in the game as a whole, greatly reducing exposure to flak and fighters but also accelerating the number of strikes these aircraft can deliver.  Her torpedo bombers are particularly attractive with a long range torpedo like Japanese carriers, however they lack the improved speed of their Axis counterparts.  The warhead is tiny, though, limiting the power of individual strikes. She makes use of an AP bomb like Shokaku and Enterprise.  Her rocket aircraft are curious.  They're slow, for one, but very agile.  Furthemore, they make use of what some people call a "baby Tiny Tim" -- a large rocket with high damage and good fire setting chance, but she fires few of them. 

Graf Zeppelin tends to rely heavily on her torpedo bombers over her other strike craft, taking advantage of their speed to make drop after drop after drop.  She's so fast that she can make 3 drops for ever 2 of Enterprise or Lexington, for example.  However, the relative fragility of her aircraft necessitates managing her reserves carefully to maintain this pace.

Graf Zeppelin is an easy aircraft carrier to use (so long as you stick to her torpedo planes).  She scales very well with player skill.

Conclusions

Wargaming has done a good job balancing the tier 8 premium carriers.  None of them are overpowered, with Saipan being arguably the strongest in the right hands, but Graf Zeppelin providing the simplest route to big numbers early on.  They're each offering unique game play which is also nice to see, but I don't see any of them having universal appeal.

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,551
[ARGSY]
Members
18,363 posts
12,767 battles
15 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Conclusions

This needs to be reposted as a sticky for at least one patch and possibly two. That's my conclusion.

  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×