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Dogget

Scharnhorst vs Tirpitz. Compare and contrast. Talk among yourselves, PLEASE.

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Have at it, boys!  I own both Premiums.  Only played them a few times.  I was able to purchase waaay beyond my skill level.

Now I'm coming back and am learning that I think I bought wisely, even in my ignorance.

I think I'm mostly a cruiser guy, but also own the Alabama, Roma, and a couple other BBs.

Please help me (and our viewers) out.

Talk among yourselves....

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4 minutes ago, Dogget said:

Have at it, boys!  I own both Premiums.  Only played them a few times.  I was able to purchase waaay beyond my skill level.

Now I'm coming back and am learning that I think I bought wisely, even in my ignorance.

I think I'm mostly a cruiser guy, but also own the Alabama, Roma, and a couple other BBs.

Please help me (and our viewers) out.

Talk among yourselves....

Both are solid ships. Scharnhorst pound for pound is the best ship in game (one of at least). I've been in it with like 4 or 5 to 1 in the end and killed everybody. It wasn't just the ship but I doubt I could have did it in any other. 

Edited by _Caliph_
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If you are a cruiser guy, Scharn is gonna be your better friend. Much quicker reload, great speed, and torps. Tirpitz is basically just a Bisnark with torps instead of hydro. Torps are fun an all, but unless you are stupidly close to the enemy, hydro will serve you better. If you like battleships, Scharn almost feels like it's a cruiser. Guns are pretty small and you often get into fights you regret. 

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Both of them are extremely good ships. I've never had an issue with the accuracy on either tbh

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7 minutes ago, Komrade_Rylo said:

Both of them are extremely good ships. I've never had an issue with the accuracy on either tbh

I appreciate your comment, but with you having had so few battles, and even fewer posts, I'm wondering if the weight afforded to your evaluation should be discounted based on your experience.

Thanks! 😊

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48 minutes ago, _1204_ said:

If you are a cruiser guy, Scharn is gonna be your better friend. Much quicker reload, great speed, and torps. Tirpitz is basically just a Bisnark with torps instead of hydro. Torps are fun an all, but unless you are stupidly close to the enemy, hydro will serve you better. If you like battleships, Scharn almost feels like it's a cruiser. Guns are pretty small and you often get into fights you regret. 

I luvs me some quick reload.  (I'm coming Des Moines!)

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If you had trouble with them in the past, I recommend that you play Scharnhorst for now as she‘ll treat you better.

She teaches you that spamming one shell type only will not get you anywhere, but at the same time her Matchmaking is forgiving as is her armor, so making mistakes does not lead to an instant trip back to port. Get an idea on where to aim, what ships to focus (Cruisers primarily), and you‘ll find her a pleasant experience.

Tirpitz is able to face much stronger opponents, but is also stronger herself. She contrasts from Scharnhorst by not requiring HE usage, her other traits however remain.

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Scharnhorst has a much better match making spread. Tirpitz almost always sees tier 10s while Scharnhorst will only occasionally see tiet 9s.  I just have a lot more fun in randoms with Scharnhorst.

Tirpitz is more fun in Coop where you can almost always get into a good brawl with a bot. You can brawl way better with Tirpitz and her longer range secondaries than you can in Scharnhorst.

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1 hour ago, Dogget said:

Have at it, boys!  I own both Premiums.  Only played them a few times.  I was able to purchase waaay beyond my skill level.

Now I'm coming back and am learning that I think I bought wisely, even in my ignorance.

I think I'm mostly a cruiser guy, but also own the Alabama, Roma, and a couple other BBs.

Please help me (and our viewers) out.

Talk among yourselves....

If you must intone Mike Myers' Jewish suburban busy body from 1990's SNL then you must quote correctly!  When offering a topic for deflecting conversation ( at Shiva or Hanukkah) she would say, "talk among-st yourselves".

Mike Myers is a great Canadian ( stand tall Little White Mouse) and I am half Jewish.  Devil is in the details my sweet brother.

Oh and by the way, Tirpitz with strong secondaries for randoms...Frau Scharnhorst for scenarios and low tier/ high brow fun.

Edited by Sinton

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1 hour ago, Sinton said:

If you must intone Mike Myers' Jewish suburban busy body from 1990's SNL then you must quote correctly!  When offering a topic for deflecting conversation ( at Shiva or Hanukkah) she would say, "talk among-st yourselves".

Mike Myers is a great Canadian ( stand tall Little White Mouse) and I am half Jewish.  Devil is in the details my sweet brother.

Oh and by the way, Tirpitz with strong secondaries for randoms...Frau Scharnhorst for scenarios and low tier/ high brow fun.

Your comment is duly noted.  I was cognizant of my choice of no "st."  That celebrated phrase IS a bastardization of an almost universal, non-ethnic directive.  So, after pondering as I typed, and not knowing how many of my audience knew of that skit, I chose vanilla.

I feel bad now.

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So if 2 people were going to argue the 2 ships and one liked Scharnhorst and the other Tirpitz I can see it going like this...

  • Scharnhorst has excellent KM armor - but Tirpitz has better KM armor and a whopping 13,000 more HP
  • Scharnhorst has really good secondary guns - but Tirpitz has better secondary guns (2 more of them and much longer range)
  • Scharnhorst has torps - but Tirpitz has better torps (well 1 more p/ launcher - same torp damage and range)
  • Scharnhorst is fast for a BB at 30.0 knots - but Tirpitz is actually slightly faster at 30.5 knots
  • Scharnhorst has 3X3 fast reloading BB caliber guns (283MM @ 20 sec) - but Tirpitz has better/bigger 4X2 BB caliber guns (380MM) that reload pretty quick too (26 sec) and they actually hurt stuff when they hit (including other BB) because they do a lot more damage (3800 more p/ AP shell) and have better penetration. Tirpitz also has at least the same if not better accuracy as neither one can hit a mountain shooting barns at it.
  • Scharnhorst is more maneuverable (800m & 11.6 sec RS) - true but Tirpitz is almost as maneuverable and the difference is very small (850m & 12.8 RS)
  • Scharnhorst has decent detection for a BB @ 13.7km (with Capt running CE) - but Tirpitz has access to CSM1 and has better concealment with CSM1 & CE @ 12.9km.
  • Scharnhorst has better MM - you got me there.
Both are good but IMO Tirpitz is a lot better.
Edited by AdmiralThunder
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39 minutes ago, CorvetteKaptain67 said:

Shouldn't this be comparing the Gneisenau and Tirpitz? 

Or Schnarnhorst vs. Prince Eugen? 

Hipper is the sister to Eugen, they're heavy cruisers. Scharn is a battleship.

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3 hours ago, Dogget said:

I appreciate your comment, but with you having had so few battles, and even fewer posts, I'm wondering if the weight afforded to your evaluation should be discounted based on your experience.

Thanks! 😊

 

You wot m8?

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1 hour ago, Dogget said:

Your comment is duly noted.  I was cognizant of my choice of no "st."  That celebrated phrase IS a bastardization of an almost universal, non-ethnic directive.  So, after pondering as I typed, and not knowing how many of my audience knew of that skit, I chose vanilla.

I feel bad now.

bless you and all your 'kinder mensch'   I need a tissue as I am a bit verklempt.  That's what happens when you are half Jewish, half Anglican and half druid.  I love the reference.  +1 to you brother!

Don't feel bad, rest in Abraham's bosom.  Next year in Jerusalem!

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3 minutes ago, Sinton said:

bless you and all your 'kinder mensch'   I need a tissue as I am a bit verklempt.  That's what happens when you are half Jewish, half Anglican and half druid.  I love the reference.  +1 to you brother!

Don't feel bad, rest in Abraham's bosom.  Next year in Jerusalem!

Aloha, yourself!  And when Im over there being bosomed, I'll bring a couple of my Israeli Warships for security.  I'm thinking maybe the Alabama and the Baltimore?

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53 minutes ago, Komrade_Rylo said:

 

You wot m8?

I have a gracious reply, but don't know what "wot" means?  

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1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

So if 2 people were going to argue the 2 ships and one liked Scharnhorst and the other Tirpitz I can see it going like this...

  • Scharnhorst has excellent KM armor - but Tirpitz has better KM armor and a whopping 13,000 more HP
  • Scharnhorst has really good secondary guns - but Tirpitz has better secondary guns (2 more of them and much longer range)
  • Scharnhorst has torps - but Tirpitz has better torps (well 1 more p/ launcher - same torp damage and range)
  • Scharnhorst is fast for a BB at 30.0 knots - but Tirpitz is actually slightly faster at 30.5 knots
  • Scharnhorst has 3X3 fast reloading BB caliber guns (283MM @ 20 sec) - but Tirpitz has better/bigger 4X2 BB caliber guns (380MM) that reload pretty quick too (26 sec) and they actually hurt stuff when they hit (including other BB) because they do a lot more damage (3800 more p/ AP shell) and have better penetration. Tirpitz also has at least the same if not better accuracy as neither one can hit a mountain shooting barns at it.
  • Scharnhorst is more maneuverable (800m & 11.6 sec RS) - true but Tirpitz is almost as maneuverable and the difference is very small (850m & 12.8 RS)
  • Scharnhorst has decent detection for a BB @ 13.7km (with Capt running CE) - but Tirpitz has access to CSM1 and has better concealment with CSM1 & CE @ 12.9km.
  • Scharnhorst has better MM - you got me there.
Both are good but IMO Tirpitz is a lot better.

Clever and compelling.  However, the Scharn has TWO vowels in its name.  The Tirpitz only has one...

BUT that vowel is so good, that it's in there TWICE.

So, I seize your point!

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5 hours ago, Dogget said:

Have at it, boys!  I own both Premiums.  Only played them a few times.  I was able to purchase waaay beyond my skill level.

Now I'm coming back and am learning that I think I bought wisely, even in my ignorance.

I think I'm mostly a cruiser guy, but also own the Alabama, Roma, and a couple other BBs.

Please help me (and our viewers) out.

Talk among yourselves....

Both ships require high point captains and fully upgraded ship as well in order to be effective. German BBs are very temperamental unless you give them what they want and then they turn into highly effective weapons of war for you.

Tirpitz requires:

PM, EM, HA, BFT, AFT, SI, and manual secondaries captain skills. Also need the secondary gun signal flags at all times.

Upgrades you require: Secondary gun mod, Rudder shift Mod, Concealment Mod. Other upgrades are up to you.

 

Shcarnhorst requires:

PM, EM, AR, BFT, AFT, SI, and CE skills. And secondary gun signal flags, may want to add some other types of combat signal flags as well.

Upgrades you require are Aiming Mod 1, Rudder shift mod. Other upgrades are up to you.

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Both are great ships. Tirpitz is a standard German BB. If you played Bismack is pretty much the same thing but with torps intead of hydro. Scharnhorst play a little different, it has small calliber guns (for a BB) that reload fast in fast turning turrets. This makes for a different playstyle than normal BBs. 

 

Personally i wouldnt buy any of them. At least not now. German BBs are brawlers, and this playstyle is not very good in the current meta. Also, Tirpitz has very poor AA. Sharn has ok AA but nothing amazing. 

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Both Scharnhorst and Tirpitz are excellent ships but the game has changed considerably since their introduction and the Power Creep is real.

 

There was a time when Scharnhorst was introduced that she was unquestionably the best Tier VII BB in the game.  You even mention that something else was better there, you'd earn justified scorn.  However, ever since Nelson and the Royal Navy Battleships were introduced, Scharnhorst was dethroned.  Nelson and KGV have usurped Tier VII Battleships.  I remember saying this was so when the RN BBs released, people would not believe it, but with time it just became fact.  In KGV alone, as someone that owns, loved using, and succeeded with Scharnhorst (one of my most played ships), the truth became apparent as soon as KGV was rolled out.  It hurt to come to that realization, but the truth is the truth.  Scharnhorst is still an excellent selection this tier.  Just because better, superior rivals have showed up doesn't mean she isn't an effective ship.  But time and Power Creep move on.  The AA is a sore point on the ship.

 

Tirpitz is a very old Premium BB she came out in 2015 was for a long time was the only German BB in the game.  German Turtlebacks, Secondaries, and of course Torpedoes.  She's also fast.  In this game's history, no other ship was as widely bought and played as Tirpitz.  Not Scharnhorst.  Not Caesar.  Not Missouri.  Not Alaska.  Premium CVs and DDs are niche while Battleships are wildly popular, and Tirpitz was insanely popular.  When this ship was new, in Randoms, we used to have both teams in a match mostly made up of Tirpitz, i.e. 10 out of 12 ships of a team were made up by her and the other team was close to that.  This was "Tirpocalypse."  Just as with Scharnhorst in Tier VII she's dealt with lots of game changes and Power Creep.  She however did get a massive boost long ago when her Secondaries range which used to be like Amagi and North Carolina's, were buffed to Bismarck's range.  Anyways.  This BB was never about long range prowess, even back when she was new in 2015.  She was about 3 things:

Torps on a BB.

German BB Turtlebacks;  Staying Power.

The Mega Secondaries of Bismarck's range was added later.

Those 3 things still matter.  Other BBs hesitate, are reluctant to push close with a Tirpitz for fear of Torpedo alpha strike damage.

 

AA Power?  Scharnhorst is very "Meh" in Tier VII, especially since the idea of adopting an AA Build isn't a thing among this playerbase despite being nuked by Carriers.  Scharnhorst players either take ASM1 to help with the Broken Zeiss Optics or SBM1 for Secondary Builds.  AA Build?  What's that?  Tirpitz AA is very bad.  It was never good in 2015 when CVs were far more common and far stronger, and it still isn't even decent in 2019.  Anyways.  If you take a German BB, expect to get picked on by a CV.  Sail with friends or get nuked.  Some German BBs like Gneisenau can be dangerous beasts with AA but AA Builds are rarely practiced on German BBs.  So sail smartly and don't put yourself on a silver platter for a CV to collect.  This isn't like North Carolina, Alabama where you can take an AA Build and dare a CV to come after you.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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