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And what if CVs were like the ones in Navyfield?

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For those that don't know, Navyfield could be considered as the "Father" of WoWs and naval multiplayer games, with Battlestations being the mother.

In navyfield, CVs had a limit on to how many planes they could prepare (put on deck) before a takeoff and they also had pilots squads on standby to pilot the "selected" type of plane, this in itself was a way to balance things out since you could either:

  • Put the maximum amount of planes to be prepared under 1 pilot squad, taking the maximum amount of time to prepare the takeoff but having the maximum amount of planes in the air while you prepare other flights for the other pilot squads you have. For example, you could put 7 Torpedo Bombers on squad 1 and after they're ready ( Each plane would take around 6~10 seconds to be ready, meaning around a minute for a full squad) and after takeoff prepare another flight squadron out of generally 5 squads while performing your duties with squad 1.
  • Put a small amount of planes divided into a number of pilots squads, taking less time to prepare the takeoff but having used flight squads with less numbers. For example, you could put 2 Torpedo Bombers, 2 Dive Bombers and 3 fighters to prepare, taking around 15~20 seconds to send them off but using 3 out of your 5 flight squads to do so.

 

This also meant that CVs had limited planes by their capacity (with fighter planes taking less space) and you could "build" your CV, you could have a CV with 38 torpedo bombers or with 20 torpedo bombers and 18 dive bombers or even a mix of everything with Fighters, Torpedo Bombers, Dive bombers and Scout planes, no CV was the same as the other one, besides the faction.

Another feature was that planes had fuel and the type of armament the plane used, you could equip fast torpedoes with low damage or slow ones with high damage, you could equip HE bombs or AP bombs, every nation also had a difference in the armaments.

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With all that said, let's see some of the most common complaints about CV we have:

  • CVs never run out of planes
  • CVs have no delay to launch their planes
  • CVs can strike anywhere in the map
  • CVs aren't punished enough for fail strikes
  • CVs are always perma spotting ships
  • Higher tier CVs planes are immortal
  • CVs can target DDs with ease

And complaints of CV players:

  • CVs strike damage is really low, specially compared to the old CV
  • CVs attacks aren't rewarding enough with planes getting killed unless the target of the attack dies
  • AA is too strong for the limited attack we make
  • Some Cruisers are only spotted right when they fire their AA...that deals a lot of damage
  • High tier AA are impenetrable
  • Only certain CVs can target some targets like DDs and cruisers

 

There are also other problems but let's not list them all...if you want you can comment on them.

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With the complaints, let's see what implementing some of Navyfield concept would actually create a better enviroment for both CVs AND the wannabe eagles other ships.

Lobby (Things that can only be changed before finding a match):

  • Adding customization to the CVs would mean that no CV is the same as the other (of course, we might end up with "meta", but it would be easier to tweak those using usage and popularity data), one could focus on TBs and the other on fire (attackers and dive bombers).
  • Limiting the amount of planes by the hangar capacity would mean that a player would have to choose between picking 5 attacker planes with weak HP and damage or 3 bombers, one could run out of planes pretty soon if they're careless with the bombers while the other could make it through the entire game with a balanced mix, nation's CVs could also have a benefit here with some planes occupying less space than the same type of plane in other nation.
  • Being able to choose your payload means that you could further increase your strategy and it would also help create a big difference in nation's specialty, for example, IJN could have the usual fast torpedo with 9k damage or it could change to one slower but have more fuel, the same could be applied to USN with being able to chose to drop torpedoes with the same speed as IJN but with longer preparation time (to takeoff).
  • Possibility of choosing the new aircraft type "Scout", which would have increased visibility for ships by air (limit of 5km for DDs) but would have a very limited amount of HP (let's say 800 HP at T10) and mobility meaning that if the CV wishes, he could spot players but not be able to deal damage, while also not being able to keep a DD perma spotted since most DDs are able to dish out 100+ constant damage with flak.
    • The main feature of the scout would be:
      • Able to spot cruisers at...for example...8km (Combined with the speed and HP, if the player isn't careful enough, it might get instantly shot down by a 7km AA)
      • Maximum speed of 130 knts, cruise speed of 110 knts (Meaning that if the player wants to make the first scout, it'll take a while to go to a place where you're able to spot all the enemies).
      • Maximum preparation time of 6 seconds (Meaning that if the player wants to make the first scout safer, it'll take a while to prepare more planes in order to increase the effective HP so as to not get shot down by AA DDs)
      • More fuel than other planes

 

Pre-match and using the scoreboard:

This one might not be a "like" from CV players, but if the previous ideas passes, it would be needed

  • On the pre-match and during the match, hovering over a CV player would give you a detailed information of the planes he has on board, meaning that your team could be prepared for their attacks, if the enemy CV has for example 80% torpedo bombers and 20% dive bombers, hugging an island might not be as dangerous as if the enemy had 80% dive bombers and 20% torpedo bombers. Those numbers would of course be in exact numbers and if needed could also give more details like the payload (AP or HE bombs) and flight time (fuel).

 

During the match:

  • CVs would be able to choose how many planes they want in the flight squad, ranging for the maximum of 2-3-5-6 based on tier (High CV have higher number because of the increase in AA that kills more planes and the limitation on planes).
    • This seems a lot at first, but let's say that the T4 planes have a maximum of 3 seconds preparation time, this would mean a 6 seconds delay between EACH attack run, and let's say that the T10 plane have 8 seconds preparation time, it would mean an entire 48 seconds (reduced with skills and modules) just to takeoff....40~60 seconds is usually the time it takes for a T10 CV plane after the rework to reach the target and make the first drop, this means that for the big numbers in damage, you have to prepare more time.
  • The enemy players wouldn't have to fear constant attack waves because there would be a preparation time, but they'd have to fear that the longer the CV prepares itself, the deadlier the attack will be.
    • With a base value of 8 seconds for example, a T10 Midway could spend 48 seconds preparing 6 DBs that would drop 12 bombs (if none is shot down)....if 3 already hurts you know what happens with 6...but again, preparation time of 2 BB salvos only for takeoff, then there is the time to reach the target and the possibility of getting shot down and reducing the damage.
      • The bigger the number of planes in the squad for Attackers and bombers, the bigger the reticle, meaning that 6 DBs would end up with a reticle 2 times bigger than what we have in the game already, the bigger number for torpedoes on the other hand will increase the aiming time.
  • With the limitations on planes, enemy players would feel better when destroying an enemy plane since it would permanently cripple the enemy CV and in the possibility of the enemy CV having a full bomber CV, this would be lethal since the bombers uses more space.
  • With the increase in the attack flight, CV players would feel better with the damage when doing a perfect attack run and at the same time will be punished if they fail.
  • With the modifications in the payload, players could apply various tactics.
  • With the new limiter "fuel", players wouldn't be able to fly around doing nothing for long periods of time, instead they'll be forced to act or to retreat.
    • The "base" fuel for T10 planes for example would be for planes to fly 40 kms in a straight line before having to return to the ship, it usually takes around 30km to reach the enemy frontline right at the start of the match but considering the preparation time, it'll be reduced to about 25 kms, meaning that if you need to make a different approach for the first attack, you'll have only 15km of fuel left before being "FORCED" to retreat (Not like in Navyfield where you could force your planes to stay for longer periods of time at the costs of having to ditch them).
      • Of course, the "fuel" won't be stated as in kms, It'll just use the kms as a mean to calculate the amount of time the plane can fly using cruiser speed (with the time decreasing faster by speeding up or slowing down, with the engine skill being replaced as "doesn't consume extra fuel while maneuvering for X seconds").

--------------------------

Example of a T10 Hakuryuu player:

I'll be using the Hakuryuu because it's the CV I have to check for data, I'll also be using only the Torpedo Bomber for example in the attack run since it's the one I have upgraded to the maximum survivability, what most CV players use.

I'll also be using the Torpedo acceleration skill, which will increase torpedo speed and arming distance but reduce range

No fuel balancing will be done since it requires more data to be tested (such as the time it takes for the torpedo bomber to reach 20km mark and then multiply by 2 to get the fuel value in minutes)

The name of the armaments are just for humor but seems possible to have multiple options due to the amount of projects and bombs used during the war (even modified shells for example).

Let's set that the Hakuryuu have space for 100 planes, close to the one before the rework, from those 100 planes, let's also say that:

  • 30 are attackers and each plane occupies 60
    • A T10 attacker have: 1560 base HP
  • 40 are torpedo bombers and each plane occupies 100
    • A T10 torpedo bomber have: 1810 base HP and maximum of 2265 HP
  • 30 are dive bombers and each plane occupies 120
    • A T10 dive bomber have: 1800 base HP

 

With all that, the Hakuryuu has a capacity of 9400 units.

 

Now, let's say player "A" is faithful to the way of the torpedo and he sets his carrier to have:

  • 60 Torpedo bombers
  • 20 Dive bombers
  • 16 Attackers

 

Now let's check the weaponry:

  • Torpedo Bombers (with torpedo acceleration) have a base damage of 9333, torpedo range of 4.8km, speed of 55 knts and arming distance of 738m. The base preparation time is also 8 seconds.
    • But player "A" strategy is to drop really close to the enemy and abuse cliffs, so instead of using the base torpedo, he'll use the "Torpedo Gaijin 1" which has 7000 damage, torpedo range of 3km, speed of 45 knts and arming distance of 400m. The base preparation time is 10 seconds.
      • The torpedo Gaijin 1 is "better" than RN CVs and a little bit worse than USN CVs because torpedoes are the "main specialty of IJN CVs" in this example, USN DBs for example would have more value than IJN ones.
  • Dive bombers have a base damage of 8500, and only carry 1 bomb in the payload with a pretty thin reticle.
    • But player "A" strategy for DBs is to use HE to farm damage with damage over time, so he uses the "Stolen Cleveland Shell" which has a base damage of 2200 with a 40% chance of fire and carries 2 bombs in the payload.
      • Here we can see that the bomb is way worse than USN DBs but it's a given for fire starters and to destroy AA modules.
  • Attacker planes have a base damage of...ok...let's skip this one...
    • Seriously...player "A" doesn't like rockets...and I'm tired already...

 

With those weaponry and the maximum squad size of 6, the Torpedo Bombers have those maximum stats:

  • HP of 13590 [WILL POSSIBLY NEED A CHANGE TO INCREASE HP SINCE THE FLIGHT SQUAD IS REDUCED OR A NERF IN CERTAIN AAs]
    • Remember that currently at T10, most squads have 12 planes per flight with a lot of HP and planes to spare to do the attack run, in this case here I'm considering that it would be balanced to have at least 2 planes drop the payload towards an isolated heavy AA ship (if you don't get hit by flak) and 5 to an isolated non AA ship (if you don't get hit by flak).
      • Remember that currently the meta is to "blob" and an HP pool of 13590 doesn't survive for long, meaning that players will have to make use of long drops in order to put the maximum amount of torpedoes or to sacrifice damage to benefit precision and drop them closer.
  • Maximum possible damage of 42000
    • Remember, there will be a lot of misses because of the size of the spread, the enemy dodging, AA damage, the increased aim time and the torpedo belt reduction, for example, the Yamato would receive only 3150 damage for torpedoes that hit the torpedo bulge. In the worst cases, saturation.
  • Preparation time for takeoff: 60 seconds (before any reductions)
    • If you see, 60 seconds is way too much, but it's this way so that modifications and skills that decrease preparation time shine again, I'd say that a 20% decrese in preparation time through modifications (removing for example HP and stealth mod) and skills would be a good number.
  • Fuel: Enough for 40km flight (under cruising speed)
    • Meaning that if the player has a "sure target" or if the player is closer to the battlefield, the player will be able to use all the fuel to increase the speed of the planes.
      • Remember that if the fuel "runs out", the plane will be forced to return to the carrier, even if you only needed 1 more second.

 

Possible exploit fixes:

  • "Catapulting" will no longer be available since there won't be "2nd attack runs" for it to trigger.
  • If the plane "runs out of fuel", it'll automatically return to the ship and will be invulnerable while doing so, this won't apply if the plane has dropped the payload already (meaning that you won't be able to do "last seconds of fuel drops" to try and get invulnerability but it'll also help new CV players that are still learning the timing of things, basically, if you didn't attack, you don't lose your plane).
  • The "preset" for a selected squad will always try to fill it to the maximum amount, you can reduce it via scroll whell.
  • No longer "increased cruise speed" for planes since it'll be based on a preset time that will be reduced via the usage of boost.
  • Planes will no longer take exiting AA fire for free and you won't be locked down during exiting animation, instead they'll start climbing right after the attack while advancing 500m.
  • No more problems with exiting AA passing through mountains
  • No more "mass death" bug because of bugged flak after the attack run
  • No more "border bumping" after your attack run since there won't be another attack squad.
  • Fighters will be actually more lethal with the reduced number of planes per squad, being able to actually cripple an attack squad instead of "killing the extras"
  • No more fighter exploits since there won't be another squad for the fighters to focus (this has been fixed already...I think).

 

And maybe some more....we'll see....

-----------------------------

 

Well, that was a lot of work but to be honest, I had fun doing so, I love to think about those possibilities and I also loved Navyfield, I even used to write down some strategies to use with CVs, read guides of AA angles and dogfighting and discuss with my friends at school, back then it was THE GAME.


Well...there will probably be some mistakes in this thing...probably because I had to review some things like the preparation time (I thought first that 12 seconds was a good idea...then I remembered that the game lasts 20 minutes and you can only have 1 squad up at a time).

If this idea were to pass, one of the things that will need changes ASAP would be concentrated AA and low tier planes HP, mostly because a T8 plane against a T10 AA already have problems, if we reduce the squad size and also add limitation to the number of planes we'll have a sure problem.

 

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  • Meh 2

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No.

It's to complicated and would require a very heavy UI to work which would result in to high of a skill gap. The system the Carriers have now is the best one.

But players won't be happy until WG re-think the interaction so planes are not shot down by arbitrary AA without the surface ship using any skill and create a system that the surface ship player has to interact with or risk having no defense against Aircraft if they don't.

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I played CV in NF and I much prefer the WoWS rework version of CV play.

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No if we all remember back in navy field if you got enough vets on the pilots they total become immune to aa.... i use to run tb down low on the deck and circle ships over and over again.. also the vet boost became a cash grab...

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Take a look at this topic. 

Notice the date it was posted :cap_wander_2:

I would love for CVs to be more like NF. It would make them more interesting and fun to play. "Skill gap" is just some buzzword phrase people use to describe something they don't like. It doesn't mean anything as long as there is relevant counterplay. The Daring and Khaba have about as big of a skill gap as CVs do, but nobody complains about that. 

 

What I still want translated from NF to WoWS is the pilots system, fuel limit or flight timer, and manual AA of some form. Yes, it would be complex, but I think players would enjoy playing CVs and getting better at them. That's the entire point of having mechanics that have depth to them. On the other hand, with some form of manual AA, surface ships wouldn't feel helpless against CVs. 

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6 hours ago, JustAdapt said:

I played CV in NF and I much prefer the WoWS rework version of CV play.

It's too dumbed down for my liking. There's no CV vs CV interaction. It's very repetitive. It's not very satisfying since there's not much counterplay. 

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7 hours ago, Mheetu said:

No if we all remember back in navy field if you got enough vets on the pilots they total become immune to aa.... i use to run tb down low on the deck and circle ships over and over again.. also the vet boost became a cash grab...

Yes, I hated those, in WoWs it wouldn't be possible though

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9 hours ago, Pyrofiend said:

It's too dumbed down for my liking. There's no CV vs CV interaction. It's very repetitive. It's not very satisfying since there's not much counterplay. 

I disagree, there is still plenty of counterplay and it is far more enjoyable than the old RTS/NF stalemate version of CVs. 

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