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Carriers. Do they improve the game or no?

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So lets be honest, World of Warships is first and foremost a surface warfare combat game. With that being said do you think the presence of carriers makes game play better or worse?

Yes I understand we are not getting rid of CV's. No matter how much you hate them they are hear to stay. The question is do they make game play better or worse and why?

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3 minutes ago, Ski206 said:

do you think the presence of carriers makes game play better or worse?

98B0FAB9-8993-40B9-92DC-DF08F890EBB8.jpeg.941217f475db89d6e638fdae83d8c104.jpeg

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No. CVs as is, do not make WOWS better.

Mainly, CVs in game role/job/duties, are no longer "historically accurate."  The CV as portrayed right now... Is not the reflection of the CVs in historic battles which gives her the formidable reputation.

Many well enjoy WOWS interpretation of the CV class and its cool, Bless them. On merit of what the CV rework core mission statement was  meant to be, its a fail.

Edited by Navalpride33
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CV are mainly to cause fear to DD and cruisers. BB can slug off the damage if they have good AA. 

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15 minutes ago, Ski206 said:

So lets be honest, World of Warships is first and foremost a surface warfare combat game. With that being said do you think the presence of carriers makes game play better or worse?

Yes I understand we are not getting rid of CV's. No matter how much you hate them they are hear to stay. The question is do they make game play better or worse and why?

Well, to start off this "soon to be hateful thread", Carriers are also a surface vessel.

Now to other points, without the presence of carriers, you'll need scapegoats to go out there and spot for you, those scapegoats will most likely be deleted by the enemy. Carriers enter the game in order to provide a lifeline for the scapegoat and to attack targets isolated.

Carriers in this game would be something like Arty in WoT, without them, it would be a game of "who gets spotted first".


To my understanding, carrier punishes "YOLO players" by keeping them in check to their crazy tactics, I for example tried to do a "yolo rush" on a cap of the map where there were 3 T6 cruisers and I got my a ton of planes coming for me...all that because I was solo, the CV always managed to drop at least twice and in no time I was dead, if there were no CV though, those 3 cruisers would be dead really quickly or retreating and leaving a cap for me...ALONE.

But at the same time, playing as CV, I find it that from time to time I don't have "FUN" when the enemy just blobs up and my damage doesn't rack up as nicely as for example a BB or Cruiser with HE spam, in those matches all I can do is spot and wait for opportunities.


I believe that in order for carriers to be completely balanced, there will be a need to change certain interactions, CVs by itself have theorically really big alpha, but those numbers dwindle and are always a let down if you're not targetting isolated targets with weak AA, in most cases you can only drop twice (T8 and T10 matches, T6 and bellow you can just stomp them all) and by that it means that your 2 min or more attack preparation awards 10~20k damage.


Tl;dr:

  • CVs in general are really OP against targets 2 tiers bellow but are useless against even tiers and 2 tiers above.
  • CVs have very limited damage sources and high preparation times, they're more suited to do the "reaper" job than the damage dealer with some exceptions (T10 CVs and against targets 2 tier bellow).
  • CVs have the amazing potential to scout for your teammates...but only at one part of the map and sacrificing their DPS.
  • Some CVs are clearly a lot stronger than others, making balancing a big problem.
  • CVs survivability comes out of constant skill checks (dodging flak) and sadly, abusing exploits (catapulting on high tier matches).
  • CVs are extremely RNG dependant and need help from teammates to deal damage with Fires and Floodings (since most attacks takes 90 seconds but DCP takes only 100~110 seconds to recharge).
  • CVs are the only class where they can have their damage source cut during the attack and also having the possibility of getting neutralized (blobbing), no other ship in the game have this problem.

 

All in all, CVs are a good addition to the game, their presence makes players change their tactics instead of YOLO rushing and torp spamming at the edge of the map. Without CVs there would be also a need for ships with low detectability to be able to spot targets behind cover, which would mean a big risk for this player since he could also be detected and easily killed doing his scout job.

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Now, historically speaking, Carriers are nowhere near their main role, the use of CVs changed the Navy Warfare in a way that anything that didn't carry attack planes were escorts...in other words, support for the main ships.

 

Here in WoWs, Carriers are support and their armament are really weak, specially with the limited payload and flight squads.

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They make the game more complex, and they've redressed the meta. Whether that's a positive or negative depends on how you feel about complexity, and the old meta.

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2 CVs in a game is ok. It's when u get into 4 or 6 territory is when it gets bad.

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Pre-rework they did improve the game, tremendously IMHO.

With the mirror match, they had to deal with other carriers and could not always just swarm on a few targets (unless both CV did not have fighters)
Even then, a proper AA build, even on some average ships and not some AA monsters where good enough that you took out a couple planes every strike the CV tried on you.  Those planes would NOT regenerate at all, instead limited by hangar size and from my limited experience playing CVs, you could lose it all if you played stupid.
You could almost devstrike someone (easier at certain tiers with certain CVs), but you had maybe one such coordinated attack every 3 minutes or so.

So surface ship had a piece of the cake, CVs had a piece of the cake, and it as fair game for everyone IMHO.
I never had the bad luck of being kept spotted as a DD, but I'm not a huge DD player... Radar was way worse to me.

Since the rework, carriers can do relentless attacks on many targets and can relaunch planes on a dime.
Since the attacks technically do not really ever stop, made worse by 2 or god forbid 3 CVs per side, the improvements they bring (against camping mostly, and definitely spotting) are overshadowed by making the game miserable to a lot of players.
Of course they can still get plane wiped, but with evading flak burst and only making one assault on well defended targets, you can make your planes last longer... some even have repairs.

TL;DR --> They did improve the game a lot before rework, now it's a major pain and the answer is a resounding no.

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All the other ships play mostly defensively. This game rewards defensive play better than aggressive play, because the rewards for being aggressive are minimal compared to risk.

  • DD: Totally best at kiting. Have you even tried launching torps into ships kiting away from you?
  • Cruiser: Totally a kiting ship, if not an island camping ship.
  • BB: generally better at kiting, but absolutely the 2nd best ship to push with
  • CV: All it does is attack with overwhelming force. Oh, and it's also pretty good at blunting enemy pushes too

Ergo, CV doesn't mesh well with how the game plays.

Do people remember playing with offensive smoke pushes or using open water stealth firing aggressively? That was a pretty strong offensive and defensive tool to use, but WG thought they were too strong, so those were nerfed.

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CVs are a mistake. I'm sure even some at WG wish they could go back and never introduced them, but the mess around refunding premium CVs means that really will never happen. 

OTOH, if they had never been introduced I'm guessing many/most who don't like them now would be clamoring for them and demanding them, probably including me. 

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31 minutes ago, ALROCHA said:

Now, historically speaking, Carriers are nowhere near their main role, the use of CVs changed the Navy Warfare in a way that anything that didn't carry attack planes were escorts...in other words, support for the main ships.

 

Here in WoWs, Carriers are support and their armament are really weak, specially with the limited payload and flight squads.

Truth.  At least on USN CV aircraft, they're fighting with one hand tied behind their back.  They're not loaded out with options like they could have been:

Corsair with HVAR ***AND*** Tiny Tims

f4u-5.png

Another with HVAR rockets fired ahead of a Tiny Tim.

mP1dNNc.jpg

AD-1 Skyraider with 12 HVARs and 2 Tiny Tims :Smile_trollface:

Douglas_AD-1_Skyraider_armed_with_rocket

More Skyraider goodness!  We definitely can't load out like these! 

12 bombs and 3 torpedoes on the closest Skyraider.

12 HVARs, 2 Tiny Tims on the back Skyraider.  AND a bomb.  Just because.

AM-1s_armed.jpg

And a Corsair with TWO 1000lb bombs!

Vought-F4U-1D-Corsair-carring-two-1000-p

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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1 minute ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Truth.  At least on USN CV aircraft, they're fighting with one hand tied behind their back.  They're not loaded out with options like they could have been:

Corsair with HVAR ***AND*** Tiny Tims

f4u-5.png

Another with HVAR rockets fired ahead of a Tiny Tim.

mP1dNNc.jpg

AD-1 Skyraider with 12 HVARs and 2 Tiny Tims :Smile_trollface:

Douglas_AD-1_Skyraider_armed_with_rocket

More Skyraider goodness!  We definitely can't load out like these!

AM-1s_armed.jpg

And a Corsair with TWO 1000lb bombs!

Vought-F4U-1D-Corsair-carring-two-1000-p

Indeed, even the IJN with their modified Nagato's shells doesn't do the AP damage a Nagato's shell does...imagine if the IJN AP DBs used the modified shells of BBs of the same tier? T10 Haku with flying mini-mini Yamatos, that would be priceless.

Their planes with high maneuverability are also not in the game, IJNs planes were known to their maneuverability and the weak armor, we only have the downsides of it here.

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No CVs do not help the game. I took off a few months for the rework and it has been awful coming back. IJN DDs are miserable. My Atlanta was just torped by two waves of tier 6 torp bombers. Just no good play IMHO. IE. Not a fan.

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They would improve the game if you had some sort of option to dabble in the target life.  Being a prisoner to the CV spree is a little like having fun at the gulag.  Sure, you can have fun.  But, its still a gulag.

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8 minutes ago, ALROCHA said:

Indeed, even the IJN with their modified Nagato's shells doesn't do the AP damage a Nagato's shell does...imagine if the IJN AP DBs used the modified shells of BBs of the same tier? T10 Haku with flying mini-mini Yamatos, that would be priceless.

Their planes with high maneuverability are also not in the game, IJNs planes were known to their maneuverability and the weak armor, we only have the downsides of it here.

We can't even choose the loadout for the aircraft.  It's all fixed in WoWS.

 

What if I want all my aircraft to be loaded to the max with HVARs and Tiny Tims at the same time?  Can't do that.

 

What about my Tier IX-X USN CV bombers fitted like the Skyraiders? 

What if I want one squad fitted with 12 HVARs + 2 Tiny Tims  + Bomb with the second bomber squad fitted with 3 Torpedoes and 12 bombs?  With my Corsairs fitted with 1000lb bombs x2.  Can't do that :Smile_veryhappy:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I barely notice them, except a few cases.

1. 2-3 per team

2. Tier 10 CVS

Which is a change. Prior to rework, I feared Kagas  and saipans. Now only tier 10 Cvs  are like that for me, and it requires a very good player.

Do I overall think they improve the game? Not really, but there does seem to be enough players who enjoy them, so if, big if, it works out; I'm happy for them.

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IMO, no. CVs just make the game worst. All the constant spot limits the moves you can make. The only way to be safe from CVs is to join blobs/lemming trains, which in turn makes the game slow/passive. In general CVs limits what you can and cant do in a battle and this makes the game boring. 

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No. They make the game incredibly un-enjoyable. 

It's ruined the game.

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2 hours ago, ALROCHA said:

Tl;dr:

  • CVs in general are really OP against targets 2 tiers bellow but are useless against even tiers and 2 tiers above.
  • CVs have very limited damage sources and high preparation times, they're more suited to do the "reaper" job than the damage dealer with some exceptions (T10 CVs and against targets 2 tier bellow).
  • CVs have the amazing potential to
  • scout a big problem. for your teammates...but only at one part of the map and sacrificing their DPS.
  • Some CVs are clearly a lot stronger than others, making balancing
  • CVs survivability comes out of constant skill checks (dodging flak) and sadly, abusing exploits (catapulting on high tier matches).
  • CVs are extremely RNG dependant and need help from teammates to deal damage with Fires and Floodings (since most attacks takes 90 seconds but DCP takes only 100~110C seconds to recharge).
  • CVs are the only class where they can have their damage source cut during the attack and also having the possibility of getting neutralized (blobbing), no other ship in the game have this problem.
 

Let me correct this.

  • CVs, in general, are really OP against targets 2 tiers bellow but are useless against even tiers and 2 tiers above at the start of battle, becomes average once a few cruisers have died in the middle of the game, and by the end of the game can ensure no last-ditch cap/ running away for points is possible and helping secure the win.
  • CVs have very limited damage sources and high preparation times, they're more suited to do the "reaper" job than the damage dealer with some exceptions (T10 CVs and against targets 2 tier below). To account for this WG gave them a time compression for aircraft speed that in the case of the Gz equates to mach 1.9 and is able to turn at those speeds with non-delta wing planes at sea level.
  • CVs have the amazing potential to scout for your teammates...but only at one part of the map and sacrificing their DPS. However because they are doing damage to dd's as a primary they will get more XP and credits for the effort and will most likely turn away an enemy dd from his role of objective control allowing allied dds to capture the zone and gain points to win the game. After all winning is what is really important here.
  • CVs are extremely RNG dependent and need help from teammates to deal damage with Fires and Floodings (since most attacks takes 90 seconds but DCP takes only 100~110C seconds to recharge). Much like every other class in the game.
  • Some CVs are clearly a lot stronger than others, making balancing harder, look at the Kaga, enterprise, and the GZ. Then, of course, you have both speed and life gains of t10 that can easily negate most noncruiser aa ensuring you will consistently be able to have multiple drops 1v1 against any target that doesnt have dfaa.
  • CVs survivability comes out of constant skill checks (dodging flak) and sadly, abusing exploits (catapulting on high tier matches). However skillful use of W and S keys as well as A and D can render some of this skill check non-existent in a 1v1 scenario
  • CVs are the only class where they can have their damage source cut during the attack and also having the possibility of getting neutralized (Blobbing), no other ship in the game have this problem. This is if you ignore the fact that any surface ship can have it's torpedo launcher and gun systems permanently destroyed and are too impatient to move to other sectors where the "Blobbing" is less intense. You should also ignore the fact that unlike the gun systems when a cv loses a squad of planes they have reserves of that type of plane and 2 other sets, with exception to premium UK cv to switch to while waiting for the depleted squad to restore to full health. Gun and torpedo systems once destroyed cannot be recovered with any consumable or captain skill but several captain skills exist that can modify the replenishment of CV planes, AR and AS which are tier 2 and 1 skills respectively.
  • CV also has the ability to give accurate fire control data on ships over 20km from a spotted enemy and the ability to use the F3 key to call for AA suppression.
  • CV's can also Drain multiple consumables, without them having much of an impact.
  • CV's planes Do regenerate but the regeneration is rather tedious, unlike AA guns that once they are destroyed they do not regenerate or cannot be repaired.

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This game is no longer enjoyable for me because of the insistence on CV's.  If I wanted to deal with warplanes, I will play with World of Warplanes.  I no longer play any of my DD's because I can no longer do my job as a DD.  Everyone groups up and stays back while yelling at the DD to cap - not fun.  I used to spend a lot of time and money on this game - that has come to a stop.  No more premium time, no more premium ships - I will just play for free.  I guess this game evolution is good in that I go out more often.

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