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thehelmsman

Stukas / Graf Zep

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Okay. So. BE ADVISED, all who would purchase the GZ: it does not have Stukas any more. Ignore the promo material on the store page. These were, apparently, replaced with Ta 152 interceptor planes for some reason. And I find that highly disappointing. If you were interested in the ship because of the Stukas, like I mostly was, save your money. They're not there any more.

--Helms

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It is highly disappointing because the Stuka is one of the best-known aircraft of the war and because the Jericho siren was so unique. WG even implemented it because people wanted the feature, even though not all Stukas had it.

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10 minutes ago, GE_Capital said:

This was well-known.....your fault buddy.

Maybe to people that already had it. The Stukas are still CLEARLY shown in the promo material on the store page. This, incidentally, is the point I am trying to make. Those of us who did not buy the ship the first time around because it wasn't finished (and the CCs told us as much) and have been waiting patiently for it to come back around might well be disappointed to learn that the ship doesn't have the iconic Stukas any more.

This is at best an oversight on WG's part, putting it back in the store with the old screenshots that no longer reflect the ship's loadout. The more cynical folks on the forums would likely posit that it's left that way to mislead, but I don't think I'd go that far. In any case, it should be fixed so people know what they're getting.

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

--Helms

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The Ta-152 wasn't even intended for carrier use that I've ever been able to find. The Me-155 was mostly based on the Bf-109 and was for the most part a carrier variant of that aircraft. The Fi-167 was considered for use but ultimately not chosen, and the Ju-87C Stuka was intended to be a carrier-based bomber.

Where, exactly, did the use of the Ta-152 come from?

Here's the image Helmsman refers to.

Edited by Raptormama
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Would a JU-87's be able to take off from a CV with a bomb load heavy enough to damage warships?

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It would have carried one 500 kg bomb and four 50 kg bombs. The ship had catapults, so it could have launched heavier aircraft than a ship without them.

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Quote

and the Ju-87C Stuka was intended to be a carrier-based bomber.

Got my answer. I looked up the "C" model.

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2 minutes ago, Raptormama said:

The Ta-152 wasn't even intended for carrier use that I've ever been able to find. The Me-155 was mostly based on the Bf-109 and was for the most part a carrier variant of that aircraft. The Fi-167 was considered for use but ultimately not chosen, and the Ju-87C Stuka was intended to be a carrier-based bomber.

Where, exactly, did the use of the Ta-152 come from?

Here's the image Helmsman refers to.

The R-14 variant of Ta-152 would supposedly be carrying torpedoes. That said, you can only find the plane in model kits.

What I can't understand is why they just didn't use any variant of Fw-190, a plane that carried both torpedoes and bombs AND was actually active.

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Ta-152: Purpose-built high altitude interceptors that are just navalised for carrier use because why exactly? Like, Fw-190's would have made more sense than this.

Ugh, this must have been set-up by the same guy that put J5Ns on the Hakuruyu for the same dumb reason: a high altitude interceptor that is for some reason navalised because why not it looks cool.

I swear, the whole IV-VI-VIII-X matchmaking scheme is all to blame for this as they have to balance aircraft carriers into just 4 tiers is just ridiculous. As such, they can only use 4 eras of naval aircraft to put on their aircraft carriers. If this was a tier VII premium aircraft carrier we wouldn't have this problem of having hypothetical converted aircraft; same deal with the Kaga.

I really hope that when they add the Hiryu, Essex, Taiho, ect back in to the tech trees, that they git rid of this stupid IV-VI-VIII-X matchmaking setup. Trying to squeeze all these aircraft carriers into just 4 tiers and both accurately represent them and have them be balanced is impossible.

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Hey guys just confirm, yes these are marketing materials and the GZ does not have Stukas.  This ship has been in development for quite some time, we're excited that's released for everyone, and are very interested in what you guys think of it now.

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23 minutes ago, thehelmsman said:

Okay. So. BE ADVISED, all who would purchase the GZ: it does not have Stukas any more. Ignore the promo material on the store page. These were, apparently, replaced with Ta 152 interceptor planes for some reason. And I find that highly disappointing. If you were interested in the ship because of the Stukas, like I mostly was, save your money. They're not there any more.

--Helms

what WG disappointed you...iam shocked

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Radar -- I like the ship, but we want to know why the ship had Stukas but doesn't anymore; we're saying we'd like to see the ahistorical 152s switched back to Stukas, is all. Even if the stats aren't changed and we just get the Stuka model/sounds.

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1 minute ago, SuperCustodiam said:

I swear, the whole IV-VI-VIII-X matchmaking scheme is all to blame for this as they have to balance aircraft carriers into just 4 tiers is just ridiculous. As such, they can only use 4 eras of naval aircraft to put on their aircraft carriers. If this was a tier VII premium aircraft carrier we wouldn't have this problem of having hypothetical converted aircraft; same deal with the Kaga.

Indeed. I pointed out after the rework that I found it mildly annoying that Kaga no longer gets to use the aircraft it historically carried. It was sunk before any of the aircraft it now uses were in widespread service, and even the D4Y had only just been introduced and was never flown from Kaga. None of the Japanese carriers that actually participated in the Pearl Harbor attack can use the planes they had at that time, any more.

--Helms

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The Ju87 is simply not fast enough, especially at tier 8. Fixed gear with a gull wing. 

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6 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

Hey guys just confirm, yes these are marketing materials and the GZ does not have Stukas.  This ship has been in development for quite some time, we're excited that's released for everyone, and are very interested in what you guys think of it now.

That's the point of this thread. I strongly believe you should update the marketing material to reflect the current state of the ship, and do so as soon as possible. Pass this along to WG's marketing folks, please. It's a more significant matter than some people in here probably realize.

--Helms

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7 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

The Ju87 is simply not fast enough, especially at tier 8. Fixed gear with a gull wing. 

It wouldn't be the first time they've given things in this game 'magic'/ahistorical speed buffs to make them competitive.

--Helms

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3 minutes ago, thehelmsman said:

It wouldn't be the first time they've given things in this game 'magic'/ahistorical speed buffs to make them competitive.

--Helms

Very true. Cruising IAS on all aircraft in WoWs is inaccurate.

I completely understand players wanting such an iconic aircraft in a naval variant.

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8 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

Very true. Cruising IAS on all aircraft in WoWs is inaccurate.

I was actually referring to the German tier 5-7 battleships and especially the French tier 6-7 battleships, but yeah.

I also reiterate that I have in no way suggested the ship should be changed or complained that it's bad or not worth buying. My point is that this change came as a shock to me and that the marketing material needs to be updated so people know what they're actually getting.

I would certainly prefer if the Ta 152s were reskinned back to Stukas even with the same stats, but I understand -why- this change was made. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. But they need to follow through and make sure the promotional material reflects the actual product.

--Helms

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I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the well known missing catapult issue still plaguing the ship. At least the planes look like planes, even if they are the wrong planes. The empty trenches on the bow look plain bad to me. Admittedly though, if it says stuka on the label and it ain't got stukas, something needs adjusted, either the promo material or preferably the plane model.

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23 minutes ago, SuperCustodiam said:

Ta-152: Purpose-built high altitude interceptors that are just navalised for carrier use because why exactly? Like, Fw-190's would have made more sense than this.

Ugh, this must have been set-up by the same guy that put J5Ns on the Hakuruyu for the same dumb reason: a high altitude interceptor that is for some reason navalised because why not it looks cool.

I swear, the whole IV-VI-VIII-X matchmaking scheme is all to blame for this as they have to balance aircraft carriers into just 4 tiers is just ridiculous. As such, they can only use 4 eras of naval aircraft to put on their aircraft carriers. If this was a tier VII premium aircraft carrier we wouldn't have this problem of having hypothetical converted aircraft; same deal with the Kaga.

I really hope that when they add the Hiryu, Essex, Taiho, ect back in to the tech trees, that they git rid of this stupid IV-VI-VIII-X matchmaking setup. Trying to squeeze all these aircraft carriers into just 4 tiers and both accurately represent them and have them be balanced is impossible.

WG is not likely to go back to off tiers for CVs. One of the big reasons for doing then even tiers from 4-10 is that there are now 4 queues for CVs instead of 7. Unless CV levels stay high, only even tier CVs are here to stay.

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31 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

Hey guys just confirm, yes these are marketing materials and the GZ does not have Stukas.  This ship has been in development for quite some time, we're excited that's released for everyone, and are very interested in what you guys think of it now.

I've posted more detailed feedback elsewhere, but short version: GZ feels godawful compared to the other 3 premium CVs. Torps do almost no damage with non-existent flood chances, much less the ability to stack floods for DOT damage. I can't make the bombs work at all, and the rockets are "okay," just so slow and inconsistent I can't rely on them at all.

LOVE Enterprise, Kaga, and Saipan. Extremely disappointed in GZ after all the nerfs it's taken. 

Actually, attached screenshot pretty much sums my experience up. I KNOW I can do better with GZ, but it FEELS far, far worse than the others:

1808930845_Screenshot(109).thumb.png.c8e5af275d5ec1514612bf2d7bf215f5.png

Edited by TheWhiteRaven
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Graf Zeppelin was always tier 8, and people dreaded the Stuka's pre-0.8.0.

On the other hand, apparently the TA-152 did have a medium altitude and ground attack model planned (Though how a short winged, unpressurized Ta-152 is any different than a Fw-190D, is beyond me, blame the Germans.)

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