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SJ_Sailer

Is Demolition Expert really worth 3 points for 2%?

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I mean you can get Superintendent for the same 3 points and that gives you a full extra consumable.  2% just does not seem like a whole lot of advantage going from 14% to 16% Fire Chance.

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Not typically, but there are exceptions to every rule. 

For example, demo expert on Conqueror is questionable at best since her fire chance is already sky high.  But if you were running a lower tier ship that had little use for superintendent and wanted to bump the fire chance (ie: Omaha), then maybe.

 

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For some ships with high RoF the return is a lot higher. I think for the Harugumo/Kitakaze/Akizuki you get something like a 25% increase in fires, which due to how DCP works means a >25% in fire damage. 

For some other ships (i.e. Zao) there’s really no other decent 3pt skill. You don’t usually make use of superintendent because your health pool is too low to use that fourth heal and it’s not like your going to be spamming hydro or def AA all game.

That being said, I have dropped it on a lot of my cruisers (except Wooster I think? Need to double check) and I don’t use it on any of my DDs except the IJN gunboats. Fires are only truly effective against BBs and rn they get so many crutches tools to deal with it (DCP + modules + flags) that a 2% increase in fire chance isnt very influential.

Edited by Gavroche_

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Correct, there isn’t much advantage for going from 14-16, however for low fire chances, the skill is more valuable.  For example, if you use the skill on a ship with a 20% fire chance, you only gain 10% more fires.  If you use it on a ship with a low chance, say, 4% (DDs mostly) then you increase your fire chance by 50%

Edited by Horama

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28 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

I mean you can get Superintendent for the same 3 points and that gives you a full extra consumable.  2% just does not seem like a whole lot of advantage going from 14% to 16% Fire Chance.

You're looking at it the wrong way. Going from 14 to 16 is a 14% increase in the base fire chance per shell.

Now the question is what is the rate of fire.

Now you can make a determination. It all comes down to how many shells do you put on target to see if that 14% increase benefits you

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2 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

You're looking at it the wrong way. Going from 14 to 16 is a 14% increase in the base fire chance per shell.

Now the question is what is the rate of fire.

Now you can make a determination. It all comes down to how many shells do you put on target to see if that 14% increase benefits you

Going to my other thread, would you put it in a New Orleans or Yorck?

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DE is useful for certain ships and rates of fire.

 

Personally, I don't see them of value with the USN CAs.  The fire chance and reload is nothing special.  I don't even bother with DE on Des Memes because the balance of 203mm HE and 5.5 second base reload time negates the need for DE.

 

I can very much see Gunboat DDs, Atlanta with the high ROF and low fire chances taking DE, especially to help mitigate the IFHE fire chance penalty.

 

Very spammy Cruiser guns such as on CLs and above average reload like Hindenburg, DE can be useful.  Your roll the dice more, so why not improve the chances?  Most especially to mitigate the IFHE fire chance penalty.

 

Then there's the other end of the spectrum, the high fire chance ships.

French and IJN Cruisers have above normal fire chances for their HE shells and you can make that even better.  Zao and Henri IV frequently hold cookouts.  Lord help you and you are a BB player getting attacked by them at range, and your aim isn't good.

 

But Battleships have such high fire chances like around the 30% or even 40-something % that DE is a total waste on them... If you are intent only on Main Batteries.  Some BB players doing Secondary Builds use DE to help offset certain negatives.

- Bismarck-class 105mm guns have a low HE Pen and some take DE to help make them fire starters because they don't want to devote the 4 pts for IFHE.

- Hell, some Bismarck-class take IFHE and DE.

- Later tiers of French BBs loaded with low HE Pen 100mm guns adopt these practices also.

- Some GK users will use DE with or without IFHE to really make the Secondaries even meaner.  The question is how much you want to devote to it.

- Another consideration is whether the ROF is good enough, i.e. 3 seconds or less, to merit skipping out on BFT and take DE for the Secondaries.  Or some don't do that and take BOS or SI.

 

Etc.  Lots of cases I'm leaving out.  DE will be useful for some and not as much for others.

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The higher tier you go, it becomes less and less worth it.   Ships become more and more fire resistant, and that isn't including the addition of skills and modules.  Of course the higher you go, the more likely you are to face someone who has said modules and skills.  Not to mention skills that reduce time on fire. 

 

The skill just increases the CHANCE you will start a fire.   Generally speaking, and skills that don't rely on RNG are better than RNG skills.  

 

its an OK skill for mid to low tier cruisers.   SI is better if you have a heal or radar.  Not to bad of a skill for DDs either, but there are a lot of other skills i would take first in a DD.  

Edited by Frederick_The_Great
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14 minutes ago, SJ_Sailer said:

Going to my other thread, would you put it in a New Orleans or Yorck?

I'd probably look to boost AA first in this meta,

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IMHO, Superintendent allows you more staying power that will allow you to do more than an additional 2% damage, plus it allows you even more additional benefits than the additional 2% additional damage. 

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DE is most optimal when used on ships with a high rate of fire and a low fire chance. Some ship examples could be: Atlanta, Akizuki, Cleveland, and Worcester. So it essentially boils down to DDs and IFHE CLs unless you're going for something like a min-max DPM build. Ships with high fire chance and slower rates of fire like the Zao or Conqueror see diminishing returns from DE.

Edited by Cruiser_Chicago

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1 hour ago, SJ_Sailer said:

I mean you can get Superintendent for the same 3 points and that gives you a full extra consumable.  2% just does not seem like a whole lot of advantage going from 14% to 16% Fire Chance.

On each gun. So If you have a lot of guns then heck yeah it adds up nicely. 

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the higher the tier the lower in the inherent risk to catching fire, at tier 10 their ia an automatic 50% fire reduction chance built in to every ship, so at tier 10, that is nerfed to 1%

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1 hour ago, Gavroche_ said:

For some other ships (i.e. Zao) there’s really no other decent 3pt skill. You don’t usually make use of superintendent because your health pool is too low to use that fourth heal and it’s not like your going to be spamming hydro or def AA all game.

Zao (alongside Mino and maybe Worc) is one of the ships where you go SE + SI to get the most health possible, since her health pool is one of her main limiting factor.

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Its depends, for a batleship and some dd lines? No.

For any other class? (not the uk cruiser line of course) Oh hell yes, its a 2% more in ever shoot/drop you do.

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Consumables take minutes to reload. U be dead. Match might be over. 

+2% to lots of guns that reload in 4.5-20 seconds is priceless. 

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It is exponentially more effective the lower your base fire chance is, so it is usually a good choice on all gunboat DDs and all CLs which fire HE. It is questionable on CAs - it depends on how much HE vs AP you fire and the base fire chance. I would put it on Zao for sure, maybe Henri IV and Hindenburg, but the Moskva and DM probably are better off with either an AA skill (DM/Salem) or Basics of Survivability (Moskva). 

It is almost useless on a Battleship - you are better off with Basics of Survivability and Superintendent (you really want BOTH). 

Note that the fire resistance coefficient is applied regardless, so the relative benefit of DE (or loss from IFHE) is unchanged. If you are doing significant fire damage before hand (which most of the above ships do) then DE will help. 

Edited by MaxL_1023

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1 hour ago, Ace_04 said:

Not typically, but there are exceptions to every rule. 

For example, demo expert on Conqueror is questionable at best since her fire chance is already sky high.  But if you were running a lower tier ship that had little use for superintendent and wanted to bump the fire chance (ie: Omaha), then maybe.

 

Since it's per shell, it really on benefits ships with high rates of fire.

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Best BB build always involves Survibility Expert + DE. :cap_like:  last stand is useful too for those times they get your engine.

 

DE is great on British CLs with secondaries to help boost their fire chance.  I like to announce in all chat “+1 to anyone who gives me arsonist” when I start a match in Mino.  Haven’t gotten it yet :cap_haloween:

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3 minutes ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

I would not recommend it for heavy cruisers or BBs

I did not think so either, but then saw this for NO:

 

image.thumb.png.72b08e80aa5dac933a5bcffc6290dab4.png

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1 hour ago, Sweetsie said:

the higher the tier the lower in the inherent risk to catching fire, at tier 10 their ia an automatic 50% fire reduction chance built in to every ship, so at tier 10, that is nerfed to 1%

I'll tell you now, mega HE / Fire Cruisers like French & IJN Cruisers aren't reduced to "1%" fire chances even against Tier X threats.  They get cooked just fine.

 

A Tier VII Myoko is perfectly capable of burning down a Tier IX Missouri / Iowa just fine.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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5 minutes ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

Well it's wrong

The way things are now other than CE and SI, there are not a lot of 3 or 4 point skills I am really pysched about for CA.  I suppose BFT has its uses for AA but I would not pay for MFAA or AFT.  I do not think I am skilled enough to get the most out of RPF.

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