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HobGoblin0

AP bomb reality check

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I was attacking a fuso and an Iron Duke with my ryujo and regularly getting one or both bombs to over pen.  What?

 

We need a bit of a reality check on AP bombs.  I know how the penetration mechanics work, but it's a bomb for attacking capital ships.  And we're dropping them from a dive bomber onto the deck of a BB and they're over penetrating.  Consider that.  So you're telling me that the bomb went through the top deck, through 3-4 stories of steel interior, through a steel hull, and out the bottom without exploding?  What exactly are these bombs designed for then?   Attacking whales that hide under battleships?  I guarantee the bomb is going to arm and explode at some point.  If nothing else when it hits the steel/water interface at the hull, it's going to explode and do a god awful amount of damage.  Not 761 damage!  It's a damn 1000lb steel tube, even if it completely penetrates the hull and never explodes, that's still a 1+ foot hole in the bottom of the ship.  There's no amount of flex seal that's fixing that, so maybe I should get a flooding?

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Were you accelerating? From what I've heard, aircraft speed changes the penetration. Honestly, I just feel like AP bombs are too unreliable and wonky.

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Further, an overpen might mean you're hitting an extremity. The bombs don't go straight down.... even with a perfect drop at mid height, RNG might send them off to the side.

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It doesn't matter.  A fuso drafts ~10M which means deck to keel shes about 40-50 feet of steel decks and machinery.  And at the edge of the deck is armor belt that's 300mm thick horizontally so even if they just clip the side or bounce funny it's actually more likely that they will explode inside the ship.  And they aren't like cvs.  They have no extremities.  They're 1920's battleships designed to slug it out with other surface ship.  There's wasn't even any consideration given to dive bomber attacks when they were designed.  The  Iron Duke is pretty much equivalent or close to it.  You're talking at least 6+ inches of steel deck, and then the water, which at that speed, would be like hitting concrete.  There's no way any bomb that hits the deck is going through without causing significant damage.  

 

WG is using it's maths like we're talking about shooting superstructure with guns.  The whole point of dive bombing is that there is a lot of vertical speed and very little horizontal motion.

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If ap bombs take the most amount of skill to use(angle of attack, speed of attack, lack of chance of fires) then it should have the highest alpha damage out of all the other bombers. But no give most of it to the midways HE bombs instead. 

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If you want a penetrating hit from an AP bomb, then you pretty much HAVE to hit either the citadel or a turret. Yes, Fuso and Iron Duke are older designs and they were built before all-or-nothing armor became commonplace, but that doesn't mean that their deck armor was enough to arm the bomb before it passed through the hull bottom or out the side. On Fuso, for example, if you hit fore or aft of the main guns then the only thing between the bomb and the ship's internals is a 25mm deck. Then it passes through the model relatively unimpeded until it hits the 40mm hull bottom, which it is also very likely to pen. Iron Duke is especially problematic because its CITADEL ROOF is a mere 25mm, followed by a 30mm hull bottom. I'm not even sure if hitting the citadel dead on would result in more than an overpen in that case.

It may be an extreme example, but a famous one IRL is the first Tallboy that hit Tirpitz passing straight through the bow without detonating. So in terms of penetration they work just fine. I will agree that they could use a bit of a buff to damage when they do land those massive citadel hits.

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On 4/13/2019 at 4:41 AM, Landsraad said:

Iron Duke is especially problematic because its CITADEL ROOF is a mere 25mm, followed by a 30mm hull bottom. I'm not even sure if hitting the citadel dead on would result in more than an overpen in that case.

So wait... you're saying that If I dropped a bomb through the magazine, engine room, or turret, it would go through the top, bottom, and all intervening decks and do a minimal amount of damage?  That's like saying I could shoot a beer can through your engine block and cause minimal damage.

 

On 4/11/2019 at 11:00 PM, HMS_Formidable said:

AP dive-bomb overpens were quite common.

Here's a couple from the Stuka attack on HMS Illustrious

The overpen you're using as an example, armed and detonated outside the hull causing flooding and fires.  And that's against a CV, which is completely different topside configuration, and pretty much just a cruiser under the flight deck.

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On 4/11/2019 at 10:12 PM, HobGoblin0 said:

I was attacking a fuso and an Iron Duke with my ryujo and regularly getting one or both bombs to over pen.  What?

 

We need a bit of a reality check on AP bombs.  I know how the penetration mechanics work, but it's a bomb for attacking capital ships.  And we're dropping them from a dive bomber onto the deck of a BB and they're over penetrating.  Consider that.  So you're telling me that the bomb went through the top deck, through 3-4 stories of steel interior, through a steel hull, and out the bottom without exploding?  What exactly are these bombs designed for then?   Attacking whales that hide under battleships?  I guarantee the bomb is going to arm and explode at some point.  If nothing else when it hits the steel/water interface at the hull, it's going to explode and do a god awful amount of damage.  Not 761 damage!  It's a damn 1000lb steel tube, even if it completely penetrates the hull and never explodes, that's still a 1+ foot hole in the bottom of the ship.  There's no amount of flex seal that's fixing that, so maybe I should get a flooding?

There is an old saying used in Hollywood movies about ww2 and from my understanding it came from some salty chiefs. "You know what happens when you drop bombs on a battleship? You put a hole in it. Do you know what happens when you drop torps into a battleship? No more battleship."

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Personally I'm not real good with AP Dive Bombers.  They take a lot more finesse to make right.  Which is why I'm not fond of my Rework Enterprise while I love Lexington far more.  However, that said, I know it's a skill issue on my behalf.  Some know how to work AP DBs just fine.

 

An example of a well executed AP DB attack, especially against a target type highly vulnerable to vertical attacks.

 

AP DB attacks that get Citadel hits are devastating because Repair Party isn't going to get much of that damage back compared to regular HE / AP Penetrations or Fires being set.  Repair Party can heal back 100% of Fire damage.  Citadel damage, not quite.

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Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I do agree that AP bombs in general need to be buffed. Their regular pen damage is really low compared to HE bombers, and landing citadels is not always obvious as bombs that miss the citadel tend to overpen or bounce. Not to mention they are useless against DDs.

Landing citadels IS useful to prevent battleships from healing up, but that's most useful in the beginning of the match ... and striking capital ships at the start is mega risky due to their AA support.

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