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Target_1

Kurfurst vs. Frederick the Great

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The Kurfurst is the tier X German BB and the Frederick the Great is the tier IX...

but when you pull up their stats... they are almost the same ship.  other than a few more hit points on the Kurfurst.

My question is, what, if any, real differences are there between the two ships?

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Honestly I really could not tell the difference except compared to the previous ships I found them disappointing given their long range gunnery is painful.

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20K more HP is nothing to sneeze at.

As for other differences, the G.K. uses triple turrets, instead of the twin mounts, your 105mm secondaries are traded out for 128mm with a small gain in range, AA is a bit better, and some other things I can't recall off the top of my head.

It's a huge jump forwards. The Freddy is painful to play, but the G.K. is one of my favorite BBs to play. Go secondary build and pick the right moment to push, and it will pay dividends.

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GK benefits largley from IFHE secondaries, and FdG does not. If heavily invested into, GKs secondaries are MUCH more potent

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2 minutes ago, _1204_ said:

GK benefits largley from IFHE secondaries, and FdG does not. If heavily invested into, GKs secondaries are MUCH more potent

Actually that's not as true anymore. Remember, FdG's 105s got buffed to have 1/4 pen.

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20 minutes ago, Target_1 said:

The Kurfurst is the tier X German BB and the Frederick the Great is the tier IX...

but when you pull up their stats... they are almost the same ship.  other than a few more hit points on the Kurfurst.

My question is, what, if any, real differences are there between the two ships?

Don't listen to the above posters (except JediMasterDraco).  The FDG was recently buffed and is currently a powerhouse when played correctly.

Quite a few differences, but since the FDG was buffed the two ships are much closer in design philosophy and playstyle.  The GK has:

  • Same gun types on both, but 12 guns on GK vs 8 on the FDG, though the FDG has faster reload
  • 15" armor belt on GK vs 12" on the FDG
  • 6" turtleback on GK vs 4" on the FDG
  • Both have poor deck armor and will be easily penetrated by AP dive bombs
  • GK has higher caliber and slightly higher DPM secondaries.  GK's base secondaries (no IFHE) are also better vs T10 cruisers
  • Both secondary setups break the >32mm penetration barrier with IFHE, though personally I do not find it necessary or worth the investment
  • GK is gigantic and visible from space with a very slow ruddershift
  • FDG is also large (slightly shorter than the Montana), but definitely more maneuverable feeling than GK
  • Both have crappy main battery firing angles
  • Both have excellent secondary battery firing angles
  • Both have crappy TDS, but hydro to make up for it
  • Both have short main battery firing range

In short, though people will be surprised I say this, the FDG is a stronger T9 ship than the GK is a T10 ship.  Seriously, when played correctly the FDG is absurdly strong.  But both are super fun to play and well balanced ships in my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, Ranari said:

Don't listen to the above posters (except JediMasterDraco).  The FDG was recently buffed and is currently a powerhouse when played correctly.

Quite a few differences, but since the FDG was buffed the two ships are much closer in design philosophy and playstyle.  The GK has:

  • Same gun types on both, but 12 guns on GK vs 8 on the FDG, though the FDG has faster reload
  • 15" armor belt on GK vs 12" on the FDG
  • 6" turtleback on GK vs 4" on the FDG
  • Both have poor deck armor and will be easily penetrated by AP dive bombs
  • GK has higher caliber and slightly higher DPM secondaries.  GK's base secondaries (no IFHE) are also better vs T10 cruisers
  • Both secondary setups break the >32mm penetration barrier with IFHE, though personally I do not find it necessary or worth the investment
  • GK is gigantic and visible from space with a very slow ruddershift
  • FDG is also large (slightly shorter than the Montana), but definitely more maneuverable feeling than GK
  • Both have crappy main battery firing angles
  • Both have excellent secondary battery firing angles
  • Both have crappy TDS, but hydro to make up for it
  • Both have short main battery firing range

In short, though people will be surprised I say this, the FDG is a stronger T9 ship than the GK is a T10 ship.  Seriously, when played correctly the FDG is absurdly strong.  But both are super fun to play and well balanced ships in my opinion.

This ^ 

 

17 minutes ago, _1204_ said:

GK benefits largley from IFHE secondaries, and FdG does not. If heavily invested into, GKs secondaries are MUCH more potent

Don't think this is true anymore .

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A few little known facts:

FDG also has an 80mm armor plating covering the entire amidships deck. Most of its deck is completely immune to cruiser HE (even against 12" guns on supercruisers). GK is covered in 50mm deck, which means IFHE Henri, Hindenburg, and every supercruiser can pen it with HE.

The difference in belt armor is largely superficial. Both BBs take massive damage when broadside. An angled 12" belt is just as good as a 16" belt.

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23 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

Actually that's not as true anymore. Remember, FdG's 105s got buffed to have 1/4 pen.

 

7 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Don't think this is true anymore .

Oh, didnt know that. So they both benefit now?

Edited by _1204_

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Doesn't H Class BBs have 18.9 inch and 20 inch guns ? Why not upgun the Kurfurst, the 18.9 inch is actually 480mm which means it will laugh at angling armor.  

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3 minutes ago, alex08060 said:

Doesn't H Class BBs have 18.9 inch and 20 inch guns ? Why not upgun the Kurfurst, the 18.9 inch is actually 480mm which means it will laugh at angling armor.  

Depends on which H-class you mean. Off the top of my head they were  H-39, H-41, H-42, H-43, and H-44. The ones you are thinking of are H-42, H-43 and H-44. FDG is more or less both H-39 and H-41 depending on guns and GK is roughly H-41 widened to accommodate triple turrets instead of the (German) preferred twins. That is part of why they are so similar. It's down to being iterative improvements to the base Bismarck class design. The US standard type battleships were also like this, effectively Colorado is a Tennessee with twin 16 inch guns, Tennessee is a New Mexico without the low mounted casemate secondaries, New Mexico is a Pennsylvania with a clipper bow, etc., you get the idea. Nagato, Amagi, Kii, Tosa and the #13 class were also a similar design family. It's actually a fairly common practice.

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26 minutes ago, alex08060 said:

Doesn't H Class BBs have 18.9 inch and 20 inch guns ? Why not upgun the Kurfurst, the 18.9 inch is actually 480mm which means it will laugh at angling armor.  

Because no ship can have guns equal to or larger than Yamato.

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The great elector vs me?   I think it is pretty obvious who is superior. 

 

 

 

Spoiler

on a serious note, the GK is a better boat.  Always top tier.  more guns, more health.  Tankier.  better secondaries. better AA.

 

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1 hour ago, alex08060 said:

Doesn't H Class BBs have 18.9 inch and 20 inch guns ? Why not upgun the Kurfurst, the 18.9 inch is actually 480mm which means it will laugh at angling armor.  

The H-Class never existed to begin with.  Bismarck-class was as advanced as the Kriegsmarine got in their Battleships.  Anything else is paper napkin [edited].

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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3 hours ago, _1204_ said:

 

Oh, didnt know that. So they both benefit now?

I think so I have both ships but I havent played a lot of Freddy but I think it was much better when I played last . 

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30 minutes ago, clammboy said:

I think so I have both ships but I havent played a lot of Freddy but I think it was much better when I played last . 

Yeah, it and Izumo seems like they get buffed every other update:Smile-_tongue: Have mine... May load up IFHE secondaries since it got buffs. Dunno if I have enough 19 point capts to throw them at projects like that though

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The H-Class never existed to begin with.  Bismarck-class was as advanced as the Kriegsmarine got in their Battleships.  Anything else is paper napkin [edited].

Consider me a guy that doesn't care about how real the ships are, but I do respect your perspective. Would you have put the Bismarck at t10? Curious as to how the tech trees work out. Real ships only would be close to impossible to balance, no? Thanks.

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10 hours ago, _1204_ said:

Oh, didn't know that. So they both benefit now?

Yes, last fall.  FDG's 105mm now utilize 1/4 pen.  Radically changes its secondary performance.  It also got a MB reload buff with it.

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GK also has the legendary mod. Secondary ifhe zerg bote ftw! He who stands with me shall be my brother! Onwards to valhalla! :fish_viking:

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