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Herr_Reitz

DDs who hunt carriers...

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It's my OPINION, that is, I am opining about this, have no facts, only observations... but those DDs who purposely hunt the enemy's carriers are doing their team a dis-service. In most cases where a dd finds and sinks me, our team wins. 

Unless of course I'm the last ship sailing. 

You noticed this? Would you agree with this? tiafyc

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Well, if you know how terrible a Le Terrible runs into a two Midway game...... just trying best to trade with a CV.

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12 minutes ago, mohawkdriver said:

Not sure how sinking an enemy CV does the team a disservice...

Because those dds are spending an awful lot of time 'flanking' along the map border, not capping, scouting or playing anywhere near where the actual battle is taking place.

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20 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

It's my OPINION, that is, I am opining about this, have no facts, only observations... but those DDs who purposely hunt the enemy's carriers are doing their team a dis-service. In most cases where a dd finds and sinks me, our team wins. 

Unless of course I'm the last ship sailing. 

You noticed this? Would you agree with this? tiafyc

100% Agree. Hunting any particular ship away from the objectives/lines is typically ill-advised baring wounded DD's or Spammy RN CL's.

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14 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

It's my OPINION, that is, I am opining about this, have no facts, only observations... but those DDs who purposely hunt the enemy's carriers are doing their team a dis-service. In most cases where a dd finds and sinks me, our team wins. 

Unless of course I'm the last ship sailing. 

You noticed this? Would you agree with this? tiafyc

Maybe, but probably not.  I'm not suggesting that CV hunting is the most productive thing DD players can do. Some DDs are better suited to hunt CVs than others.  Some players/DDs aren't very good at playing the support role and they are better off going hunting in the backfield. 

Just now, Lert said:

Because those dds are spending an awful lot of time 'flanking' along the map borderline not camping, scouting of playing anywhere nest where the actual battle is taking Palace.

Just now, _RC1138 said:

100% Agree. Hunting any particular ship away from the objectives/lines is typically ill-advised baring wounded DD's or Spammy RN CL's.

A DD is highly likely to get killed trying to play the objectives/support role.  They don't do your team any good dead.  Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't play objectives/spot, I'm saying the game isn't as simple as you guys are making it out to be.

 

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DD fails.

The team that sends DD's up the middle in the standard game mode on Two Brothers loses 95% of the time too, in my experience.  

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

Because those dds are spending an awful lot of time 'flanking' along the map border, not capping, scouting of playing anywhere near where the actual battle is taking place.

This ^^^

I've hunted a cv before in my DD, but not until I've taken care of business, usually late in the game (if I have any health left by then.)  I thought this only happened at low tiers, but so many people have purchased their ships now what was low tier strategies has moved up to higher tier play. 

I should also acknowledge that their are some "disgruntled" players out there who have a thing in for CV players, so hunting them seems to have become a priority for them.  After being focused by multiple carriers and forced to change their gameplay I sorta understand their frustration.

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7 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

A DD is highly likely to get killed trying to play the objectives/support role.

Only if played like a [edited]. Don't sit still in smoke in the first 3 minutes. Don't spam torps willy nilly. Don't rush a radar cruiser. Don't drop smoke at first combat. Basic. Stuff. I play DD's all the time and do not have a problem at all, even with the deluge of CV's. Don't play a DD like it's a Battleship OR a cruiser and you do fine. Almost all the complaints from DD's can be summed up with, "I want to have the output/longevity of a BB and the playstyle of a dancy cruiser without having to actually PLAY a BB or cruiser." It's a rogue. Play it like a rogue. Chasing a CV for 40+ km doesn't help your team anymore than dying in the first 3 minutes but at LEAST if you died in a knife fight in the middle you MIGHT take someone with you/do some damage on your way. But a DD chasing a CV around the map is basically just as useful as an AFK ship.

Edited by _RC1138
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18 minutes ago, mohawkdriver said:

Not sure how sinking an enemy CV does the team a disservice...

If the DD immediately sets out to hunt the CV down, it does a disservice in multiple ways.

Firstly, the DD is not going to go through the middle, they are going to sneak around the edges to avoid getting spotted.

This puts them out of range of enemy units, so they can't use their guns, and any torp hits would be pure luck.

This also prevents them from spotting many of the red team that they would normally spot if they stuck around in front of their allies, either attempting to cap or simply laying in wait.

Also, since DDs are relatively quick, even if going the long way around, the red DV's team mates will still be kind of close by.  And if the CV is hitting F3, that DD is likely to get annihilated by main battery fire and the CVs planes.

So even if the DD survives and sinks the red CV, they've not done any spotting, and they've not taken any opportunities to fire on the red team.  The DDs teammates take more damage and the red team lives a bit longer.

If the DD waits for the right opportunity, however, taking out the CV is a good plan.

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I think it depends.

In a game with 2 CVs on the red team, trying to cap or spot can quickly lead to death and more so in high tiers with lots of radar. So, in those cases, it isn't always bad to try and sneak around to see if you can find someone who is hiding in the back.

I just did it in my last two Kamikaze R games and we won both games. Maybe the team was just good but I did spot, do 70K+ and 50K+ dmg and I think I also capped.

No two games are the same and it is hard to say that one thing will never work/is a bad idea (ok there might be some things that will get you killed every time for no gain, but there aren't many).

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39 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

It's my OPINION, that is, I am opining about this, have no facts, only observations... but those DDs who purposely hunt the enemy's carriers are doing their team a dis-service. In most cases where a dd finds and sinks me, our team wins. 

Unless of course I'm the last ship sailing. 

You noticed this? Would you agree with this? tiafyc

Old RTs style, it was beneficial to CV snipe or hunt down a CV early.

Now it is not.

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14 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Only if played like a [edited]. Don't sit still in smoke in the first 3 minutes. Don't spam torps willy nilly. Don't rush a radar cruiser. Don't drop smoke at first combat. Basic. Stuff. I play DD's all the time and do not have a problem at all, even with the deluge of CV's. Don't play a DD like it's a Battleship OR a cruiser and you do fine. Almost all the complaints from DD's can be summed up with, "I want to have the output/longevity of a BB and the playstyle of a dancy cruiser without having to actually PLAY a BB or cruiser." It's a rogue. Play it like a rogue. Chasing a CV for 40+ km doesn't help your team anymore than dying in the first 3 minutes but at LEAST if you died in a knife fight in the middle you MIGHT take someone with you/do some damage on your way. But a DD chasing a CV around the map is basically just as useful as an AFK ship.

Let's not forget that most high tier CVs as well posses quite a bit of deck armor, shattering HE DD calibers and making the process of killing one with guns a pretty lengthy task.

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This observation is the state of the current game.  Where one gimmick or another compels players to "do stuff inconsistent with the roles and responsibilities history created for them"......  Carriers are/were  just the most recent meta gimmick.  There are more coming in the near future....

After all this is a FPS and if a single DD wants to wander around on the fringes, isn't that the point of a FPS?  First-Person-Shooter is one person.  Randoms are ranked or Clan battles and team work is purely optional......  Heck, Ranked battles are FPS as well for the most part and only in a few of the matches (all 76 of them) did the "teams" even attempt to act like teams...  We don't have an in-game VOIP communications method to "talk to each other".......  Typing takes too long.

OP, what you have observed is what happens a lot:  people are playing a FPS and doing benefits themselves.........which is the entire goal of a FPS !  

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3 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Old RTs style, it was beneficial to CV snipe or hunt down a CV early.

Now it is not.

No.... It wasn't. Because it took too long and if the CV had enough awareness to be worth killing in the first place he would know he id spotted, find the DD, and kill it. Then he would probably tell him he is bad in chat for making that stupid play.

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

Let's not forget that most high tier CVs as well posses quite a bit of deck armor, shattering HE DD calibers and making the process of killing one with guns a pretty lengthy task.

Also true as is the fact CV's will intrinsically RUN away from a DD, not constantly try to turn broadside to get off salvos, meaning landing torps is significantly harder as the target is both moving away, decreasing the effective range of your torps AND presenting a smaller target so even if you do land hits, it will be minuscule.

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For the most part, the thought that chasing a CV in a DD is a disservice is accurate...however, as with anything there are exceptions. If I'm going to a chase a CV, it's more of an end-goal where I'm making a point to stay close to the red team's flank so I can spot and EFFECTIVELY torpedo enemy ships (not just throwing them at maximum range from the edge of the map). Once that's done and I've rolled around the flank, I will chase the CV provided that I think the rest of my team has the battle under control. 

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As much as i dont like the current CVs, a single ship going all the way around the map just to kill a single enemy ship is just dumb, you spend too much time that could be better used elsewhere. Not to mention that many times (if not most) the DD gets killed before killing the enemy CV.

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10 minutes ago, _RC1138 said:

Chasing a CV for 40+ km doesn't help your team anymore than dying in the first 3 minutes but at LEAST if you died in a knife fight in the middle you MIGHT take someone with you/do some damage on your way. But a DD chasing a CV around the map is basically just as useful as an AFK ship.

You're assuming that DD player is taking someone with them, they probably aren't.  What's most likely happening is that DD playing the objectives is getting spotted by radar or planes, focus fired and killed or driven back, with nothing in return.  At least that flanking DD is spotting half the enemy team.  Personally, I think a DD player should do what is most appropriate in the given situation.  More times than not that will be trying to play the objectives/spotting...but not always.

Here's a great video on how not to chase CVs.  Its a fun watch if you can stomach all the bad decisions from both sides.

 

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44 minutes ago, mohawkdriver said:

Not sure how sinking an enemy CV does the team a disservice...

As a DD if you are hunting the cv you are not capping points. Usually not spotting targets, fighting off enemy DDs etc etc.

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In the IJN DDs from tier 4-6, Hunting CVs and getting behind the lines is the norm. Benefits to the fleet

  • Spotting
  • redirecting red fleet fire/attention to chase the DD hunting the CV.
  • More DMG for others in the fleet because the above conditions are in play. Rather then the DD hoarding DMG.

Downside

  • In some team situations, Hunting the CV is only one secondary element that is useful if say the red CV is killing everyone.
  • Usually its the failure of other classes which determines a win or a loss.
  • The torp IJN DD is only a supporting role, it can be seen if the red CV is sunk or not in some cases doesn't influence the ending of a match.

Bottom line, if the main cast  of ships fail to do their job to secure the win , then the role of the DD hunter will be scrutinize hard. 

Its a good tactic/idea when ALL elements pull their weight.

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7 minutes ago, Kebobstuzov said:

No.... It wasn't. Because it took too long and if the CV had enough awareness to be worth killing in the first place he would know he id spotted, find the DD, and kill it. Then he would probably tell him he is bad in chat for making that stupid play.

I didn't say it was a good tactic for a destroyer to hunt down the carrier early.

I said it was beneficial. 

90% of the time,  the destroyer died.

Mid to late game is when the hunt was on.

Most CV snipes failed.

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Just now, Slimeball91 said:

You're assuming that DD player is taking someone with them, they probably aren't. 

[edited] are [edited]. A dumb DD player losing a knife fight is NO better equipped to influence a match than the same dumb DD player chasing a CV for 40+ km. But holding skill constant, the DD is ALWAYS better partaking in the main fight: if he's a [edited], a [edited] at the front distracts enemy fire (if only temporarily) while chasing a CV he will do nothing the entire match. A Great DD player will kill enemy DD's, distract the enemy, Cap, and leave areas of the map too dangerous for the enemy to enter, while that same player chasing the CV MIGHT by the end of the match have killed 1, unimportant enemy. No, a DD should NEVER go on the long hunt unless there is NOTHING else for them to do... like maybe an Asashino in a match where there's no BB's, and everyone one the enemy team has radar... MAYBE then it makes sense for him to abandon the line to chase the CV. Maybe.

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34 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

 

A DD is highly likely to get killed trying to play the objectives/support role.  They don't do your team any good dead.  Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't play objectives/spot, I'm saying the game isn't as simple as you guys are making it out to be.

 

I didn't see much CV hunting before the rework, now i see much more of it.

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Best CV hunts are opportunistic hunts...when you find yourself in the vicinity of a CV who is too close to the objective you are working on.

You are working on securing a cap and spot an out of position CV.  Don’t chase him, but ambush if you can or spot him for friendlies to kill. 

Anytime you take your ship out of the fight, any type of ship, it is a disservice to your team unless you have a good tactical reason (healing up, repositioning for a crossfire, or going dark when outnumbered)

 

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